Sega sucks

[Ehndow]

Unless you take advantage of people not really

Actually I remember finding the TV adverts for the DC good.I dunno if it was marketing…

I reckon Kutaragi made a pact with the Devil.

[Team_Andromeda]

Heh… really? That’s news to me. Given that I’m good friends with Yu-san and Kodama-san, you figured I’d know, eh?

C’Mon what are they up too :P.
Its a shame Kodam last effort didn’t take off as I quite liked it (Project Altered Beast).

Whats Yu up too ?, Is he working on any next gen projects ?, or is he just drinking his fav wine :P.

SEGA Japan should really be starting to show off next gen projects or is it going to be late to the races again ???. A fact which cost it dear this gen

[Kadamose]

Its a shame Kodam last effort didn’t take off as I quite liked it (Project Altered Beast).

That game is a perfect example of just how low Sega has sunk these past few years. PAB was a terrible, terrible game…but then again, anything released for the PS2 by Sega generally is.

[Team_Andromeda]

[quote=“Gehpnaet”]Unless you take advantage of people not really

Actually I remember finding the TV adverts for the DC good.I dunno if it was marketing…

I reckon Kutaragi made a pact with the Devil.[/quote]

They were ok and fair play to SOA they made a really effort with it. They just didn’t have the money to back the machine, after the poor sales in Japan and Europe.

Oh I so love to punch the lights out of that idot Jean Francois Cecillon and the monkeys at SEGA Europe at the time of the DC.

Yes that idot Jean Cecillon was quite happily spending all of SEGA money on sponsoring every football team known to man in Europe.
Only to fail to make sure that DC had a good Football game in the 1st place, or bring Smilebit?s Let Make a J. League to Europe.

A game which at the time looked simply ace, and Football management games were and still are big business on both console and PC.
Yet SEGA Europe never even tried to bring the Saturn or DC managements games to Europe.

Good old Cecillon was spending yet more money on pointless beach ball Football tournaments and adverts showing somebody sending a E-Mail saying… ?I bet you on Soul Calibur? .

Yes that right the baboons at SEGA Europe chose to advertise what was the best looking game at that time on national TV by showing someone sending a e-mail (I mean I ask you).
Still I should have expected no less. As the same monkeys chose to bring VT after Wimbledon as they thought it would be better to launch the Virtual Tennis during the New York Open *Bangs head against the wall *

Then rememeber that 6 Billion players rubbish…?
That?s a laugh as SEGA Europe won?t let users enter their own ISP details and that meant the end of any hope of people playing their DC online in Europe for any length of time (Brilliant!!!).

Then if that wasn?t bad enough, after those idiots going on the Football spending spree . SEGA Europe didn?t have enough money to market the machine when it had its best line up of games like Shenmue, Quake III, JSR, VT.

My God Child, could have done a better job of running SEGA Europe and she only 8.

[Team_Andromeda]

[quote=“Kadamose”]

Its a shame Kodam last effort didn’t take off as I quite liked it (Project Altered Beast).

That game is a perfect example of just how low Sega has sunk these past few years. PAB was a terrible, terrible game…but then again, anything released for the PS2 by Sega generally is.[/quote]

I like the game, Its fun and action Packed and I love the B-Horror type setting , the FMV is brilliant too. Shame in parts in looks like a PS game.

That the problem with SEGA Japan at the mo, they can?t program to save their lives (not even on the X-Box these days).
Capcom are no longer SEGA friends, but their rivals (as much as I like Capcom).
Look at their PS2 effort and they cream SEGA’s both in the gameplay and more embarrassing the Graphics dept .

Capcom is a company structured much like SEGA with its production studios , hell they even had their money worries just like SEGA.

Yet they are pushing the PS2 to the limits. While SEGA PS2 games look like PS games. I?ve seen better graphics in Saturn games that those found in Nightshade.
Blood Will Tell is just totally outclassed by Onimusha III, never mind DMC III or even the 1st one

[Kadamose]

I don’t know about Capcom being rivals of Sega…about a year ago, there was an RPG development of 3 studios…Sega, someone else, and Capcom. I don’t know the name of the game or any other details…I just remember the-magicbox mentioning it.

