Valkyria Chronicles

[Team_Andromeda]

but why would you wonder why Ubisoft don’t do well on Wii when all their games are shite

You’ll have a point if it was just Ubi, most of the 3rd party stuff on the Wii is poor , I can’t really think of one 3rd party making better software for the Wii, than they are on the 360 or PS3 . And that’ not a wind up btw , it’s what I feel . Now its either all 3rd parties are dire , or there’s a problem and a issue with NCL . Speaking of Ubi , didn’t they bring No more Heroes , and that sold how well ??

The PS2 still has a larger base, and that’s where the game was first. It was an equal flop on that as it was on the Wii,

I pretty sure the PS2 version sold over 200,000 to 300,000 copies . I don’t think the Wi version will ever come close

I thought we were talking about Capcom there you know, not Nintendo. I don’t think RE4, a port which in theory would sell like shit since so many people played it on PS2 and GC (and er, PC?) sold over a million copies

A port? , I’m pretty sure the PS2 port if RE 4 remains the best seller . Maybe there’s such a lack of good games onthe Wii, the moment a decent game comes along ,now and again it can sell well

Also, comparing Zack & Wiki to Dead Rising? I don’t think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out which game has more mass market appeal.

Still new IP and came at a time when the 360 userbase , wasn’t half that of the Wii. Who knows maybe if the Wii had more grunt , Wii owners could have joined in the fun .

Which version of Call Of Duty sold the best ?, The 360 version or the Wii version , with all its million and millions of sales . I think its safe to say the gamer is more often than not , the 360 consumer

Nintendo’s games have the quality and the marketing behind them and are constantly in the top spots

You’re going to sit there and tell me Wii Music is quality, much inthe top stop (excuse me while I laugh) Mario Kart Wii is worse than the Cube version and that’s say something. Animal Crossing Wii is nothing but a simple cheap port of a DS game . But still all the non gamers care about is their Wii Sports and Wi Play .
Like the DS, NCL don’t care about the gamer any more , roll on more Brain Training and Party games, they’re sure to please the ‘core’ gamer .

The only decent Team left in NCL is EAD Toyko and those poor guys can only make a game every 2 years

[Al3xand3r]

Dude, you’re torn between your contradicting “insults”. One moment you claim no good 3rd party games sell on the wii, the next you claim there actually are no good 3rd party games at all, thus some that do come along (ie the RE4 port) sell well. What are you on about? Are you blaming the Wii for not having the market, the third parties for not making good games, the Wii for not allowing the third parties to make good games, the Wii for good games that don’t sell well, or what the hell already? You change things around 180o every next paragraph.

If Ubi brought No More Heroes, though my box doesn’t say so, I don’t know how well it sold, but it’s Suda51’s most succesful game in the West according to most sources anyway. Probably a flop by others’ standards, a success to him anyway, hence No More Heroes 2 for Wii.

Dead Rising vs Wiki again, Dead Rising had the mass market appeal and the marketing backing. Wiki had neither. Are you seriously debating that it could have sold as good as Dead Rising? It couldn’t, no matter what system it was on, if it wasn’t backed.

RE4, I brought it up as an example of a game that still sold as much as your beloved amazingly well-selling Dead Rising, which had all the marketing in the world, and was a new game, and not an ancient, last-gen game ported. Now you compare it with its sales on PS2, a year or however long earlier, with double the install base? Jeez, wtfever.

If you can’t see that Wii Music served its purpose more than great (ie, kids game), you are clueless. As for Mario Kart, as worse as it might be from past Mario Karts, it still tramples any similar competition from 3rd parties, heck its almost its own genre anyway. Besides, online play is a great addition (or continuation to the DS game I guess) to the series which makes up for many flaws for most people, especially with how well it works, cheats aside.

Call of Duty 5 is a shite COD4 clone regardless of platform, hardly the peak of gaming you seem to think it is. It’s only paid marketing that makes it rate well. The fact the Wii version was butchered in more ways than it should have been, and still got similarly great reviews, shows that much.

