Yeah, I said it. I think Shadow the Hedgehog finally sealed the deal for me. Shadow the Hedgehog REEKS. Sega’s so desperate to look “cool” that they end up looking pretty ridiculous. Playing the Grand Theft Auto card was pretty weak if you ask me. I never thought Sega would be THAT lame and go that route, but they did it.
Shadow the Hedgehog? Virtua Quest? Shining Tears? Shining Force Neo? Matrix Online? Billy Hatcher? Pff… whatever. I await Phantasy Star Universe ever-hopeful, but no longer as a Sega fan… merely a Phantasy Star fan.
I think Penny Arcade hit the nail on the head. As always, language warning since it IS Penny Arcade.
Do you want some cheese with that whine, Parn? Seriously, listening to you, you’d think Sega had taken your money from you in the past and given you nothing in return. So what if Sega are having a rough time of it just now? Lest you forget, in the last 10 years they have gone from having a strong hold on the home console market, to having it pissed down the toilet by a combination of crap marketing, poor support from third parties and the appearance of a new company in the equation. The Saturn kicked the N64’s ass in terms of games, but not the PS1. Therefore, Sega lost it’s grip, and the rest is history.
I hardly think giving Shadow a gun is a “Grand Theft Auto” card. SA1: Gamma had a gun. SA2: Both Tails AND Robotnik rode around in walkers with…guns. Super Mario Sunshine, Mario had a water jet thing that acted like a gun. Earthworm Jim (remember him?) had a gun from the very start. And that’s just part of the list. Now, if the game involved half-inching cars and using them to infiltrate bases whilst collecting hidden packages for obscure bonuses…THAT would be a Grand Theft Auto card. As it is, it is a new 3D platformer. From what I’ve seen, it looks possible to get through a good bit of the game without relying on said weapon anyway.
As for the “pretty ridiculous” comment, that’s personal opinion. Lets see how many units Shadow sells, then we can talk about how ridiculous something is.
We’re jumping the gun, aren’t we, Parn? [no pun intended]. You’ve watched one trailer of Shadow of a Hedgehog. You don’t know how close it is to completion. You don’t know how the game mechanics will function. You don’t know the storyline. You don’t know who the antagonists are. You don’t know how the physics engine will work. And yet you see fit to declaim that it automatically is condemned to ignominious failure?
“Nothing is inevitable but thinking makes it so” - Friedrich von Hayek.
Pardon me for being blunt, Parn, but rather than complaining about Sega trying to “look cool” you should examine yourself for being desperate to be superior, supercilious, haughty, and holier-than-thou. It looks more like a tantrum than anything else to be brutally honest.
And Matrix Onlinehasn’t even been released yet, either.
Honestly, some people are never pleased. There’s a marked difference between legitimate complaints and knee-jerk angst. Whilst I’m as traditionalist and Ultra-Tory as it’s possible to be - and my gaming habits are no exception - I wait until I experience the game before condemning it!
sega does suck, but this shadow game is a single straw in an enormous bushel atop a camel’s back. i personally don’t care about shadow the hedgehog or his gun.
sega was all hits back in the day, they made THE best games ever and the most of them. once upon a time in the DC era there were about 3 great sega games coming out each quarter. the fact that now there is now doubt as to wether or not sega will release a single half-decent game each year is a painful fall from such a lofty grace.
in my opinion, the only good games that sega has made since the DC are GV and PDO - a couple others were ok but most everything else has been sickening.
This I don’t get.Sonic was suposed to look cool right form the beginning.It was a mainstream product that even used some clich?s : Super Sonic came directly from an episode of Dragonball Z.
I’m quite sick of people bashing Sega.I’m not going to defend it because I don’t think there is a need for that.Sega doesn’t need to please anyone.There is no debt to be payed.
That’s what you get for self-proclaiming yourself a fan of a company.Fandom in all things art should be about the art itself and not artist.Companies always live in the shadow of business.Games can reflect that or not.When they do the game sucks but when they don’t the game rawks.
But just because it’s good it doens’t mean the developer has to live up to the game fan’s expectations.
There ar eno spiritual contracts here.You either like a game or you don’t.You can be dissappointed if an artist starts getting lame but you have no “right” to bash him/her/them.
[quote=“Gehpnaet”]
This I don’t get.Sonic was suposed to look cool right form the beginning.It was a mainstream product that even used some clich?s : Super Sonic came directly from an episode of Dragonball Z.[/quote]
As did the seventh Chaos Emerald, don’t forget.
For once Gehn, you’ve actually made a valid point. Congratulations!
A rough time? Sega’s been profiting ever since they’ve left the console industry.
I beg to differ.
And? That was the character’s design from the very beginning, and it made sense, given that Gamma was made by Robotnik.
Which I didn’t enjoy at all since I absolutely hated the non-Sonic/Shadow gameplay of SA2 (and therefore, didn’t enjoy 2/3 of the game), but that’s beside the point. Tails was geared towards being an inventor, and Robotnik was as well. Having weaponry on their walkers made sense.
