What Is Sony Thinking?

Other Games
41

Right, because when I said “think of the possiblities” I obviously meant think of the possiblities within a single game (and in fact a game that we know most all control tricks of - btw there’s a bit more to it than point and shoot), even though we are talking about the controller’s ability. Smart.

No, I don’t think it’s a replacement (by the way, in a racing game you’d hold it horizontally with both hands, not tilting it around like a remote. Duh.) for anything, I think it’s a cheap accessory that is able to emulate many, many, many, many, many different functions while having a few tricks of its own as well which will allow for a greater range of uses and game styles. Will it be as good as a $200 wheel complete with gears and pedals for a RACING GAME? No, but it’s still going to be a hell of a lot better than a standard pad and it won’t cost me anything extra, plus I have all the rest of its uses for all the rest of the games. Get it? Flight games, fishing games, drumming games, orchestra games, sword fighting games (anyone played that awesome arcade coin op sword fighter? You can now have games like that at home!), any kind of vehicle based game, FPS games, etc, etc, etc, etc. Let’s not even talk about how successfully genres can be mixed up as well. Plus, developers can use it in any creative way they want as every single of the console owners has it, not just a small minority which happen to be hardcore fans of a certain genre like it happens with specialised hardware.

Most everybody who played (read, not saw) that PS3 warhawk or whatever demo thought it was a good move from Sony to implement the tilts (despite their shit motives and the obvious initial bad rep it gave Sony), and now you tell me that a far superior device will be shit to play things with? Well, I’m glad you are not most people. I know I’m not either, but atleast I see the response to the Wii is for the most part positive. From press and people alike.

Don’t be so short sighted. Think of the possibilities. Given how many people simply refuse to do so I’m for the first time having doubts about third party developer support. If everybody’s so short sighted then maybe most companies can’t even come up with anything interesting to make. Then again, they rarely come up with anything interesting for any system.

Well, I’m still getting a Wii, just for the games the good companies will make. Couldn’t care less if the system is #1 or #3 or #5 in sales. But given the Famitsu readers’ response it may just take Japan by storm and so the rest of the world will follow suit, same as it happened with the DS.

42

By the way, that’s what I meant. Grab your living room remote for your television and imagine yourself steering a car with that thing. That’s retarded.

Where’d this come from? Never said anything about its functionality, I just said the whole concept is a gimmick.

The possibilities ultimately end up involving me either waving my arms around like a madman with a pointer, or sitting down on my couch with an analog stick seperated from the remote unit, and doing half-assed point-and-fire (you try aiming and firing accurately with a lightgun near your lap while sitting). None of this stuff interests me one bit, much like the DS never interested me with its touch screen nonsense.

43

Well, to answer your racing game thing, I don’t know what you see so uncomfortable or disfunctional about tilting a nes pad-style device around to guide a car or whatever. Care to elaborate why it’s such a hideous thought that makes you despise the system so much before you even experience it?

Anyway, why does “waving your arms around” as you call it not interest you? Because you’ll get tired? Once again, not every game will require exagerated movements. Or is it because you’ll look silly to other people?

What exactly would be so crap about a realistic-ish fantasy sword fighting game for example? Or a Jedi combat game where you use the remote as a lightsaber? Or whatever type of fighting interests you if any? What’s so amazingly stupid about adding that layer to the game that makes you want to simply press X to swing and O to block instead?

Seriously, try and remember that games are meant to be fun, not something that allows you to take a cool pose and sit in your awesome couch looking all trendy and hip or whatever while you trash another dude in fighting or sports game X…

So, really, you don’t care for all the quirky games it can spawn (ie drumming, orchestras, fishing, various sports, whatever) because of the waving. And you also don’t care that more regular games (ie fps, tps, adventures, etc) can have a hint of more immersion and fun, as well as a robust control system only rivaled by a PC setup, because you don’t think that’s the case at all…

So, what exactly are you looking for in a new system? Which one do you plan to eventually get and why?

44

[quote]Uh, I just built an Athlon64 FROM SCRATCH last month, and here are the specs:

Athlon64 motherboard (gigabyte MB) with Athlon64 3700+ CPU combo: $149
ATX case w/400 watt power supply: $11
Kingston HyperX 1 GB PC-3200 DDR memory: $53
Maxtor 160GB Hard Drive with 8 MB of cache: $50
Radeon 9600 w/ 256 MB: $50

Total: $313

So, how did I get these parts so damn cheap, you ask? I GOT RID OF THE MIDDLEMAN - THAT’S HOW. Never, ever, EVER buy retail unless you seriously want a royal screwing[/quote]

:anjou_happy: So what happend to less $250 ??? and my that graphics card so high end and ready for next gen gaming . Yes SEGA, lets build a new console with a out of date GPU you’ll get the casuals for sure with that .

Go back to Price watch mate :wink:

45

There are two conversations going on here, so I’ll address them both.