Again, you fail to see 90% of my post and 50% of your past arguments anyway.

[Team_Andromeda]

One moment you claim no good 3rd party games sell on the wii, the next you claim there are actually are no good 3rd party games at all, thus some that do come along (ie the RE4 port) sell well

I don’t do insults , and you’e going to tell me there;s a wealth of great 3rd party games onthe Wii, never mind ones that outperform 3rd party games onthe 360. I think that is not the case , and its not a problem with Capcom or Ubisoft games .

the Wii for not allowing the third parties to make good games,

Maybe if the Wii had better tech, it would make a difference , yes .

If Ubi brought No More Heroes, though my box doesn’t say so,

Well Ubisoft brouhg it to the West and its on my box, Maybe it was different onthe Cube .

All I know is the game didn’t sell that great

Suda51’s most succesful game in the West

Like that is saying something after the flop that was Killer 7 on both the Cube and PS2

had the mass market appeal and the marketing backing. Wiki had neither.

Maybe because Capcom had more faith inthe 360 market ?

sold as much as your beloved amazingly well-selling Dead Rising

I don’t really like DR , it’s Lost Planet what I like. Now there’s a new IP that sold over a million too.

Are you blaming the Wii for not having the market, the third parties for not making good games

Yes I blame NCL, They don’t give a toss about 3rd parties and it shows and has done since the N64 days .

If you can’t see that Wii Music served its purpose

I can see if pro NCL reviwers are having a Hard Time giving it any sort hype . All I’ll say is its not even a good music game, and is track listing is laughable

As for Mario Kart, as worse as it might be from past Mario Karts

Just say its rubbish , and the DS version way better . You’re right about 3rd parties too., but onthe Wii there’s not many racers to choose from .

Call of Duty 5 is a shite

Quite right , but it sold better onthe 360 than the Wii -even on the platform that’s dominating core gamers . Try and remember that .

[Al3xand3r]

I’m not gonna lead the discussion in a 360 (no, not the console) like you keep doing by ignoring things and repeating them later, within contadicting opinions every 3 lines, and shifting and changing the comparisons around with the excuse of poor english. I’ll end this by seeing you at least agree in that shite games can sell well on your beloved 360 too, so the Wii isn’t any worse in that aspect. Thanks.

[Team_Andromeda]

^

You see you always go on about people being whiny little bitches , and its only you that’s doing the bitching with silly little comments like beloved.

You can say what ever you want , Even though the Wii sells more than the 360 and PS3 combined , that’s not reflected inthe sales charts , is that a fact or people being silly, and to put the blame all down to 3rd parties is being a bit silly .

The Wii seems to be the dumping ground for 3rd party dross , and at the end of the day its NCL that got to take the blame . Maybe better spec’s and quality control from NCL would have made all the difference .

All I know is the better 3rd party games are all on the 360 and PS3 , and the Wii is one of the worst consoles and least played consoles I’ve owned since the Jaguar , but don’t tell me it was all the 3rd parties fault that most of the Jaguar games were sheer dross as well .

[Al3xand3r]

No, why would you blame the developer, it’s all up to the system you know. You need no skill, no talent, no effort, no funds, the console should do things by itself. Are you being serious or what? You’ve still failed to respond to half my posts overall, why should I continue to try?

Point 1) No good 3rd party games on Wii. That’s the Wii’s fault.

Point 2) No 3rd party games sell good on Wii. That’s the Wii’s fault.

And yet you fail to see that if point 1 was true, then point 2 is a direct result of that. And when that’s pointed out, you do this.

Point 3) Good 3rd party game X didn’t sell good on Wii. That’s the Wii’s fault.

But dude, you just disproved Point 1, how is this a good game when no good games exist on Wii?