[Kadamose]

I like the game, Its fun and action Packed and I love the B-Horror type setting , the FMV is brilliant too. Shame in parts in looks like a PS game.

That the problem with SEGA Japan at the mo, they can?t program to save their lives (not even on the X-Box these days).

Well, as much as I despise PDO, it was definitely a gorgeous game, and definitely the best looking next-gen game Sega has produced this generation.

When we see PDS II, (which is very soon), all of Sega’s past sins will be forgiven.

[Abadd]

Sorry… missed this post.

[quote=“Team Andromeda”]Those are games any 3rd party could pick up. Wow yet another Burnout clone, big deal at the end of the day
I have Out Run II and BO III and Burnout III pales in comparison.
hough like I say, this could be a money spinner for SOA given today?s market.[/quote]

You honestly think BOIII is a worse game than OutRunII? I mean, it’s a fun game and all, but personally, I think it’s shallow in comparison… comparison being the key word. ORII is leagues better than a lot of other racing games out there, but I think the BO series is top notch.

Another thing you have to remember is that a concept in the hands of different publishers will turn out very differently. So, while it is true that anybody could have picked up those two titles, they will undoubtedly be influenced by Sega.

On the flip side of things, does it really matter? I mean, do you slam a movie like Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind because it wasn’t made internally at Focus Pictures? Not that Sega doesn’t appreciate it, but as I’ve asked before, why the inexplicable brand loyalty? A corporation should only be as good as the product it produces. Sure, there is a nostalgia factor attached, but that was then, this is now. For example, Atari has a big place in my heart for all the memories on the 2600. But, do I blindly buy Atari products now? Does it even bother me that I don’t? Not really.

C?mon Abadd its fair enough sticking up for SEGA Japan but there comes a time you have to criticize them for their own good. I love my family but if I think they?re in the wrong sometimes you have to say so for their own good.

This further emphasizes my last question: why the blind loyalty?

But what happened to the days when SEGA was showing off the likes of ORTA, JSRF, Monkey Ball, and Sega GT, HOTD ect.

The public basically voted those out of existence by showing they didn’t care about those products. What do you expect Sega to do? Keep pumping them out, despite the fact that they weren’t selling?

Really at the top of their game, of late they can?t make good looking games (something which I?m simply not use too from SEGA). Look at Spikeout a great game, but SEGA put sod all effort into the graphics, and there bugs on the very 1st level, and they still can?t get the LIVE part right.

Sega has never gotten online right, aside from maybe PSO. The DC’s online was an utter mess (part of the pain of being the first). And to be honest, Sega’s graphics have never been #1, with a few exceptions (primarily accomplished through art direction, not better graphics).

SEGA GT Online is a AAA racing game and I love it, but WOW messed up the Online part with the worst lobby system I?ve seen, shame too has ideas like trading cars and items ect have now been copied by Forza. That game will get all the credit SEGA GT gets none.

Sure, it means a lot to do something first, but it means even more to do it right. Take a look at the iPod. Was it the first MP3 player? No, but it did it right. Now the term iPod is synonimous with MP3 player.

In the Saturn and DC the problem was money and marketing. Funny now SEGA money worries are all gone. SEGA output just haven?t been what it was. Its almost like their were better with no money at all.

It was a downward spiral. The cycle couldn’t continue forever. It’s like rockstars… they party hard for so long, but eventually, it catches up to them.

You were at E3 right ? On the PS2 you were seeing games like Shadow Of The Colossus and Okami. Games that had the sort of vision and style people associated with SEGA just a few years back.

No doubt. But, to be fair, these games put everyone to shame. It’s not like these games came out from left field and only impressed a couple of people. Across the industry, those titles (and teams) are creating waves. I mean, is it so incomprehensible that at some point, someone was going to come along and be better?

Shame too as SEGA Back Arcade catalogue is the best there is what with the System and Model series of games. All we want if perfect ports. Not these half assed updates, by what seems to be school kids doing a school project with the Ages range.

