Valkyria Chronicles

SEGA
21

Given that it’s compared to Sakura Wars, I’d anticipate that it’s less a fusion of genres than it is splitting the game in two - chiefly a dating sim/visual novel, with the odd fight sequence dropped in here and there to bookend long conversation trees.

As for Valkyria Chronicles, it looks very interesting and I’m glad to see that it’s been positively received, but I won’t be buying it - I like to support Sega where I can, but I’m a Microsoft Man and I can’t justify buying a PS3 for just one game, particularly when I’m on an overdraft.

It’s interesting to note that Sega could well be extending Valkyria Chronicles’s distinctive battle system elsewhere, though. This month’s GamesTM announced a new Shining Force game being developed for the DS - Shining Force Feather is its current name - which will apparently be using the same game mechanics.

22

Sales figures are in… Valkyria Chronicles sold a pathetic 33K copies in the US. Every time Sega tries something new and ships a quality product, it ends up selling like total crap. Oh well, I guess yet another title gets to join the ranks of Jet Set Radio and Panzer Dragoon.

23

Well, correct me if I’m wrong, but they didn’t really advertise the game, not even online, though that’s a small error compared to not having any large scale tv and mainstream magazine ad campaigns. They didn’t risk putting money in it when they brought it to the West, so there’s no money to take back.

Unless of course I’m wrong and they did extensive marketing that I simply never saw since I’m not in the target countries, but usually when a title is hyped in such ways, I take notice also, while with this game I wasn’t even sure of when it got released, I just saw a few reviews pop up out of nowhere after barely any previews or other sorts of hype at all.

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Sega apparently didn’t expect it to sell since there aren’t a lot of copies available, a lot of people actually have difficulty finding the game. I just hope they won’t cancel the DLC now.

25

Well, there are two potential reasons for that - either retail didn’t believe in the product, or retail didn’t believe that Sega believed in the product. The publisher would almost never limit the number of units manufactured to be less than what retail wanted to purchase. It is the other way around (publisher pushing retail to take more copies) 99% of the time. The various things that would cause a retailer to not take large quantities of a product would be their perceived appeal/marketability of the product, the current competitive landscape (how full are their shelves already?), performance of the publisher on past titles, how big of a marketing campaign is being proposed, etc.

It’s often a feedback loop of self-confirmation. A publisher perceives a title as a niche title, so puts a small marketing campaign together; the retailers sees it as a niche title, looks at publisher’s marketing proposal and confirms it is a niche title, takes small quantities.

To be honest, in the case of a game like Valkyria, I’m not sure how effective a large marketing campaign would have been. It’s still a strategy RPG (which remain largely hardcore), cel shaded, and based on a bizarre blend of fantasy and WW2. It’s still a fantastic game, but lacks mainstream appeal. Could it have performed better? Oh, I definitely think so. But not necessarily blockbuster.

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That’s the thing… I don’t think anyone was expecting blockbuster sales. But 33K is really, really awful. Even Atlus’ niche titles do better than that.

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That’s an excellent point you bring up, Parn… but that was on PS2. Disgaea 3, for example, has only sold 54K. A far cry from the 100K+ that 1 and 2 sold on the PS2 (though admittedly, the PSP and DS versions didn’t far nearly as well).

So it’s either that people have no interest in that sort of game, or that the userbase on the PS3 isn’t large enough to support niche titles yet. Either way, it’s unfortunate :frowning:

28

The main issue here is still that most people don’t even know the game exists. They might have had interest, the userbase might have been large enough to support the title but unfortunately we’ll never know that because Sega didn’t try to find out. Everyone I talked to that preordered the game already knew it wasn’t going to sell because of the lack of marketing. Here’s what the president of US publishing for Ubisoft said regarding the sales of BG&E a few years ago:

[quote]JC: Well yes, however, look at Beyond Good and Evil. Critically acclaimed, graphics, animations, gameplay. Why didn?t it bust out?

GS: And what was the answer you guys came up with internally?

JC: Well, we didn’t push it. We didn’t go deep and try and go as far with the marketing campaign. We didn’t put $10 million behind that. And the idea was to see the strength of the game community, and all the editors said they loved it, and the people who went and bought the game went and grabbed it, but it didn’t sell like gangbusters. [/quote]

Ubisoft learned from that mistake and it shows today. Sega however still doesn’t understand and that also shows.

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All this shows me, is that SEGA Japan are really behind the times. All major games these days need to go Multi Platform, and now more than ever SEGA Japan needs to look to the western market and make games with also that Market in mind .

