Why did Lagi die?

Panzer Dragoon
41

[quote=“Team Andromeda”]

Hey you forget the eye movments :slight_smile:

I love the faces/gesture she’s pulls when she 1st looks out of the cell window to see the oncoming Dragonmares, and then when she 1st see the Dragon. You don’t need character to speak or wave thier arms around to convey emotion.

But thats just me ,[/quote]

I will have to whip myself later for daring to speak ill of anything PD-related… but to be totally honest her expression in that intro sequence… at that very moment you mention in fact… put me rather in mind of the creature expressions from Black & White.
In other words… it looked to me like she was observing the Dragonmares tearing up the city and then was momentarily distracted by her own breaking wind.

But truth be told… I couldn’t really give a f**k less about that. I love the series basically for being bloody beautiful rail-shooters. That sums up the most of it. Whether expression is truly portrayed in cut-scenes is but a minor matter (though I’ve got to say… it was a greater success in terms of facial expression than either of the Shenmue games)…

42

[quote=“lordcraymen”]PDO is very unlikely to run on the XBOX360. I guess that’s mainly because japanese developers always try to reinvent the wheel and don’t use as much compatible middleware as US based studios. I think that has mainly to do with the lack of japanese documentation, japanese developers just can’t read an english manual. for most japanese english is like latin.

I wish they would put in more energy in good gameplay and pimping an already existing engine, than reinventing something that has been done before…[/quote]

What thjey used to make the game is irrelivant once the game has been compiled - if it runs on Xbox hardware and the XBOX can be emulated perfectly at some stage then it will run.

Like the people who programmed EPSXE for PC… it runs almost every PSX game, and all it does is find “equivelant” processors in your PC that can do the same task as the original processors inside the PlayStation.
;p Which is sort of how the Xbox emu on 360 does.

[quote=“Gehpnaet”]

I dare you to give two or three good examples to prove your point.[/quote]

Calm down there sparky.

[quote=“Kadamose”]
And though it might be true that Panzer Dragoon was originally a well-thought-out rail shooter[/quote]

It might be true?
Are you sure that you played the first two games… ?
Because I would say that it IS true.

43

I wasn’t attacking you or anything.I was just asking for some examples.:slight_smile:

44

Of course, In theory it CAN be emulated. But that doesn’t mean that it WILL be emulated for a couple of resons, of which most are money related.

45

Well Gehn, I don’t see how my point is* provable*, it’s just an opinion about other people’s opinions after all. Especially when you use words like “vivid” since I really can’t know what makes something vivid for you. But if it’s examples you want I’ll give it a try…

http://www.panzerdragoon.net/screenshots/images/pds_girigiri_excavation_site_4_screenshot_03.jpg

http://www.panzerdragoon.net/screenshots/images/pdo_screenshot_57.jpg

From TWotA’s screenshot section, of course the Saga shots are from emulation so they may not accurately reflect your color association. But that brings up another point, I’ve heard people say they thought Saturn had a washed-out look compared to Playstation at the time, and on some TV’s it 's video output was especially subdued.

http://www.panzerdragoon.net/screenshots/images/pdo_screenshot_50.jpg

http://www.panzerdragoon.net/screenshots/images/pds_girigiri_arachnoth_screenshot_03.jpg

The series has always employed some pretty raucous color schemes in places, I think it’s because there’s so much more detail and things start to look semi-realistic in Orta that perhaps some people have trouble resolving the alienness of the vision with a sense of place and believablity? That’s actually one of the more impressive aspects of Orta for me, the balance of vibrancy and subtlety in most areas. On the other hand I think it could have been better served with a more impressionistic approach to the backgrounds, less actual detail and more filtering and shader trickery.

http://www.panzerdragoon.net/screenshots/images/pd_pc_screenshot_04.jpg

http://www.panzerdragoon.net/screenshots/images/pdo_screenshot_52.jpg

And speaking of impressionism, I really think that’s what the Saturn games had going for them most of all, everything was reduced to the most basic necessities of communication, primary form and color. It left more room for the player to fill in the details with their own imagination and see what they wanted it to be. But what really set the games apart after that was the subtle and organic animation, something Orta retains in full.