Oh man, you don’t even know half the story with the Ages stuff. Don’t get me started

As for Kodama-san and Altered Beast, lets just say that she did what she could with what she was given. I shall say no more.

And yes, Yu-san enjoys a good glass of wine. Can you blame him?

[Solo_Wing]

[quote=“Abadd”]

You were at E3 right ? On the PS2 you were seeing games like Shadow Of The Colossus and Okami. Games that had the sort of vision and style people associated with SEGA just a few years back.

No doubt. But, to be fair, these games put everyone to shame. It’s not like these games came out from left field and only impressed a couple of people. Across the industry, those titles (and teams) are creating waves. I mean, is it so incomprehensible that at some point, someone was going to come along and be better?[/quote]

I think what Team Andromeda is saying, is that if games featuring that level of creativity can be released by other companies, then why not from Sega?

[Geoffrey]

I think Phantasy Star Universe and Shadow the Hedgehog (with their high production values) will mark a return to form for Sega this generation. At least we have Panzer Dragoon Orta and Virtua Fighter 4 to brag about.

Sega needs to aim much higher during the next generation cycle. Even now that everyone is so reluctant to risk funding (more) original games, they may have no choice if they hope to distinguish themselves from the competition, or should we just expect the exact same games with flashier graphics? Who knows… and who really cares anymore?

[Abadd]

I know, and my point is that someone will always be better. That’s like asking why Einstein’s contemporaries couldn’t think up the theory of relativity. Because they weren’t able to, simple as that. Why can’t Dreamworks make a movie as good as Pixar? Why can’t all anime be as good as Cowboy Bebop or anything by Miyzaki? Because not everyone is of equal skill.

As for the next generation… I think we’ll see even more indy developers disappear, but will force publishers to try to differentiate themselves, since the market will be flooded with similar titles. And, hopefully, after this generation, we’ll see a return of the true indy developer, once the technology curve starts to flatten (or rather, the effective technology curve, given that after a certain point, people will stop caring how many polygons a system can output, etc), and we see an emergence of more middleware.

[Team_Andromeda]

[quote]You honestly think BOIII is a worse game than OutRunII? I mean, it’s a fun game and all, but personally, I think it’s shallow in comparison… comparison being the key word. ORII is leagues better than a lot of other racing games out there, but I think the BO series is top notch.

Another thing you have to remember is that a concept in the hands of different publishers will turn out very differently. So, while it is true that anybody could have picked up those two titles, they will undoubtedly be influenced by Sega.

On the flip side of things, does it really matter? I mean, do you slam a movie like Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind because it wasn’t made internally at Focus Pictures? Not that Sega doesn’t appreciate it, but as I’ve asked before, why the inexplicable brand loyalty? A corporation should only be as good as the product it produces. Sure, there is a nostalgia factor attached, but that was then, this is now. For example, Atari has a big place in my heart for all the memories on the 2600. But, do I blindly buy Atari products now? Does it even bother me that I don’t? Not really. [/quote]

Oh BO III is not even close to Out Run II.
Yeah it?s a fun and well produced game. But it fun for a weekend before it get boring. Out Run II as that classic SEGA one more go magic , and those trademark power drifts .
I?ve said it before nobody, makes a better racer than SEGA or Yu Suzuki .

And believe you me, it does matter if SEGA Japan makes it or not. Otherwise what the point of having some 1,500 staff on the pay role.
Why not get rid of most of them and just become a 3rd party publisher . Hell lets hand out VF 5 to Midway to give it a nice western feel while we?re at it.
Please I buy SEGA games for them to make them and nobody else. Because nobody makes a better Fighter than SEGA for example

Your notion about Atari is falled btw mate (don?t want to sound nasty).
The bigg diff is Nolan Bushnell sold off the Arcade and Consumer side to separate company’s.
So Atari in the home were diff to Atari in the Arcades and its showed.
Now unless I missed mass walk outs or sell offs of the Arcade divisions .
SEGA Arcade , and Consumer divisions are part of the same company and work under the same roof .