Was an odd gameplay thing they had going for it, but the waterjet thing was put in for nothing more than just that… a gameplay feature.
And? The whole game series was designed ground up, around the aspect of gunning down enemies.
Which focused entirely on the aspect of guns for some reason. I don’t recall talking specifically about guns, so I’m going to assume that you assumed it’s the guns that bothered me.
And you’re right… they do bother me. But it’s not merely the guns themselves that bother me, else I wouldn’t be a shmup fan. Shadow is supposed to be the “ultimate lifeform” and all that nonsense… hey, you know what? Let’s give him a gun. Why? Because guns are “cool” of course. Anti-heroes are “cool” as well… let’s make the game around Shadow! Heh… the whole game smells like one big gimmick.
I stole this from the GHZ, drawn by someone that isn’t me since I suck at drawing straight lines with a ruler, but it illustrates perfectly, the perception I get behind this game:
Ah… OK. So I’m not allowed to make assumptions about a game based on a trailer, but you are. Gotcha.
Which would ultimately end up with more personal opinion? I don’t see where you’re going with this.
Neeeeeeext.
Yep. The concept alone, bothers me.
“Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.” - Probably Some Famous Guy
OK. And thanks for taking a moment to go way off the subject, I appreciate it.
It’s currently being Beta tested and is due for a retail release in eleven days. I’m sure this is where someone cries out that the key word is “Beta”, but the reality about MMORPGs is that a Beta test for these tend to stress test the network when it’s a few weeks before launch. A few bugs are fixed here and there, sure, but more or less the game in its form just before retail is exactly what is going to be on the installation CDs that are probably being pressed right now, with release day around the corner. The general concensus from the folks I’ve talked to regarding the game, is that it’s horrible. There’s probably a reason why Ubi Soft dropped the publishing rights to this game to begin with.
And I’d rather be extremely nitpicky with what limited money I have, if that’s OK with you. I make my opinions based on a current trend I’ve seen with Sega’s releases, and the information regarding upcoming releases. I am just as entitled to not like what I see that’s upcoming, just as any other person is entitled to be excited about something upcoming… or to not have any opinion on an upcoming title. This isn’t a one-way street. Illegitimate my ass.
I’ll condemn what I see fit, and you are free to do the same, or otherwise.
Moving on…
You almost had me here. Almost. Heh…
My problem with Shadow the Hedgehog is that its concept seems to be pushing towards the Grand Theft Auto mentality, that whole “badass” feeling. Look at me shoot guns, look at me not care about anyone but myself, because I’m an ANTI-HERO. Woah, LOOK OUT… I’m mysterious and DEEP. Am I going to save the world, or am I going to conquer it?
Bleh.
So what on earth would possess you to click on a thread entitled, “Sega sucks.”? That’s like walking into a bakery and complaining that people keep buying bread in there.
Who the hell said anything about Sega paying a debt? I’m commenting on their latest line of products.
And Sega most certainly needs to please someone. They’re a business. They don’t have to please ME, sure… but they have to please someone, or they won’t sell games.
Whatever. People favor brands for various reasons. I’m not going to delve into that.
OK.
And?
And… I don’t like the games I mentioned?
The “if an artist starts getting lame” portion kind of ruined it for you, there.
i actually saw this researched and sonic took nothing at all from dragon ball. in actuality, both dragon ball and sonic took the idea from an old myth. dragon ball is much closer to the myth (it starred a monkey boy that flew around on a cloud as i recall) whereas sonic merely referenced the idea of 7 items turning your hair spiky and yellow.
define need. technically they could personally insult everyone as long as people still paid for it… but in non-literal terms sega does need to please someone to survive. why do you think that something needs to be indebted to you before you can ridicule it?
my government, as shitty as it is, says that i do have the right to freedom of speech and that would include bashing anything i don’t like. are you pushing the “if you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all” moral? boy am i glad you aren’t the person that puts warning labels on things…
1-In my opinion there are good and bad hero characters,good and bad villain characters and good and bad anti-hero characters.In terms of quality I mean.
2-I actually thought this topic was about some new release by Sega.But that’s beside the point.Just because I don’t like something doesn’t mean I’m going to ignore it.I’m not that kind of person.
3-Why would you take your time to bash Sega if you didn’t feel “betrayed”?
(notice the "s).And when I say Sega doesn’t need to please someone I mean from a moral point of view.
4-Did you meantion any game?I dind’t notice.Anyways I was explaining the whole debt deal.
Megathedium :
1-How can you know Sonic team wasn’t influenced by DB?I’m not saying there isn’t such a myth or even that DB wasn’t based off of ti but at that time DBZ was very hot in Japan.
2-See reply to Parn #3
3-I dind’t use (") for nothing you know?You have no reason to bash the artist.You can insult someone in the street whenever you want but that doens’t mean you have a good reason for doing that.
Not betrayed… disappointed. And so my belief is that the company sucks.
I mean hell… no one seems to mind “Square sucks” despite their churning out the occasional gem amidst a stack of generic releases, which is exactly what Sega’s doing right now. It’s just more that I struck a chord by saying “Sega sucks” on a board with gamers who like Sega a lot.
