[quote=“SegaTecToy”]The form that the Heresy Dragon (aka black dragon program, I think) uses in sestren is the final form of all dragons, right?
It is the same form the guardian dragon uses in PD Zwei if you play the game well enough.[/quote]
I’m not entirely sure what you mean by this, STT; would you elaborate a bit?[/quote]
The black star-like form that the Heresy dragon uses in the end of PDS when he talks to Edge and the player. It’s looks like the final form of the PDZ final boss, the guardian dragon. (but, of course, it can only be a lookalike)
Well, maybe the solo wing dragon is the final physical form a dragons can evolve to and that star-like form is their more spiritual form. After all, Dragons have two components: a body and a program controlling this body.
The best explanation is probably that the crest adopts the image of the dragon that left its essence behind in it. There’s no way that the crest could literally be Lagi’s body; it is confirmed as just being a physical object.
Lance that’s only the case if you accept the baby dragon as part of the game, I still haven’t seen anything to convince me that it’s a FACT the dragon merged with a dragon baby and turned in the Solo Wing. Even in that official wallpaper showing the dragon’s evolution since PDZ the Solo Wing bit is not shown at all, it goes from another form directly to Orta’s Dragon form. Let’s not forget that the crest as seen in PDS is WAY tinier than it looks in PDZ… heck it’s even smaller than the baby dragon if I remember correctly… And sure Lundi thought it’s not Lagi but what tells us he’s right? Maybe Lagi does go cold when hybernating the fact is his throat was still glowing, it must have been him. Also, the fact it has the form of whatever dragon you finish the game with confirms this as well.
The best explanation is probably that the crest adopts the image of the dragon that left its essence behind in it. There’s no way that the crest could literally be Lagi’s body; it is confirmed as just being a physical object.[/quote]
Isn’t a body a physical object??Where has it been confirmed??
I think you may be forgetting what they look like a bit, STT, as they really don’t look very similar at all… if I can dig up some good images, I’ll post them to show you.
STT, again, the guardian dragon’s second form is nothing like the black or gold dragons. And also we have no info telling us ALL dragon’s have a program+body like the Heresy dragon, for all I know they are just the highest form of a bio-weapon. The only dragon we know for fact is more than just that is the Heresy program+Lagi
Actually this is a very good theory. Considerig that the HD created the dragon’s body himself and knowing all about the inner workings of the towers he created a function to destroy them hampering this working and causing a huge explosion.
In PDZ when he saw that even with all that damage the tower wasn’t falling anymore and was releasing many biomonsters he saved Lundi and used the function.
The weapon has to be used from inside due to the armor of the tower, so, he was caught by the explosion and was greatly damaged.
Later, Lundi found his body and though he was dead.
Eventually Lagi awakened, found a new rider, tried to destroy one more tower, sestren used the Dark Dragon to try to stop him and PD1 starts.
In this game end he uses the function again and gets caught by the explosion one more time (don’t you you hate short-range weapons?)
About the dragons’ forms: Yep. I think you all are right. it’s only my weak memory playing tricks on me. (I need to play PDZ again. Still playing eins)
I already replied to Lance on why I think that function wasn’t an extra thing created by the Heresy program but instead something the Heresy Dragon was meant to have since it’s creation.
The largest, clearest images of the Dragon Crest - like the following picture from The Art of Panzer Dragoon - clearly show that it is not a body: it’s simply a physical likeness of a dragon.
On top of that, I raised some points in a theory write-up for the main site that relate to this completely, so I’ll quote myself if that’s OK:
“It should probably be pointed out that, although it has been suggested that the Dragon Crest within Shelcoof was itself the body of Lagi that Lundi wrote about, several things show that this is not the case. Primarily, descriptions in Panzer Dragoon Saga confirm that the relic was just a ?Crest in which an image of a dragon is engraved?. As Edge had the crest in his possession when he transported it to the Red Ruins, he would have surely noticed if the truth was otherwise. A detailed image of the Dragon Crest on the ?save game? menu in Panzer Dragoon Saga also shows that it is merely a carving. In addition, Lundi recorded in his diaries that Lagi?s body was ?stone cold?, meaning that he must have touched it. Given the massive scale of the Dragon Crest room, it is very unlikely that he could have climbed up to that item, though. It would also ? to perhaps state the blatantly obvious ? be very strange for a dragon?s dead body to be stuck halfway up a wall in the exact centre of a carved emblem in the first place. It is clear that Lundi must have discovered Lagi?s dead body after finding the Dragon Crest; that is, after the ending sequence that we see.”