This further emphasizes my last question: why the blind loyalty?

Its hardly blind when I’m finding faluts with SEGA. Unlike some of the NCL fanboys that sallow every bad move them make.
And at the end of the day I’m loyal.

I still think Jackie Chan is the best, I still support Q.P.R Football Club (even after them going down 2 divisons), and still cheer on Ferrari (F1) and MS even though they are nowhere this season.
I quess I live in hope that SEGA Japan can turn it around , and that its just down to them giving up on this gen.

The public basically voted those out of existence by showing they didn’t care about those products. What do you expect Sega to do? Keep pumping them out, despite the fact that they weren’t selling?

Well for a start Monkeyball sold ok, and TN said that he’s working on part III (or is SEGA going to cancel that too).
But I was on about the Quality of production more than anything else. They were top quality production , all in stark contrast to some of the games SEGA brought out this past 3 years. Which look like 1991 3DFX games. Nightshade and SpikeOut were shockers in the graphics dept.

Sega has never gotten online right, aside from maybe PSO. The DC’s online was an utter mess (part of the pain of being the first). And to be honest, Sega’s graphics have never been #1, with a few exceptions (primarily accomplished through art direction, not better graphics).

Sorry that is for me utter rubbish. DC was my 1st taste of online gamming and had top fun playing the likes of Alien Front Online Daytona USA online , Quake III, Unreal
Even though I was using USA Servers I got little lag. And PSO was just somthing else.

As for graphics that so wrong its not even funny.
Still today few games (if any) have come to modelling Human beings as well as those in Shenmue (the Face demos are good enough for today?s tech demos), never mind the environments .
I’m playing Jade Empire at the mo, and its funny to see the humans in that world, not a patch on those in the 1999 Shenmue.

AM#2 were known for their programming skills, now Team Ninja have sort of stolen their thunder some what.

I still have the tape of E3 2001 and Smilebit were pushing the X-Box better than most with the 10% complete JSRF, and the early demo of GV.
Then not long after they made the best looking X-Box bar none.
Which still some 3 years latter is stillone the best looking X-Box games ever created.

Games like HOTD III (brilliant graphics on the fat guys) , SEGA GT (the best cars models after GT 3 /4), Monkeyball II all looked class.
And hardly any game as come close to the vision and art style in REZ, that game was a master class in what SEGA Teams could do when let lose.
Look at those tech demos shows SEGA still have some of the most talented artist and programmers around.
I can?t think of one single SEGA coin up that looked poor this past 10 years. Why is it, that its just the last 2 to 3 years Sega?s graphics dropped for the home all of a sudden (was it just down the mergers and take over talks), so the share holders weren’t going to splash the cash).

Sure, it means a lot to do something first, but it means even more to do it right. Take a look at the iPod. Was it the first MP3 player? No, but it did it right. Now the term iPod is synonimous with MP3 player.

Point taken, but really the lobby system in SEGA GT should have been better. With a bit more work it could have been the racer to get for LIVE play.

[quote]It was a downward spiral. The cycle couldn’t continue forever. It’s like rockstars… they party hard for so long, but eventually, it catches up to them.
[/quote]

Ok thats a faor point. Its amazing that SEGA are even still around, with what they had to go through.

No doubt. But, to be fair, these games put everyone to shame. It’s not like these games came out from left field and only impressed a couple of people. Across the industry, those titles (and teams) are creating waves. I mean, is it so incomprehensible that at some point, someone was going to come along and be better?

Games like Out Run II SP, and Ollie King show me SEGA as just as much talent. It be nice to play those sort of games in the home thought.

[Team_Andromeda]

[quote=“Solo Wing Dragon”]

You were at E3 right ? On the PS2 you were seeing games like Shadow Of The Colossus and Okami. Games that had the sort of vision and style people associated with SEGA just a few years back.

No doubt. But, to be fair, these games put everyone to shame. It’s not like these games came out from left field and only impressed a couple of people. Across the industry, those titles (and teams) are creating waves. I mean, is it so incomprehensible that at some point, someone was going to come along and be better?