  1. Building a “cheaper” console: You buy cheap, crap parts, and you’ll get a cheap, crap system that will have stability issues and will have a lifespan shorter than current consoles. Your whole point was that Sega should come in with a kick ass system for $250 or whatever and blow everyone away. Problem is that you left out costs that are essential to a gaming console (some sort of device to read the game medium, a sound device, AV cables, a case that would actually fit in an AV rack beneath a TV, etc). Throw in your Hu-Card (for whatever reason) reader, and the price would skyrocket, as those are not mass produced like DVD drives.

To compete with Nintendo, Sega would have to produce a system better then the Wii in terms of specs and innovation, that also has as strong a 1st party lineup as Nintendo. To compete with the PS3 and X360, it would have to be similar or higher spec, but cheaper, and have more features. Otherwise, why would most people care?

And let’s not forget the fact that publishers have already invested in their R&D on these three systems. What would entice them to spend further R&D money on a 4th system from a company that had already dropped out of the console race once before?

  1. Wii: There’s no point in arguing the pros/cons of the controller until you actually play with it. There are some people that love it, and some people that hate it. Personally, I don’t like being forced to play a game sitting in a specific spot, sitting up straight, etc. I like to lie down on the couch, roll over, move to the floor, play while I’m eating, etc. Wouldn’t be possible with a fully utilized Wii controller.
46

None of them as things currently stand. Until I see multiple games that make me go “wow”, I’m going to do as I’ve always done with every game console generation… sit back and watch things happen for a year or two.

47

And that would be the smart thing to do… so why would you go and do somethign like that? :wink:

48

[quote=“Parn”]

You mean how you can aim with the pointer and shoot at targets?

Where have I seen this before.

…

Are you for real.

http://synbios.net/images/misc/lightgun.jpg[/quote]

Oh my god. You really have absolutely no fucking clue how it works! :anjou_angry:

49

Back to Sony and their odd thinking. =D

More cocky talk can be found here.

With wonderful quotes such as: “It is perfectly naturally for two companies to work on (nearly) identical devices. It’s like that with technology.” He reiterated that the PS2’s Dual Shock controller is the “de facto-industry standard for video games. … We define the standard for the man-machine interface for playing games.”

And: "the Linux-based operating system on the console’s hard drive will have enough processing power and non-gaming functionalities to render traditional PCs – most of which use a form of Microsoft’s Windows OS – moot in the home. “We believe that the PS3 will be the place where our users play games, watch films, browse the Web, and use other (home) computer functions. The PlayStation 3 is a computer. We do not need the PC.”

Chuck out the very PC you’re using at the moment! The PS3 makes it obsolete!

50

[quote=“Parn”]

None of them as things currently stand. Until I see multiple games that make me go “wow”, I’m going to do as I’ve always done with every game console generation… sit back and watch things happen for a year or two.[/quote]

Well, good reply, guess it’s a coincidence that you had to come talk negatively about Nintendo in a thread which was originally simply about Sony :anjou_happy:

Anyway. Those are some quite ridiculous comments you found there Pedro. I really love what he says about Linux making us not need PCs… I’m all for anything that helps make Linux more widespread but come on, most of the users won’t even know wtf that is while they’ll have at some point used Windows… And they won’t even be able to find half the programs they got to use on it… There’s a reason linux isn’t very popular and I doubt Sony can change that. I’m still curious to see what kind of distro they include and exactly how compatible it is with all the Linux apps out there…

As for the controller stuff, well… LOL.

51

[quote=“Abadd”]
2) Wii: There’s no point in arguing the pros/cons of the controller until you actually play with it. There are some people that love it, and some people that hate it. Personally, I don’t like being forced to play a game sitting in a specific spot, sitting up straight, etc. I like to lie down on the couch, roll over, move to the floor, play while I’m eating, etc. Wouldn’t be possible with a fully utilized Wii controller.[/quote]

I guess you didn’t enjoy Samba De Amigo then? :anjou_happy:

52

Except the Wii was mentioned, and I felt like commenting about it. Topics deviate all the time, and it’s absurd to try to restrict conversation. It’s not like I went from talking about Sonic the Hedgehog to bacteria farming… discussion is still around fairly related material. Does it really bother you that much?

Well then, your royal fucking highness can explain to me how the Wii controller works in Metroid Prime 3. I’m expecting a half-assed cop out, but feel free to surprise me.

