Seeking Stimulation

Other Games
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[quote=“Heretic Agnostic”]But regardless, I do know the PS would only render with triangles and the
Saturn with squares. Precisely what degree of performance hit that could mean for the Playstation I don’t know.[/quote]

There’s a lot more polygon tearing in the PS version of Tomb Raider, but overall, it’s a bit sharper.

If you really want to see the PS suffer compared to the Saturn just play through both versions of Grandia or Dead or Alive. DoA for the Saturn just destroys the PS port in almost every way apart from real time shadows because they were built for the Saturn from the ground up, essentially.

Ah console wars, oh how I miss them!

I need to finally play through Ecco for the DC again as well just to soak up the ambience (pun intended!).

What really bothered me about the DC critics was how everyone kept harping on about the slightest drop in frame rates as if that was the kiss of death. All the slowdown in some modern games don’t stop them from being awesome games (for what they are), although I have to say, it kind of lends to the epicness of the battles.

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Anyway, give us more adventure puzzle gaming!

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The whole “Squares vs Triangles” arguement is a bit moot, it really depends on how the models were designed.

Technically neither is superior, any possible advantages either may have had over the other are now obsolete based on the sheer power of modern GPUs.

That said, the PS2 has some very nice looking games. The video output is terrible though, when played through component, VGA or RGB, you can see that the PS2 actually dithers the colours, on every game! wtf? Although I can’t deny that games do look VERY nice (I like!) when running in 1080i mode with the HD loader (or indeed if the games support it themselves). However only do it with widescreen games, it causes chaos on standard 4:3 ratio games.

The Dreamcast’s RGB and VGA outputs are very nice however I have some problems with it:

Some games do not work with RGB, this is ridiculous. I can understand why certain games might not run so well with VGA being non-interlaced, however RGB is just standard TV resolution. There is no reason why certain games should not work with it other than poor planning/bad hardware design.

The fact that there are downloadable patches you can apply to .ISOs of games to make them work with RGB shows that the hardware actually requires the software to tell it to output RGB.

Doesn’t make sense because every other console on the planet that ouputs RGB outputs it by default, regardless of what the software tells it to do.

As for the Image Quality of last gen’s systems, when using XBOX in 480i mode it ALWAYS de-flickers the image, this unfortunatly leads to the picture quality being blurry.

However some games have an option to turn the flicker filter off, and if you mod your Xbox you can actually force it off (and have it stay that way).

Results in much sharper picture quality.

An alternative way to turn the flicker filter off is to buy a component cable or VGA box and play in 480p mode.

Gamecube’s progressive output is fine, I can’t fault it at all however only American and Japanese games support it. For some reason Nintendo Europe forced the feature to be removed from every European release!

The RGB is also fine.

An often overlooked feature is sound quality, I find the sound quality of the Dreamcast to be quite poor in comparison to the Saturn.
The Xbox really did wonders in some games with the in-game Dolby Digital.

Anyway, way off topic.

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[quote=“Heretic Agnostic”]Just to be clear Snow Girl, I wasn’t intending to criticize SR2 on the PS2 as an entity. And as I’ve basically admitted I have no clue about the story, which since so many very discerning people seem to agree does not let down the first game at all… well I’m glad I got into this, cause I really do want to mend the relationship now.

But at the time it was simply a part of my general state of mind, the image quality of nearly every first or second-gen PS2 game was just so crappy. It was mostly an abstract annoyance when people wouldn’t shut up with impossible claims for how earth shattering the PS2 was going to be: but after the reality hit, and that reality was such a downgrade from the gorgeous IQ I’d become accustomed to, that’s when I began to seriously resent the situation. I know that my negativity towards the PS2 was greatly exaggerated by the fact all Sony’s bullshit had not only worked, but was continuing as law in the face of all objective evidence. I literally HATED looking at it’s characteristic gaudy, muddy, jaggy, and very jittery face. Almost the same way I can’t look at George W Bush’s face for more than 20 seconds without thinking treasonous thoughts…

Umm, so yeah, purely personal.