Well but we don’t talk about how “Square sucks” in three topics at a time do we?Even if it’s a fact (Sega doing consecutive bad moves - i.e. sucking) why should people bother so much?
I’m not neglecting the nature of these forums but companies shouldn’t matter so much.
I completely understand why Parn is so pissed with Sega, but at the same time, I believe there’s still hope for the former industry leader.
The Sonic Adventure series started going downhill after the original game in my humble opinion. And that was during Sega’s finest hour. Granted, I wasn’t particularly fond of the Dreamcast series in the first place, but when you play the very first level of Sonic Adventure 2, you’re forced to wonder why the hell the whole game didn’t consist of those types of levels in which speeding through colorful 3D landscapes at break-neck speeds was the name of the game.
I’ve read that “Shadow the Hedgehog” actually answers to the name of “Sonic Adventure 3: Shadow of a Hedgehog” in Japan. Perhaps Sonic himself will make an appearance as “the villain” of the game to justify the title (who else is going to stop the bad-ass Shadow?), which would otherwise be misleading. As long as Shadow the Hedgehog retains the lightening speed of the older Sonic games, then it has the potential to be great. That’s the bottom line. Of course, if Shadow the Hedgehog does turn out to be nothing more than a glorified shoot 'em up, then I shall eat my words.
I’ve also read over at SFC that the Shining Tears collection book hints at Sega developing a new Shining Force Strategy/RPG for a home console in the not-so-distant future. Whether such a game will ever see the light of day outside of our collective imaginations or not is another matter entirely. However… I shall continue to cling to the fading hope of playing such a game from Sega one day nonetheless. In the meantime, Fire Emblem for the GameCube promises to be everything that Shining Force Neo is not.
Personally, I think that Sega has been too hesitant to fund big budget projects in recent years. And look what Sega has to show for it. The only upcoming games from Sega that are almost guaranteed to draw crowds are Phantasy Star Universe and Virtua Fighter 5; those franchises are too important to the survival of Sega to screw up now (especially since PSU is being developed with a global audience in mind). You can be certain that Sega will pour all of its heart and soul into those games.
this was covered in the article. it turns out that the episode in which goku goes ‘super saiyin’ (or whatever they call it) debuted a month or so before sonic 2 came out (super sonic’s first appearance). so for the idea to have been taken from db, sega would have had to send one of its elite ninjas to their animation studio to steal an advanced copy of the episode -or- the developers all used performance enhancing drugs so that they could quickly reprogram sonic 2 and have it ready to be shipped a month later.
it’s not the first time two separate entities have come up with the same idea - especially when openly drawing inspiration from a commonly known myth. whenever a big blockbuster film comes out in the states, there are usually 2 or 3 with the same gimmick.
apparently, neither are we…
what is a good reason by your definition? i never would have been a fan of sega if they had been making games like this all along. they have lost me as a fan and since at this point i would rather them STOP making games than continue this crap, you might even call me an enemy. i’m still a fan of their older work and i’m still believe that the people of the former smilebit team are among the best game developers in the industry - but they haven’t made a game in a while whereas the rest of sega has been working over time on pumping out terrible ideas.
Ok, Parn, yeah, sure, whatever. Think what you like about what I and the others have said. Obviously, you are authentically ticked off enough about the situation to write a marathon post such as that one.
And yeah, you’re right. I did assume guns were the thing that ticked you off, because I don’t see any other links between GTA and Shadow. What I must refute is:
I was referring to the actual content and looks of the game, whilst you were referring to the overall quality and playability of it: something you cannot (or at least, should not be able to) derive by watching a gameplay movie.
As for the Dragonball Z debate, do not forget that Dragonball Z was a comic before it was an animated series.
And it’s spelt “Saiyan” in the west, “Saijin” in Japanese, I believe.
Ticked off? Hardly. Contrary to the way I may come off on these forums, I am a pretty happy guy. Strange that enjoying debate and being critical of Sega is grounds for being “authentically ticked off” and “holier-than-thou” but… whatever. By the way, for my retort:
Sounds like a statement regarding the playability of the game to me.
I wasn’t planning on buying another Sonic game anytime soon anyways, so it’s not like I was going to be missing anything in the first place. This was just me speaking my mind. If I’m actually pissed off, trust me… you’ll know. I use a nice mixture of choice words and insults.
Besides, I’m not all negative words. I’ve been eager about Phantasy Star Universe for a long time, and I’m more than positive that it’s going to be Sega’s big hit of the year (assuming it releases this year).
Gah, no, playability is how fun something is and…actually, I can’t be assed. I’m off to buy some of those ****ing extreme Loonatics action figures, who’ve got ****ing extreme martial arts and eye lasers and ****.
When anything artistic is concerned there aren’t many.Only if the artist insulted someone with his/her work or something like that.All I know is making bad quality games isn’t one.
Well, if anything, it was more a jab at the Super Saiya-jin thing rather than a blatant rip-off, so is The Death Egg a take on the Death Star from Star Wars after all. 't was just Sonic Team having some fun.