I hope they let other games and other Teams use the Canvas Engine too

30

D-Unit: Ubisoft also hasn’t really made anything like it since then, either, so I suppose you could say that yes, they did learn their lesson :stuck_out_tongue: (I know they’re making a sequel, just joking.) In all seriousness, just because you market something, doesn’t mean it will sell. I can name quite a few games that were critically acclaimed and marketed heavily, but simply didn’t sell. Seaman, Mirror’s Edge, Little Big Planet, Pure, Skies of Arcadia, Panzer Dragoon Orta… the list goes on. Same thing happens in every entertainment industry. Not saying that Sega couldn’t have sold more units no matter what it did, just saying that there would be severely diminishing returns for whatever marketing money could have been spent on it. So, a company has to make a choice - do you spend the marketing money on product A or product B? Product A is critically acclaimed, but for every $100 you spend, you’ll only sell 4 additional units. Product B isn’t as high quality, but has broader appeal, so for every $100 you spend, you’ll sell 6 additional units. Which would be the better choice? The numbers and whatnot here are complete fiction, but the choice is essentially the same. There is only a finite amount of money at any given publisher to spend, so people need to make choices. Doesn’t mean it was the right choice in this case, just saying that it was the choice that was made given what was known.

And Tema Andromeda is absolutely right - there is no 1 platform that is dominating the core gamer market right now. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to go single platform unless a deal is made with 1st party.

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I know one platform that’s dominating core gamers making them whiny little bitches at every mention of it :stuck_out_tongue:

As far as I’m concerned, when people don’t buy things like Valkyria, and on the PS3 for that matter, there’s no excuse for them to call others casual gamers…

Anyway, so, SEGA re-registered Virtual-On. What do you know about it? TELL!

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^I very clearly recall that never stopping the Gamecubs from calling XBOTS (or even pretty much anyone else) casual gamers, for like four years… >_>

And for that matter I’d avoid even trying to go there until there’s any real evidence in favor of “hard core” games having any better chance on… whatever other console you may be alluding to? :wink:

It seems likely this title did have some small exclusivity agreement, since it’s the type of game Sony may have wanted to shore up their status in Japan at least. If not, then it’d be a real shame they didn’t put it out for both HD platforms. I intend to pick it up soon anyway, I’m always a pushover for cel-shading and everyone seems to agree there’s some depth in the system.

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Actually, one of the issues is the labeling of casual vs core. It’s not so black and white anymore. I tend to break it down into the following:

  • Picnic Gamers (i.e. they play party-like games with large groups, primarily family)
  • Hobbyists (i.e. consider themselves gamers, but stick to top 10 hits)
  • Elite Core (i.e. gaming is their primary hobby, and look for more meaning to their games)
    etc.
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In a way it’s never really been black and white, but when simply being a gamer used to mean you were into something that’s inherently a niche activity then niches within the hobby didn’t mean as much. Now you’ve got people who may think core means playing RPG’s and other cerebral / less pop genres… or others may think you aren’t core unless you play and finish every FPS and high challenge action game that comes out.

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Well, yeah… that was sort of my point. The gamer labels used to identify the specific types of games you played. Now, it’s much more of a distinction of how you play and the reasons you play games.

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Agreed and I honestly wasn’t trying to rearrange your own point either… just my own observation that for some people it seems to be defined almost more by the very act of playing unpopular games, as opposed to playing lots of games period, or even how much you pwn at them. :anjou_love:

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[quote=“Al3xand3r”]I know one platform that’s dominating core gamers making them whiny little bitches at every mention of it :stuck_out_tongue:

[/quote]

Shame then its software sales for 3rd parties aren’t that great, more so given the user base. Its not NiGHTS sold well on that platform, and Okami flopped a bit too , that’s after rave reviews and everyone seemingly to what it to go on the WiI. Maybe I’m wrong but I think the likes of Ubi and Capcom have done better on the 360 or PS3 ? .

To be fair though didn’t Seaman do well in Japan ? and I thought SOA did ok in Japan too, and to be more be fair by the times the likes of SOA came out inthe West , most people had already given up on the DC And bar Shenmue II inthe USA I doubt many games could or would have sold great (no matter how great they were)

Pure was rubbish in my view , and I still can’t see what all the fuss was about with LBP, its more like a level editor than a game . It is a shame about the likes of Mirror’s Edge though, same goes for Deep Space , they were really good games and should have sold more

Imo SEGA has massive issues with its marketing too , I mean where is it ?. Every time Capcom or Ubisoft bring out a big game , not only is multi platform , but its backed up with a 2 week TV marketing campaign. Its hit and miss if you see a SEGA advert inthe press, never mind on TV

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Rave reviews? On Nights? Did the game really deserve to be a hit? From what I gathered it only held value for the nostalgic gamer, and I don’t feel that nostalgic. Perhaps I’ll pick it up if I find it cheap locally.