:anjou_happy:[/quote]

Well, believe me, I totally understand where you’re coming from. When you really enjoy something and you feel passionate about it, it’s natural to stand by it and defend it. =) I was only trying to say that I didn’t feel I had enough experience with Dreamcast to validly have an opinion one way or the other. As Elliott Smith says, “F*cking outta stay the hell away from things you know nothing about.” :anjou_embarassed:

But, you should definitely look into playing SR2, on whichever platform you choose. It’s a great chapter in the story. It would be a shame for a fan such as yourself to miss out. =)

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I agree the argument for squares vs triangles “superiority” is moot at this stage. I don’t think it meant much even during the 32-bit console era, though clearly the main argument for triangles is that they can represent squares very easily anyway, yet a square can’t become a triangle without basically eliminating one of the sides… which means it isn’t a square anymore. :wink: Triangles would seem to suit more organic forms more efficiently.

I’m not sure if it’s the same issue or not Chizzles, but the few DC games I ever had that wouldn’t display in VGA were all 2D and low res. It appeared to me that the OS didn’t have any way to support dynamic output, so they only had two choices: either render the graphics to the standard video mode, which would then make the 320x200’ish resolution graphics look extra chunky, and also force interlace mode for people with a normal TV; or, as they always seem to have chosen, force the output to what would be basically ‘240p’ mode, which preserves that old-school 2D arcade look. But it was quite annoying to have to plug in a different monitor just so I could play Bangai-O or most 2D fighters…

And Snow Girl, I just noticed your reply in the window, I will track down the PS2 version of SR2 soon. I was compelled to get the PS3 now not so much for any need to play it’s games immediately, but because the on-chip BC may be hard to find soon. So I’m more psyched about catching up on my phantom PS2 pile o’ shame. :anjou_love:

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I welcome anybody who realizes the overratedness that is Halo. XD

Well if you’re going to get a Dreamcast. . . It didn’t have a wide library, really, so you might as well snatch up any title you find. Here are the games I consider “essentials”.

Ecco the Dolphin: Defender of the Future
Resident Evil: Code Veronica(unless you’re just NOT that into RE)
Samba De Amigo(But I’d rather wait for the Wii remake)
Chu Chu Rocket(Serious manic party game potential!!)
Crazy Taxi
Space Channel 5(You can’t call yourself a Sega fan without it)
Sonic Adventure
Not sure how Bangai-O is, but a lot of people bring it up.
Shen Mue(despite the fact it sits on my list of overrated games)
Grandia 2(not as “epic” as the first but far darker)

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[quote=“Heretic Agnostic”]

I’m not sure if it’s the same issue or not Chizzles, but the few DC games I ever had that wouldn’t display in VGA were all 2D and low res. It appeared to me that the OS didn’t have any way to support dynamic output, so they only had two choices: either render the graphics to the standard video mode, which would then make the 320x200’ish resolution graphics look extra chunky,[/quote]

Yeah, I can understand with the VGA, however the fact that some games don’t work with the standard TV resolution RGB is just plain bizarre.

Because:

A) Every Sega Saturn game works with the Saturn’s standard TV resolution RGB output.

B) Every PAL Dreamcast game works with the Dreamcast RGB Ouput, I assume this was done for France, who actually only use RGB with modern equipment (Basically, since PAL and SECAM were essentially the same other than the color carrier, they switched to RGB to eliminate the difference between the two).

C) The issue only seems to effect NTSC games o_O, especially Capcom ones. Pen Pen Triicelon also does not work.

D) TV Resolution RGB is essentially the same as VGA, it just doesn’t support the 480p mode, relegating it to 480i and 240p, this however still looks awesome.

It’s not that big an issue, now that we have those RGB Patches for ISOs, just a case of patching up an ISO to get lovley RGB, but still slightly perplexing as to why the situation exists at all. (It doesn’t affect America because American TVs don’t generally accept Standard Res RGB)

Anyway, for Dreamcast I reccomend:

D2 - Fantasic Surivival Horror, although unfortunatly is not very Scary… for me anyway.

Grandia II - Actually looks nicer than the PS2 version, excepting the FMVs

Space Channel 5 Part 2 - Much better than the first, with real time backgrounds and even quirkier animations.

Evolution - Probably not what would be considered an “Grand” RPG, but enjoyable and humerous all the same.

Shenmue - The gameplay itself can get a little dull at times, however the exploration is cool, combined with a nice ambient sounding soundtrack.