There’s also the fact that the crest still has the image of the dragon on it at the end of PD Saga when you take it to the Red Ruins - after whatever “entered” the crest had left. Most convincingly of all, every Dragon Crest we’ve seen has the image of the Solo Wing in exactly the same pose. I honestly don’t expect that a load of Solo Wings rammed into those crests and all died in exactly the same position…
That’s just concept art it doesn’t mean much. get an in-game screenshot from the video it looks much more like a dragon body there if I remember correctly, especially with certain dragon forms.
And like I said, nothing has convinced me yet that anything to do with the baby dragon in PDS is “legitimate”. In PDS it even appears smaller than it really was.
So, why would the crest have the form of any dragon you finish the game with and why would it’s throat glow in the same way Lagi’s throat glows?
Did the crest Edge find glow? Nope it didn’t…did it look like it had room for a baby dragon to be inside it? Nope it didn’t… Just cos the crest we see in PDZ is (imo atleast) Lagi’s body doesn’t mean there aren’t just plain old crests out there anyway. We see a crest at the start of PDS as well, before meeting the dragon. That can’t be Lagi since we never see him hybernate anywhere else other than in Shellcoof… And wherever he did before PDZ…
… except for the fact that it happened? I’m really not sure what you mean here, and why you’d consider an error-filled wallpaper as being more accurate than the game. The dragon crest / dragon pup sequence was clearly put into Saga in order to explain what Zwei’s ending was all about; the ending would be pretty meaningless otherwise.
The crest is apparently not any smaller. It’s hard to tell accurately I admit, because one is done in high-quality FMV and the other with in-game graphics (several years later).
Lundi told us that he touched Lagi’s body - as I pointed out above, there’s no real way that he could scale the enormous wall to touch the dragon crest.
The crest was evidently glowing because Lagi left the essence in there that emerged as the baby dragon.
At the end of the day, the dragon crest cannot be Lagi’s body: that image (which is the same image used in-game) clearly shows that it is not. All of the other evidence I’ve pointed out confirms that, and everything else can be reasonably explained otherwise.
Lance : You say Edge took the crest to the Red Ruins?That is not so.He took the baby coolia within.
This is should be clarified in the next game.I mean this doesn’t add up.
I agree with you a bit tho.It would make prefect sense the the crests were placed as “save points” for Lagi’s essence in this world.The HD program’s essence that was injected into this world,into the baby coolia.
That’s my point exactly: the image on the crest cannot be a physical dragon body because it is the same on every crest. How can that be explained otherwise?
It’s probably slipped your mind, but Edge definitely did take the crest. When you Access the crest in Shelcoof if disappears from the wall and Edge picks it up as an item - it appears on your subscreen. Then Edge goes to the Red Ruins and places the crest on the empty pedestal (it appears there and leaves your item list). This triggers whatever process fuses the dragon pup and current dragon together.
What do you mean when you say the ending doesn’t have a meaning without the baby dragon? The same things happen whether you have the Solo Wing or not. In fact wether you have the Solo Wing or not the videos STILL show another dragon form so as far as the story FMVs are concerned the merge NEVER happened. It’s a hidden secret of the game as far as I’m concerned, if it was really that importand to the story then we wouldn’t be able to destroy shellcoof before getting the baby. It would have taken just one slight tweak in order to have it like that in the game and yet they didn’t do it.
If you accept the baby existing then you accept that every dragon in the game is different. If every dragon is different why after the heresy/body split would this new body care about the old heresy’s “friends” at all if it wasn’t our Lagi?
Al3x:The fusion does take place - in the scene after the battle with Sestren we see 4 dragon forms : the Baby Wing,the Arm Wing,the Light Wing and the Solo Wing.
If the fact all crests are the same means it’s not lagi’s body in Shellcoof then that doesn’t make sense with your theory either since even with your theory the “essence” of the dragon is what shaped the crest. How did it shape ALL crests? If you say cos they are somehow connected then that can fit in MY theory as well. Dragon’s body connected with all the crests and turned them to his own form. See? Fits in
the fact is his throat was still glowing, it must have been him. Also, the fact it has the form of whatever dragon you finish the game with confirms this as well.