Not to mention your constant conflict between points 1 and 2 and the constant contradictions. One moment what matters is the sales, the next moment there are no good games, the next moment when a good game comes up it’s proven a “flop” even if it’s the company’s most succesful game. Then we once again forget any good game on it and go back to saying there just are NO worthy 3rd party games whatsoever, and constantly go back and forth between two contradicting points.

Then you mention a company doesn’t have success on the Wii as if it should have when their games suck. Wht the hell? Then you mention SEGA having no success, then I mention all the games they have in the pipeline indicate they had enough success, and then you ignore than and bring up something else that has already been discussed, countered and ignored so, where’s the sense in discussing in this manner at all?

Now we got a new point, specs, hurray. Blame specs for bad quality games! The same specs that created masterpieces like Super Mario Galaxy and Metroid Prime 3. Not to mention lesser specs with Ici, Persona 4 and Dragon Quest 8. Why are suddenly specs such a downfall? I agree in what you say about the Wii being the dumping ground for 3rd parties overall, especially your beloved Ubisoft you were asking me why they fail on the Wii (lol?) but how that is logically justified because of the Wii’s specs is beyond me.

If Capcom can create a Monster Hunter 3 then it’s obvious I should blame Capcom’s lack of support for how Dead Rising is shaping up, not Nintendo. If Sega can create a Mad World, then I’ll blame Sega for Nights being shit. Just as when Sega can create Valkyria Chronicles I’ll blame Sega for how Sonic Unleashed came up. Why is logic not applied for the Wii discussions then?

The simple fact is, you sold your Wii after playing 2-4 games, leave it at that instead of pretending to know and judge its whole library past present and especially future. You have an obvious personal vendetta with Nintendo (how ridiculous is that alone?) and the more you discuss it the less sense you make and the worse your use of English gets. And mine I guess, judging from this lsat rant.

[Team_Andromeda]

No I blame NCL its quite simple , just like I blamed SEGA for the 32X . The Wii is better than the 32X though , I’ll have to say that .

Still its seems to me , even with the millions of sales , 3rd parties rather produce the bigger and better games onthe next gen consoles . And maybe there’s a reason for that , software s better sales , and the developers can do more with thier games thanks to the better tech spec.

Wii Owners get a port of RE 4, while 360 and PS3 fans get RE5 . I know which I rather

[Al3xand3r]

Yeah obviously what drives them to create Resident Evil 5 is that they can do more with the systems, that’s why the game looks 90% RE4 with superficial improvements like normal mapping. That’s what games are all about. I think I know which of the two games will be remembered as the title that brought the franchise into the future.

Anyway, it’s not like Capcom aren’t putting any major franchise on the Wii. They already made a new IP for it, and now they put their biggest IP on it with Monster Hunter 3, so it’s clear that UNLIKE you, they don’t blame the Wii/NCL for the failures of Wiki and Okami. And Squaresoft offer their probably 2nd (maybe 1st in Japan) greatest IP with Dragon Quest X. And Sega a lot of support with all of the titles I already mentioned. And EA finally starting to see its potential with the likes of Cursed Mountain, and all those other companies with the likes of Sin & Punishment 2, Endless Ocean 2, Fragile, Arc Rise Fantasia, Cosmic Walker, etc. But you like ignoring all these signs of 3rd parties finally seeing the Wii in a more mature manner, you’ll just dismiss half as dumb moves and half as “deals” and be done with it, as if MH and DQ are franchises they’d be willing to sacrifice on the altar of “deals”.

It’s only true that mainstream ignorant mindsets led publishers and developers into misleading conclusions, ending up in a cycle of bad games ending up with bad sales and generating more bad games and causing good games to get lost in the crowd, but that’s a problem of any succesful system. Suddenly Sony’s business is great to you, when in the Saturn days they were the mainstream casual devil which was the cause of the good games selling bad on Saturn. Now it seems logic dictates the opposite things, because a platform which manages to take their crown is the devil itself, heh.