I think what Team Andromeda is saying, is that if games featuring that level of creativity can be released by other companies, then why not from Sega?[/quote]

Yes that my point SEGA is a similar sized corp to Capcom they?ve both had their fair share of money worries and Team restructures and what have you. Why is SEGA been outclassed so much by them of late in the graphics and game engine dept?.
When a few years SEGA were up there with the best of them (with the likes of ORTA, VF 4).

Look at From Software they?re smaller than AM/RD #2(one team in the SEGA group). Yet they making games with memorising graphics with O.TO.GI II. And most of their PS2 productions have had decent engines . Their new 360 RPG looks just sensational.

If these Teams can do it, Really SEGA should be able to compete with their on the graphics front if nothing else.

SEGA really needs to make soothing that grabs the public and press attention . Because they?re being overlooked so much.
It getting to the stage where most people don?t care if SEGA goes under or not

[Abadd]

[quote=“Team Andromeda”]Oh BO III is not even close to Out Run II.
Yeah it?s a fun and well produced game. But it fun for a weekend before it get boring. Out Run II as that classic SEGA one more go magic , and those trademark power drifts .
I?ve said it before nobody, makes a better racer than SEGA or Yu Suzuki.[/quote]

Man… I guess this is just a difference in opinion, but it was the exact opposite for me. Particularly the Crash Mode in BO. A friend of mine and I just sat around playing that mode for hours to see who could get the highest scores. With OR2, for me, once I got the drift down, the game lost all challenge =\

Oh, and I hate to break it to you… Yu Suzuki didn’t make OutRun 2.

And believe you me, it does matter if SEGA Japan makes it or not. Otherwise what the point of having some 1,500 staff on the pay role. Why not get rid of most of them and just become a 3rd party publisher . Hell lets hand out VF 5 to Midway to give it a nice western feel while we?re at it. Please I buy SEGA games for them to make them and nobody else. Because nobody makes a better Fighter than SEGA for example.

But whether or not those 1500 people are on the staff are not of consequence to the gamer, are they? Particularly if they’re not making anything you want to play. And what if Midway ended up making a better VF? Not that I’m saying it’s likely, just saying that a good game is a good game, regardless of where it comes from. Obsidian did a fine job with KOTOR (aside from the massive amounts of bugs). Did that bother gamers? Not one bit.

Your notion about Atari is falled btw mate (don?t want to sound nasty). The bigg diff is Nolan Bushnell sold off the Arcade and Consumer side to separate company’s. So Atari in the home were diff to Atari in the Arcades and its showed. Now unless I missed mass walk outs or sell offs of the Arcade divisions. SEGA Arcade , and Consumer divisions are part of the same company and work under the same roof.

Again, though, this shouldn’t be of consequence to the gamer. If they’re kept in house or sold out, as long as the games are still quality. However, they weren’t, so I stopped buying their product, and simply stopped caring. It’s as simple as that, isn’t it?

Its hardly blind when I’m finding faluts with SEGA. Unlike some of the NCL fanboys that sallow every bad move them make. And at the end of the day I’m loyal.

Well, it is blind loyalty when you’re talking about all their faults, and still remain loyal. I’m still a Nintendo fan because they produce games that I genuinely enjoy.

Well for a start Monkeyball sold ok, and TN said that he’s working on part III (or is SEGA going to cancel that too). But I was on about the Quality of production more than anything else. They were top quality production , all in stark contrast to some of the games SEGA brought out this past 3 years. Which look like 1991 3DFX games. Nightshade and SpikeOut were shockers in the graphics dept.

I was primarily talking about the other titles, but Monkey Ball hasn’t been given up on yet. Delux just released in the US. SpikeOut was also done by the same guy as Monkey Ball. The level of graphical fidelity is quite similar, actually. Can you tell what the difference is?

As for Nightshade, it’s actually an improvement over Shinobi, so I don’t know why that title is always thrown out when talking about bad graphics. People hardly ever mention Shinobi… why tear a new one for Nightshade? Same team, 9 months later.