I really can’t relate to complaints about the dragon designs at all, it is of course purely preference anyway. I don’t see how anyone thinks Orta’s designs are anymore different than any of the other games are from each other. Base Wing has more obvious similarity to the Blue Dragon and the starting form of Saga than they do to any of the Zwei forms. It’s got claws just like concept art for the Blue Dragon… the Saga dragon has hooves actually. But all 4 games have an equally unique style in that respect.

In fact it seems to me that Saga’s dragons are the most alien to the whole series. Heavy Wing is definitely one of the strangest in later forms, but Glide Wing has much in common with other pure-type designs throughout the series and some features that are very reminiscent of Atolm. I have a memory of someone taking exception to the claws on the wings of Base Wing and even that has precedent in some of the Saga forms, I don’t have any images of the forms though.

Ahh well, I know you hate long posts Gehn but you did “dare” me so you don’t get to complain about it… :anjou_love:

I obviously have my own nitpicks about Orta but it in no way breaks the series as a game or as art to me. And it’s still my pick for the most impressive and beautiful game on XBOX, which is saying something.

46

I’m playing SAGA on a TV through an RGB cable right now, and it looks brighter and more “vivid” than ORTA (also being played through RGB).
thank god I don’t have to put up with crappy American TVs. :anjou_embarassed:

47

I thought Orta was brilliant, it got me into the series anyway. Well, besides the fact that I did know of the series and the mythical legend of a genre defining game handed down from generation to generation…

48

I just read through this thread and am astounded as to how different you guys perceptions of the Saturn games were to mine (Haven’t played Orta yet).

The only thing that conveyed emotion in the original game was the music, although the CGI did have some charm, not enough to have any real effect though. the music was stunning enough though to carry the games atmosphere entirely and for that it is still the most emotional PD game of all the Saturn games, including Saga.
Panzer Dragoon Zwei, for me, seemed to loose this entirely. The music was infirior beyond belief to that of the original. Some good stuff and well above average, but nothing like on the scale of PD. The CGI scenes weren’t much better. they were at a sort of intermediate stage of quality that didn’t really work for me. The gameplay itself was also inferior for me, in fact overall I’m simply shocked as to how people can see Zwei as superior to the original because it smply isn’t, in every way. Yes the story is better, but you don’t even know what the hell is going on untill you get to disc 3 or 4 of Saga. it’s all random a random Zelda-esque broken plot untill that point. heck, I didn’t even know it was set before the original untill I played Saga, LAST WEEK!
Saga was sublime, no quarms with it at all, apart from the weak character development. I’m sorry but if anybody can judge any of the character development in these three games as deep, you’ve seen NOTHING!!!

Anyway that’s my perception, each to their own but I’m baffled by all this Zwei applauding. Don’t get me wrong, PD is my favourite series of all!

49

Multiple routes, dragon evolution, walking sections and the ever handy beserk attack leaves Zwei much better than PD in my opinion.
As for Zwei being the prequel to PD, I thought that was suggested quite strongly in the closing FMV of Zwei, particularly if you evolved to the Solo Wing Dragon.

50

Meh, none of that stuff added anything for me. I tended to just forget the berserk attack, especialy since the game is so ludicrously easy in comparison to its predecessor. Overall, I think a lot of people just seem to have the mentality that more=better, which is often not the case.

51

I think fluent 60fps compared to someimes less than 15fps is better =) Stylewise I like PD better than PDZ though, but that’s just personal taste. and taste can not be a matter of discussion.