The simple thing is, 2 years after release we are sitting on many good games any self respecting gamer should at least try instead of go all “game x on 360 was better” and it’s clear things are starting to change in favor of the Wii with all the great game announcements I’ve mentioned here and in past discussions. Anyone who doesn’t recognise the existing good games or the megaton announcements which show the platform’s maturity and ensure its long lifespan, is simply out of touch. And you do neither.

All this sounds just like the criticism the DS received, with all its “gimmicky features” and “underpowered specs”. Maybe it doesn’t have a God of War game like the PSP, but I don’t think that with such a vast library of games you can blame it for not satisfying any audience. It has anything, from non-games and casual entertainment to the most serious shooters, RPGs and dungeon crawlers. If it wasn’t for Monster Hunter to save the PSP in Japan, it would probably be already forgotten, minus some loyalty support from Square. The Wii will end up the same, except now it also gets the franchise that saved the PSP, Monster Hunter, and a franchise of the same caliber as FFXIII which elevated the 360, Dragon Quest X. Of course, not to save itself, but simply as the megaton announcements that prove the platform’s maturity (as a fine wine, not blood and tits). They’re the tip of the iceberg, just to get blindfolded haters to take another look.

[Team_Andromeda]

Yeah obviously what drives them to create Resident Evil 5 is that they can do more with the systems, that’s why the game looks 90% RE4 with superficial improvements like normal mapping.

I think you need to play the demo mate , because the GFX is up there with the best on offer this gen. Deep Space shows what 5.1 audio can do for a horror game , the poor Wii can’t even manage that .

Anyway, it’s not like Capcom aren’t putting any major franchise on the Wii

And why is that ?

and now they put their biggest IP on it with Monster Hunter 3,

I think both DMC and RE are bigger IP’s myself.

But you like ignoring all these signs of 3rd parties finally seeing the Wii in a more mature manner

And all those 3rd parties are putting thier biggest games onthe 360 and PS3 . You always go on about SEGA. I think thier biggest IP of late as been Yakuza , and that’s not on the Wii.

Hell NCL fans are missing out again on OutRun II SP, and that’s one one of the best SEGA games ever made

Suddenly Sony’s business is great to you, when in the Saturn days they were the mainstream casual

Casuals are great for market share , they’re not so great for game sales . In that regard 360 fans seem to be the best , unless you can prove otherwise

years after release we are sitting on many good games any self respecting gamer should at least try instead of go all “game x on 360 was better”

And maybe Wii fans should their self’s should buy a 360 and see what they’re missing out on . Its seems to me most Wii fans are reduced to saying its their 2nd console . You make all the lists you want, I think people could list the same amount of great games for 360 and most prob , more off them

underpowered specs"

hand helds are always underpowered , so its a rather mute point

[Al3xand3r]

I cba to use quotes, figure it out yourself:

• Dead Space kinda flopped also, didn’t it? Does that make those systems bad? I think not. Regardless, it still stands that RE5 is still mostly a rehash of 4, so many animations are identical, and even an object or two. I never said the graphics aren’t on par with this gen either, so, no argument there.

• And why is what? I said it’s NOT like…]!

• I don’t think the likes of DMC have their own regular (not just some little bonus marketing material) manga and trading card game to call them as big IPs as Monster Hunter, and they also have far fewer recent titles, and they also didn’t single-handedly revive the failing PSP. it’s only that they’re also popular in the West that makes you think so. As far as I understand it, MH is Capcom’s own mini-Pokemon over there.

• I meant DS was called gimmicky and underpowered in comparison to the PSP obviously, not to the home consoles.

• I never said the 360 is worse for you to argue that you can also make lists of good games. I know you can. Good for you. GREAT for you. I never argued that, I never said the 360 is worse so there’s no need to defend it as if I did.