53

[quote=“Arcie”]

[quote=“Abadd”]
2) Wii: There’s no point in arguing the pros/cons of the controller until you actually play with it. There are some people that love it, and some people that hate it. Personally, I don’t like being forced to play a game sitting in a specific spot, sitting up straight, etc. I like to lie down on the couch, roll over, move to the floor, play while I’m eating, etc. Wouldn’t be possible with a fully utilized Wii controller.[/quote]

I guess you didn’t enjoy Samba De Amigo then? :anjou_happy:[/quote]

That?s completely different , add-ons like Samba, Get Bass Rod, Eye Toy, Bongo?s were just that Add-Ons. They weren’t the main controller , which 90% of games will use as the basic controller . For what its worth I think Abadd is spot on. I can’t see many waving thier arms around for hrs on end for every game. The lack of face buttons and spec’s will hurt NCl when everyone tires and get bored of the interface

54

Games like Samba de Amigo are great when you have a bunch of goofy friends over (who are possibly slightly drunk), or you are having a party. When people are already willing to make themselves look a bit foolish in the name of entertainment, those games work fantastic.

But try busting out a DDR mat or something on your average person on an average day. Most people would avoid that sort of thing simply to avoid looking stupid. Granted, most games nowadays that require physical movement require exaggerated physical movement, so the problem is amplified by those examples, but the point remains valid, nonetheless.

One of the points that Reggie/Nintendo made during their press conference was, “How many people do you know that have never read a book? How about never watched a movie? Now, how many people do you know that have never played a game?” The point he was trying to make was that games aren’t as popular as movies or books simply because of the means of interaction and content. On one hand, I totally agree. Modern controllers are extremely intimidating (try explaining a PS3 controller to someone: 2 joysticks, a directional pad, 4 face buttons, 4 shoulder buttons, 2 joystick buttons, and tilt sensitivity!), and most content is geared toward young males. That being said, one of the reasons of the popularity of things like movies is that it requires little to no active investment on the part of the audience. They simply can sit there and watch. The hardest activity an audience is required to do, particularly in the case of books, is think.

With something like the Wiimote, you are requiring the audience to learn entire new physical skills (not something everyone is adept at). To top it off, there is no actual feedback on the actions you take. If you miss a swing in a baseball game, for example, how do you know why? Is it because you swung too late? Too high? Too low? Or maybe the sensor didn’t pick up your movement right?

I’m not saying it’s impossible to make good use of the controller. Far from it. There are plenty of ways to make fun games with that controller. I’m just saying that it’s not without its problems and just like specs announced for any console that you haven’t yourself played, take anything you hear (including my post here) about the Wiimote with a grain of salt.

A healthy bit of consumer skepticism never hurt.

55

Umm…I’m going to make a guess. Somewhere between FPS and Virtua Cop? Move Samus around and aim where you want to shoot?

56

It would even simplify circle strafing like that. The analogue stick could decide moving forward, backward, and sideways, thus, when moving the analogue stick right while consistantly pointing or tilting the Wiimote left you’d go and circle strafe and dazzle your opponent with circular movement.

57

I already covered “point and shoot” with analog movement for Metroid Prime 3 earlier in the thread. However, Grumbler is an individual of fine breeding and knows something I don’t know. I’m anxiously awaiting his response!

58

Actually, it’s more than just a light gun with a analog stick. A light gun simply captures a small portion of the screen in a light sensor and detects whether or not you’ve shot a specific part of the screen. The Wiimote will actually serve more as a 3D mouse, if you will, to move your actual view point depending on where you are pointing it.

I haven’t played it yet myself, so I cannot attest to the quality, but it will be interesting how they addressed the fact that your wrist has a much more limited range (and sensitive) of movement than your fingers. Then again, Metroid Prime uses a target lock system, so fine-tuned shooting isn’t necessarily required…

59

I’m wondering if the controller will have a button with a “Hold” or “Center” function, that would either pause the controls so they don’t register movement, or quickly sets the current position as the default “center” position.

This would make it easy enough to either pause the game, move and center the controller or pause the controls, move, and unpause. That way, you wouldn’t be entirely rooted to the spot while playing.

Just a thought, anyway.

60

It is lightgun-style while you aim inside the screen but when you reach the edges it instead starts turning the view to that direction.

In the demo people felt the turning speed wasn’t fast but everything’s subject to change in that by the time it’s finished anyway.

What I would do is make the turning speed analogue rather than fixed so the more you turn the remote (so the more off-screen you “aim”) the faster Samus turns.

Hope they realise they can do that before release or it will bring Prime down a tad (though a slider to adjust turning speed will probably be included, so u can atleast have it fixed to your liking).

Dunno what exactly you are waiting to hear about Metroid Prime 3 Parn. It’s a FPS, it works as told above (with the stick used as WASD replacement), plus you can launch a grapple beam with forward thrusts (not sure of which hand, remember the joystick attachment is also motion enabled), and also use the left hand to guide Samus’ arm (it follows your movements during this) into activating levers and switches.

I brought it as an example of what the controller offers for the current style of games not as anything groundbreaking but as something that shows how games can be enhanced. I always wanted to see a lightgun game with free movement like in a FPS. Capcom’s attempt was a failure since the controller (just a lightgun) wasn’t ideal to say the least but now I can finally have that =)

I’ve already talked about the possibilities for other types of games earlier in the thread.