52

For me Zwei was better simply because :

-It was my first PD game
-I was more emotional in terms of story (ok so it isn’t that evolved but somehow it was deep…the music helping a lot)
-The gameplay was better imo because of the more fluid controls.
-PanDra’s Box

53

I don’t think it was a case of more-is-better, but that these additions enhanced gameplay in various ways. Replay value was helped with multiple routes and the prospect of unlocking fun variables in PanDras box was a major motivator to continue to play as well. The beserk attack did make the game easier in that you had a “panic button” of sorts to get out of tight situations, but with some skill it becomes a vital part of a players strategy, particularly against the bosses. The on foot sections altered movement by taking away the ability to dip up or down, providing a new challenge in the levels that utilised it.
I thought these were appropirate additions that enhanced gameplay and didnt feel teacked on at all.

54

I think Lagi died because the Heresy Dragon left him ‘mortal’.

As for the Saga vs. Orta debate,first of all,Orta may not be good as Saga but Orta holds something true to the series:gameplay.Saga shows more of the PD World by making it to a RPG.

However,I do agreed what Team Andromeda said:Dont compare the beautiful Orta to the so called best PD Saga(Sorry for the mocking).Its true that Orta settings are different but Saga is too,different because its an RPG.

To me,I dont consider Saga to be a ‘true’ Panzer Dragoon.

[quote=“Kadamose”]

If watching a lifeless, cell-shaded zombie is your forte, so be it. Orta definitely came across as a zombie to me, and I really didn’t give a shit about her – not like I was supposed to, anyway. In the end, I was hoping for Abadd to awaken his masters and give her a serious ass kicking for being so damn naive.[/quote]

Maybe you need to get your ass kicked.Whoever agreeds with this quote deserves to be blasted by Lagi.I dont hate Orta,in fact,I pity her.For her to live in a prison,she deserves to be free like Azel.Orta is like between Naruto and Gaara from the manga/anime Naruto.And I dont think Orta is naive,shes just confused about and around her.If you just keep blaming Orta for something,maybe you should blame Azel.

55

That’s actually a really good way of looking at it…

56

I guess I spoke about the debate a little too much.

57

[quote=“Light Wing”]Maybe you need to get your ass kicked.Whoever agreeds with this quote deserves to be blasted by Lagi.I dont hate Orta,in fact,I pity her.For her to live in a prison,she deserves to be free like Azel.Orta is like between Naruto and Gaara from the manga/anime Naruto.And I dont think Orta is naive,shes just confused about and around her.If you just keep blaming Orta for something,maybe you should blame Azel.
[/quote]

I find it hard to feel anything for Ortas inprisonment went she’s freed within the intro and (perhaps more crucially) all her inner thoughts and personal feelings are given to us through the dragons monologues between levels.

58

I guess Orta wouldn’t know anything about diaries…

I liked the change-up personally, and it seems to make her equally as endearing to some as it alienates her from others, a perfect fit for this series. Panzer Dragoon has never had any real heroes, I may actually like Orta for that reason, if anything she has the greatest anti-hero quotient of all the riders.

59

I just wanted to quickly mention something. If Orta had been done in the graphical cell-shaded style of something like ZOE 2, it would have looked great, and fit the graphical style of the original trilogy a bit better, as well.

60

I don’t see how you can say that. PDS was fucking brilliant in every sense of the word - it literally brought the Panzer Dragoon universe to life. Granted, Zwei was brilliant, as well – but it just can’t compare to PDS, mainly because PDS actually explains things and is much more refined than its predecessors.

And what it really comes down to is this: PDS was neither a rail shooter or an RPG - it was merely a tour guide of the Panzer Dragoon universe. Without PDS in the equation, there would be very little to work with as far as theories and content go, and any panzer dragoon ‘fan’ who says otherwise has obviously never played PDS.

Without PDS, the Panzer Dragoon universe would have been an example of mediocrity due to the lack of explanation. PDS simply served as an explanation - nothing more.

As far as Orta is concerned, however – if anything, it’s the bastard child out of the series. It just wasn’t thought out very well, and was a huge disappointment…not because it wasn’t an RPG, but because it just ‘lacked something’ and felt downright generic.