Shenmue II - Brings the concepts of the first game into an Action packed adventure, with a fast paced soundtrack to match. UK version has English subtitles.

Fighting Vipers 2 - Takes all of the elements of the original and boosts them with two new characters, new moves, new mechanics and new graphics.

Rez - Rail shooter, 'nuff said.

Garou: Mark of the Wolves - An allright port of a fantastic game. Unfortunatly the Dreamcast version sucks cock in the regard that it uses a “streaming” loading routine, which the Dreamcast laser wears out quickly with and sounds like a mech from Virtual On.

Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 - Generally entertaining, however when they get boring they get REALLY boring. Shooting levels, ZZZZZZzzzZZzzZZz.

Rent A Hero No.1 Quirky RPG that is a parody of SEGA themselves, you take on the roll of a boy who one day orders a Pizza and wins a SUPER POWER COMBAT armour. However the catch is that you have to pay for the armour with your earnings from your heroism. Features battles using the SPIKEOUT engine.

Full of Sega References and jokes only Sega Fans will get.
Also contains pointless side quests that are intentionally pointless, for the lulz.

SEGAGAGA Another RPG/Genre mix that is a parody of SEGA, this time you are in charge of the company, and you must err… capture developers and bring them to your HQ, or at least that’s the impression I got from it.

Not 100% sure what was actually happening there tbh.

Sega Rally 2 This port sucks. Seriously. However it is still a fun game, although I prefer the original.

Virtua Fighter 3 Again, a port that sucks. Still enjoyable, although nowhere near the enjoyability level of VF 2 and 4.

Ikaruga A shooter-cum-puzzler. Excellent fun with amazing graphics and a majestic soundtrack, but unfortunatly once you have mastered the game, you have mastered it. There are no random bullets or enemy occurances to be had here. However it will take you forever to attain this level of play, so no real problem.

SoulCalibur Arguably the best 3D fighter on the system.

Some of the games I listed are imports, however playing Imports on the Dreamcast is a simple case of downloading and burning a Code Breaker (Cheat CD) with “Self Boot” enabled or buying one (no, lol).

The DC will load the Cheat CD, then afterwards you just insert your import, and it will run it.

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Master? Ikaruga? What nonsense is this? That’ll take you, like, fifty years! XD

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I had such high hopes for the Dreamcast - everything about the system was well made (except for the shitty controller). I was heartbroken when Sega backstabbed all of its fans and stockholders by saying that it would no longer compete in the hardware biz, ultimately giving the Dreamcast a year and half life cycle. At that point, the true potential of the Dreamcast hadn’t even been tapped yet - what a waste.

My favorite game for the Dreamcast wasn’t a Sega title, though - it was Berserk. It was a great, but very short, game.

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I agree. I didn’t take kindly to paying ?200 for such a short lived console. I mean, it had some unfathomably awesome games, it was a pretty shitty thing for Sega to do.

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That was in the back of my mind as well, but having only known it from pictures, I wasn’t sure what kind of game it was.

Wasn’t there also a game based on Record of Lodoss War on the Dreamcast?

And to the Dreamcast’s failure. . . Thanks a lot Sega! Ye of little faith! At least give us our Shining Force III!

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[quote=“Shadow”]

I agree. I didn’t take kindly to paying ?200 for such a short lived console. I mean, it had some unfathomably awesome games, it was a pretty shitty thing for Sega to do.[/quote]

Shitty? Shitty loses it’s meaning when you are cornered. When you buy a console you best buy it for it is and not for it might become. That’s why I’m waiting for Team Ico’s third game before I buy a PS3 and waiting for Too Human before I buy a 360 (although the 360 has proven itself to me, to a certain extent).

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If you imported games it didn’t that bad a life cycle, and lets face it playing imports on the Dreamcast is piss easy, and ebay has made importing easier than ever.

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It’s funny, while there’ve been a lot more games that stand out in that ‘AAA’ sense on XBOX - and probably even PS2, which is saying something coming from me - than there ever was for the Dreamcast… the library taken as a whole easily eclipses the other systems from the generation. Even the most crappy and forgettable games, were still usually interesting and worth playing, on some baseline level. And then there’s a ton that aren’t crappy at all, but either very simple, niche-y, or just plain not quite great: Maken-X; Alien Front Online; Cannon Spike; Sword of the Berserk; Ooga Booga; Crazy Taxi 1 & 2 (which are actually great, but totally arcade); Red Dog; Rez (duh!); Jet Set/Grind Radio (yeah it’s arguably great as well, but fundamentally flawed to me). All of those conjure up feelings of longing for a time of such reliable bounty. And I’m still missing more from that list I know.