What has Capcom put out on the system? A New IP which is always a risk and it flopped, and a port of a game everyone had played already on the PS2/GC and yet it still got over a million sales (RE4). I’m sure their Tatsunoko Vs. Capcom will also be a runaway success in Japan and if it ever finds its way here. Then they have Monster Hunter 3 in development which will again dominate sales in Japan and the Dead Rising spin off, which looks shite and will likely flop.

As for Okami, well, it also flopped on its first platform if I’m not mistaken, which had an even larger user base at the time. And again, was it actually advertised? Capcom just didn’t have faith in the game ever since it was created.

Really, their success on Wii so far reflects their selection of games, and it will probably continue to be the same in the future, not counting the likely unbelievable sales MH3 will achieve. I’m just glad they make more good games than bad ones, but why couldn’t they just skip on the bad ones altogether and put a little more effort in the good ones then?

As for SEGA, I’m pretty sure they get decent success on the Wii, otherwise why would they make yet another Wii-exclusive Sonic, Mad World, picked up The Conduit to publish for the Wii, outsourced House of the Dead again for the Wii only, etc? Kind of excessive if their past games didn’t sell so good.

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I did really mean Okami

True, though Capcom’s new IP like DR and Lost Planet each sold over a millon onthe 360 .

It sold ok, and don’t talk about userbase as the Wii like you say as the bigger user base of all the current home consoles , that is just not reflected in the sales charts , and that what 3rd parties care about.

People use to say if Only Okami came out onthe Cube it could have been so different (mind you they said the same about JSRF) , and how it was meant for the Wii latter on. Most 3rd parties tend to do better on non NCL platforms

I smell a nice deal with NCL there, that can only explain why Capcom would put MH III onthe machine with the poorest Network setup .

Yeah non gamers , which explains why Wii Fit is selling so well. To me the typical Wii user , buys the system , and Wii Play and maybe one other game and that’s it . That’s the trouble , Wii got all these new breed of gamers , that have little interest in playing , much less buying games every week .

Maybe that why even with by far the bigger userbase , 360 games tend to make up of the charts , and some of the biggest 3rd party sellers are on either the 360 or PS3, just ask TakeTwo

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Edit: Just saw you also mentioned Ubi at first. What Wii owner in his right mind would trust the company that brought us Red Steel, Far Cry (even worse), and all the games that end with a Z? They might just redeem themselves with Red Steel 2 if they put the effort, but why would you wonder why Ubisoft don’t do well on Wii when all their games are shite?

The PS2 still has a larger base, and that’s where the game was first. It was an equal flop on that as it was on the Wii, so how can it suddenly mean the Wii isn’t good for games? The same would apply on the PS2 in that case and I think most would disagree, heh.

I thought we were talking about Capcom there you know, not Nintendo. I don’t think RE4, a port which in theory would sell like shit since so many people played it on PS2 and GC (and er, PC?) sold over a million copies (so a port sold more than your new Dead Rising and Lost Planet?), would fit in the same category as Wii Fit. If anything, it’s even more of a core game than Zack & Wiki which flopped.

Also, comparing Zack & Wiki to Dead Rising? I don’t think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out which game has more mass market appeal. Zack & Wiki wasn’t only a new IP, it was a niche game to begin with, with no real marketing behind it. The complete opposite of Lost Planet and Dead Rising basicaly.

Monster Hunter 3, there might be a deal. Then again, there might be a deal for FFXIII on 360 too. And just about every other JRPG which went that way instead of any of the Japan-centric systems. Does it really matter? I doubt MH3 will remain an exclusive anyway, while it’s easy to believe they started with the Wii to reduce development costs. For networking, I doubt it’s going to be much of a pain to build it. The game works similar to Phantasy Star Online, and if that thing worked on Dreamcast and GameCube, it’s possible for the Wii to handle a system like that fine also.

Anyway, nice to see you ignored most of what was said or 100% forgot some of your previous points to give no new reference to. From SEGA and CAPCOM you went to just CAPCOM and Wii Fit, while ignoring anything I added in my response, lol?

As for what the average Wii user is “to you” who really gives a damn, lol. Nintendo’s games have the quality and the marketing behind them and are constantly in the top spots. Mario Kart still getting in the charts so many months after release.

All that shows third parties what they need is quality, mass appeal and marketing, not just one, or the other, just as in every platform. Square know they can do it for example, hence Dragon Quest X. One more heavy-duty developer and franchise to join Sega and Capcom’s new-found faith in the system then, hurray. I thought they gave up after Crystal Bearers disappeared but this announcement shows the opposite.