Sorry that is for me utter rubbish. DC was my 1st taste of online gamming and had top fun playing the likes of Alien Front Online Daytona USA online , Quake III, Unreal. Even though I was using USA Servers I got little lag. And PSO was just somthing else.

Didn’t say that the games weren’t fun. Was just saying that Sega had no idea what it was doing. Ever wonder why you had to redo your internet settings for certain games? Ever hear about how so many people simply couldn’t connect to various servers? It was completely disorganized. TRUST me on this one.

As for graphics that so wrong its not even funny. Still today few games (if any) have come to modelling Human beings as well as those in Shenmue (the Face demos are good enough for today?s tech demos), never mind the environments. I’m playing Jade Empire at the mo, and its funny to see the humans in that world, not a patch on those in the 1999 Shenmue.

Not so sure about that. Shenmue 2 for Xbox was generally slammed for looking dated. Jade Empire’s faces are rendered at a much higher quality level, but I think you’re confusing art style and graphical fidelity.

AM#2 were known for their programming skills, now Team Ninja have sort of stolen their thunder some what.

This, I don’t agree with. Team Ninja is simply known for their graphics/character design. AM2 is known for their programming. They have never been known for great character design (they’ve been known for good graphics, but not in the same way).

As for graphics, I guarantee you, nothing has changed. It’s still the same people doing the same thing. It’s just that you’re ignoring a lot of the other games. Bass Fishing 2, Aero Elite, Tennis 2, etc for the PS2?

Point taken, but really the lobby system in SEGA GT should have been better. With a bit more work it could have been the racer to get for LIVE play.

Not sure about that. I really didn’t think the physics stood up well in comparison to other racers. And you think it trumps Rallisport and PGR?

[Arcie]

Big difference between Sega and Capcom is the latter has a greater number of established names in video games, namely Megaman (X), Street Fighter and Resident Evil/Biohazard. Sega pretty much only has Sonic and his assisting cast. It could have had NiGHTS or something, but it didn’t work out that way.

[Team_Andromeda]

[quote]Oh, and I hate to break it to you… Yu Suzuki didn’t make OutRun 2.
[/quote]

I know he just produced it thats all :P. Nah I know he had little involment with the game. And that it was Osaki baby.

[quote]Again, though, this shouldn’t be of consequence to the gamer. If they’re kept in house or sold out, as long as the games are still quality. However, they weren’t, so I stopped buying their product, and simply stopped caring. It’s as simple as that, isn’t it?
[/quote]

Harldy as Atari Arcade games were pretty decent for most of the 80’s and early 90’s. Diff story for the home as they were run by Tramiel famliy.

Trouble was kids on the street were under the impression that ATARI in the Arcade and Home were the same thing.
Atari computers had to pay fee’s to make any use of the Atari arcades games.
To Atari Arcades , Atari compuers were just another 3rd party, and it didn’t matter to them if they failed at all

With SEGA The consmuer teams didn’t have to pay to port, and thier could walk up Stairs and access any part information regarding the Arcade game.

Well, it is blind loyalty when you’re talking about all their faults, and still remain loyal. I’m still a Nintendo fan because they produce games that I genuinely enjoy.

.

But they still make the odd gem. But more and more its for the Arcades, which they can’t be assed to port. That’s the part that gets me.

[quote]I was primarily talking about the other titles, but Monkey Ball hasn’t been given up on yet. Delux just released in the US. SpikeOut was also done by the same guy as Monkey Ball. The level of graphical fidelity is quite similar, actually. Can you tell what the difference is?

As for Nightshade, it’s actually an improvement over Shinobi, so I don’t know why that title is always thrown out when talking about bad graphics. People hardly ever mention Shinobi… why tear a new one for Nightshade? Same team, 9 months later.

[/quote]

Yes I know Nagoshi said there room for III in the series when talking about Monkeyball. I hope it happend and this time we get LIVE play.