Still, I have enough games as it is, I’m not going to sell my PC to make room for a 360, nor will I get a 360 just to be able to say I sold it cos it wasn’t good enough after playing 2-4 games, or to claim it RRODed or whatever. Besides, I’ve been playing the type of western games it gets on PC for a decade, its best titles are nothing new to me as they are for most console gamers who went from PlayStation to Xbox. No reason to get a 360 for COD4 or Mass Effect or Mirror’s Edge or Gears of War 2 when half of them are (or will be) on PC and I have other games to fill in the blanks of the rest.

• Not exactly seeing the point or argument in the other responses so, nothing to add.

[The_Ancient]

Besides, I’ve been playing the type of western games it gets on PC for a decade, its best titles are nothing new to me as they are for most console gamers who went from PlayStation to Xbox.

Offense taken at other peoples’ generalizations would have a lot more traction if you didn’t also resort to overplayed generalizations whenever it’s convenient.

That’s just another coded version of the *all XBOX’s best games are on PC *fallacy… which is even more of a reach for 360. Especially in the context of an argument about niche games, since those best titles you would be referring to are mostly all mainstream hits.

[Geoffrey]

So anyway guys, how’s the Fire Emblem series doing these days? IMO, in order to make these games marketable, you’d have to leech off of someone else’s fame these days.

I’m surprised this was greenlit at all?

Don’t kill one another btw guys!

Most games just aren’t made for you anymore, so there’s no point arguing over the numbers. It’s all about business models based on demographics now. Face it.

Being a “gamer” is still looked down upon in my experience, but I understand why when it’s seen through the eyes of someone firmly grounded in reality. People need to understand why people seek escapism in the first place.

[Al3xand3r]

Fire Emblem probably doing just fine on DS, they’re getting ready to release a remake of the first game in the series I believe, complete with an overall more “mature” look than usual or whatever.

I kinda think Valkyria would have been better off as a PC game. You know, something to satisfy the Fallout Tactics and Jagged Alliance fan. Then again, anime doesn’t bode well with such an audience.

[Team_Andromeda]

Dead Space kinda flopped also, didn’t it? Does that make those systems bad? I think not. Regardless, it still stands that RE5 is still mostly a rehash of 4, so many animations are identical, and even an object or two

I’ll put money on it selling better Fatal Frame IV . And I really don’t get this rehash comment , not when a lot of the games you tend to list could be classed of the same . You’re expecting Sin and Punishment II to play radically different ?, and I bet if Mad World was coming out on the 360 , you;ll be having a go at for , for being just another bloods and guts action game .

None of us have played the final copy of RE 5, but from what I played onthe demo , its league ahead of RE4 , in terms of scale and action. What Next Gen allows developers to go is make the worlds even more realistic, and in a Horror game that can add to the game experience , as can the better Audio .

I mean just playing the remake of Siren onthe PS3 , just shows the impact next gen graphics alone can make

I don’t think the likes of DMC have their own regular (not just some little bonus marketing material) manga and trading card game to call them as big IPs as Monster Hunter

I don’t think MP have cards and or merchandise to rival that of Musiking . But I wouldn’t say that SEGA biggest IP. Maybe I’m wrong , but I’m willing to bet Capcom is spending more , as a bigger team and is backing RE 5 more , than any IP in its locker .

I’m not going to sell my PC to make room for a 360, nor will I get a 360 just to be able to say I sold it cos it wasn’t good enough after playing 2-4 games, or to claim it RRODed or whatever. Besides, I’ve been playing the type of western games it gets on PC for a decade, its best titles are nothing new to me as they are for most console gamers who went from PlayStation to Xbox. No reason to get a 360 for COD4 or Mass Effect or Mirror’s Edge or Gears of War 2 when half of them are (or will be) on PC and I have other games to fill in the blanks of the rest.

I think we’re staring to lose the battle now . Let me tell you there’s lot of games not dveleoped inthe West on the 360 , and a lot that’s not on the PC.

Try playing Lost Odyssey or Ninja Gaiden II, AC IV , VF 5 onthe PC .

[Geoffrey]

I doubt that. Isn’t PC gaming flatlining apart from FPS games and MMOs right now?