But there was another whole category almost unique to the DC, in that there were so many of them and they usually transcended mere shovelware in some way: really excellent updates and/or improved ports. Which included: Soul Reaver (of course!); Dynamite Deka 2 (sequel to the game AKA Die Hard Arcade, I freaking adore that game for some bizarre reason, I’m laughing almost nonstop every time I play it); Rayman 2; Bangai-O; MDK 2; and then… obviously… the absolutely sublime… Soul Calibur!

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Have you played the PS2 version of Die Hard Arcade/Dynamite Deka?

They’ve taken the original and given it some real nice graphics, on Sega Ages 2500.

Luckily they have kept all of the original voice samples! “WHAR IS THEE PRESODANTS DAUGHTUR, BRING HAR TO MEEEEE!!11!!11111Asplosion!!111!1”

And more importantly… there is a mode where you can play as Golden Axe characters and fight Death Adder!

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Cool, maybe I’ll look for it sometime Chizzles. The thing about 2 is that, it’s like watching the best kind of bad Kung Fu movie. It’s ‘cut’ horribly, and that’s absolutely perfect.

Which reminds me of another guilty pleasure… Final Fight Revenge for the Saturn. And yes, *I do own a copy! * Low grade game, the lowest perhaps, but very high grade entertainment.

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Is that anything like Kung Fu Chaos “so bad it’s good” bad?

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I would recommend Popful Mail for the Sega CD. It is a side-scrolling action/RPG with anime-styled characters and over TWO AND A HALF HOURS of dialog within the game (which is all funny stuff IMO). It is one of the best games on the system, if not THE best. I think it may go for a considerable amount of money for such an old game (~$50) but I can assure you it is worth it!

It was brought over to the US by Working Designs, who also released the Lunar games for Sega CD/PS1. I would endorse pretty much anything they released as being awesome for reasons you may already be aware of from Lunar Eternal Blue? Their translations are always lots of fun.

NiGHTS into Dreams for the Saturn is another great title I would recommend.
If you like side-scrolling platformers Astal for the Saturn is one to get. It really uses a lot of the Saturn’s power to make a fun 2D game that never gained the popularity it deserved.

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The only Working Designs release I reall would not reccommend is the english PS1 version of Shillouette Mirage… they added some extra voice samples that REALLY… get annoying (She goes “Bam!” every time she gets hit! aaah"!)

Generally speaking, the Saturn version is much nicer, with more balanced gameplay and nicer graphics.

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[quote=“Nemoide”]I would recommend Popful Mail for the Sega CD. It is a side-scrolling action/RPG with anime-styled characters and over TWO AND A HALF HOURS of dialog within the game (which is all funny stuff IMO). It is one of the best games on the system, if not THE best. I think it may go for a considerable amount of money for such an old game (~$50) but I can assure you it is worth it!

It was brought over to the US by Working Designs, who also released the Lunar games for Sega CD/PS1. I would endorse pretty much anything they released as being awesome for reasons you may already be aware of from Lunar Eternal Blue? Their translations are always lots of fun.[/quote]

My best friend when I was growing up had Popful Mail. It was a strange and interesting game. I should see if I can find it.

As far as current generation games, I rented Folklore and Lair this last week. Lair looks cool, has a neat premise and all that, but wow, the controls are lame! It’s basically like a flight sim, but extremely touchy about angles and not sensitive enough when and where you want it to be. I’d say fun to play, but I wouldn’t pay $60 for it…

%between%Folklore, on the other hand, has me entirely enchanted. It’s an action adventure! Huzzah! I’m totally digging it, and I think I’m going to go buy it tonight. I had to return the rented copy this morning. I picked up Assassin’s Creed, again, to try it out. Hopefully, this time it will work as I downloaded the latest firmware on Thursday last week.

So… correct me if I am wrong, but am I the only one here with a PS3?