As for the graphics well Spikeout might share a bit with the original MB. But Monkeyball II looks miles better thanks to a better colour pallet And infinity better quality textures. Oh and unlike Spikeout there?s no objects going through one and another thanks to poor clipping. Like the way characters and objects go through solid buildings.

One expects just a bit better for a 3rd gen X-Box game that been in development for some 3 years.

Nightsahde plays worse for me than Shinobi, and it looks like a PS/Saturn game. was hoping for better return for such a loved SEGA Franchise.

Didn’t say that the games weren’t fun. Was just saying that Sega had no idea what it was doing. Ever wonder why you had to redo your internet settings for certain games? Ever hear about how so many people simply couldn’t connect to various servers? It was completely disorganized. TRUST me on this one

Ok I trust you. Just find it amazing that there’s more lag in SEGA LIVE games (apart from thier old ESPN range) than some DC games.

Not so sure about that. Shenmue 2 for Xbox was generally slammed for looking dated. Jade Empire’s faces are rendered at a much higher quality level, but I think you’re confusing art style and graphical fidelity

That becasue no effort was put into the port. Unlike JADE. Shenmue wasn’t bulit around the X-Box. You only have to look at Out Run II SP to see what AM#2 can do with a game bulit around X-Box Hardware.

This, I don’t agree with. Team Ninja is simply known for their graphics/character design. AM2 is known for their programming. They have never been known for great character design (they’ve been known for good graphics, but not in the same way).

There’s a lot of people that think Team Ninja are the best coders around these days. Most people then to laugh at AM#2 PS efforts. Even though they were pushing the system and it not really fait to compare VF 4 on the PS2 to DOA III running on the X-Box.

As for graphics, I guarantee you, nothing has changed. It’s still the same people doing the same thing. It’s just that you’re ignoring a lot of the other games. Bass Fishing 2, Aero Elite, Tennis 2, etc for the PS2?

Sorry I don’t get the point. For one thing with Bass Fishing VT II, I never expected much with as they were simple DC ports (and good ones at that)

Not sure about that. I really didn’t think the physics stood up well in comparison to other racers. And you think it trumps Rallisport and PGR?

Oh I do (maybe not RS II). PGR is just a bore fest in single player mode. SEGA GT handling is a joy and its got a great single player mode, with some decent AI, and brilliant corsue desgin.

Plus the Car Models are the tops (best on the X-Box). Super smooth 60 fsp and some lovley looking sun and refelction effects . Also what a lot of people lover over. It as hands down the best 5,1 effects out of all the X-Box racers .

[Team_Andromeda]

But whether or not those 1500 people are on the staff are not of consequence to the gamer, are they? Particularly if they’re not making anything you want to play. And what if Midway ended up making a better VF? Not that I’m saying it’s likely, just saying that a good game is a good game, regardless of where it comes from. Obsidian did a fine job with KOTOR (aside from the massive amounts of bugs). Did that bother gamers? Not one bit.

Ok I did go in to a sad bit fanboy mode. The point I’m trying to make is that for HALO fans who would they rather see make HALO III.

BUNGIE or sombody like Electronic Arts LA studios. I think most would fell just that bit better with Bungie making it.
Look at the rubbish that was Namco’s Star Fox on the CUBE. Maybe it would have been better if NCL made it in-Hosue.

[Abadd]

But what is it that really matters? That Bungie makes it? Or that Halo 3 doesn’t suck? If someone else were to come in and make a kick ass Halo 3, people would stop caring that it wasn’t Bungie.

Likewise with Starfox.

[Kadamose]

I wouldn’t mind if someone bought off the Panzer Dragoon franchise from Sega and made it themselves…just as long as:

1. They keep the current art direction, which is pure genius.

2. They keep the same style of music found in PDS (PDO’s music sucked ass)

3. The finished product does not suck.

If anyone can meet those requirements, then I wouldn’t mind jumping off the Sega ship and becoming a loyal fan for someone else. For me, it was PDS that made up my mind on who made the best games…and that WAS Sega.

[Arcie]

I still seem to be the only person in the world who thought Star(fox/wing) sucked on the SNES.