How do you make people aware of niche titles such as this? And even if many were aware of it, hardly anyone would care because it just doesn’t suit their tastes.

Remember that most “gamers” are in fact, highly evolved monkies. They even use that as the basis of a belief system. Never forget!

[Al3xand3r]

Geoff, well I’m sure it’d sell better than 33000 copies on PC, even Stardock’s niche 4X Strategy titles sell a LOT better than that. I’m sure you’ve heard of Galactic Civilizations II and its equally popular expansions. Heck maybe they could publish it on Impulse. if it was Stardock approved many gamers would know of it and buy it just cos of that

You seem a little jaded with the industry, you need to delve further into niches perhaps, there’s good stuff to find out there. Check this upcoming Stardock game, read the journals for some awesome insight into their designs for the game.

You might also like to check out King’s Bounty I mentioned elsewhere, I wrote a shoddy amateur review of it here. And I’m currently trying to get the hang of Space Rangers 2. It’s weird, but kind of cool, like a very advanced version of shrapnel games’ Weird Worlds: Return to Infinite Space.

Andromeda, I only mentioned Dead Space flopping because YOU acted like that’s the important thing when it suit you, not because I don’t think Wii games have flopped. Just odd that you first crit games for flopping, then you bring examples of games that flopped as good. The contradiction I mentioned, you know? Fatal Frame is a niche series thanks to its slow pace and overall awkwardness, but hey, it’s yet to be released here anyway, what are you comparing? Once again weird comparisons like your “Dead Rising vs Zack & Wiki” that don’t fit at all, great.

For the large IP thing, I didn’t only back it up with the spin offs you know, I also mentioned actual games and their effect on the industry. Moot.

I never said I can play all 360 games on PC or that all are western so, whatever.

[Team_Andromeda]

Never said I can play all 360 games on PC or that all are western so, moot, talking to yourself again.

Here you go again , always trying to make out that’s not what you implied . Why even bring it up inthe 1st place .

I quite like playing Everbody Golf and Val on my PS3 , now you can’t play them onthe PC,and I also think they were developed in Japan

I only mentioned Dead Space flopping because YOU acted like that’s the important thing when it suit you, not because I don’t think Wii games have flopped.

You were the one that started to bring is sales in to this , with some choice comments about people then getting are whinny .

I just pointed out the simple facts that 360 games tend to sell the best in charts and 3rd party seem to back that console more . Now try and counter those arguments, instead of trying to make out you are the innocent poor victim in all this .

[Al3xand3r]

I did? I think you got it all wrong in that head of yours. I was in an altogether different discussion and you jumped in talking about Nights’ sales, as if it was a game that deserved to be a hit and the bad Wii users destroyed it, which is the only thing I (admidetdly exagerated) implied with my comments about Valkyria and the PS3 users.

So, it had nothing to do with proving a console, userbase, or game are 100% bad thanks to a given flop, which is what you’ve been trying to do with anything related to the Wii. Was just emphasising the shame it is that Valkyria didn’t sell well.

Of course, the comment was related to Nintendo thanks to the word “casual” I used so you just HAD to come in and argue over it. If I had simply said “PS3 (then 2) fans were the death of the Dreamcast and now they won’t even buy good SEGA games like Valkyria on their own system and yet call other gamers insult_x” you’d be fine with it I guess.

[Team_Andromeda]

Don’t come up with this I came in load of old tosh .

The fact that you responded to it speaks volumes as does leaving comments like beloved .

Its seems to me that its not just core gamers that are whiny little bitches

[Al3xand3r]

So because I own a Wii I’m not a core gamer? Sweet.

Nice to see you take a joke response I made to someone else’s statements, and act as if I said it to you with the intent to insult you.

That’s twice now, and you claim I take things out of context, ha. I guess I was right, even though it was a joke. It only took one mention, and this thread turned like all the other gaming forums out there, who have nothing but hatred for the Wii, and which is what I implied with the joke initially anyway.