I agree completely with the last three paragraphs of your post, Gehn.
Kadamose, would you rather PDO had not been released at all, then?
i really don’t think you are understanding me.
i’m not saying orta is better than anything- i already gave the order in which i personally favor the games but that was just my opinion and completely apart from my argument.
i was giving examples of things that orta gave us that the original trilogy simply could not even though it was clear the the developer’s WANTED to show it to us.
this part is for you, gehn. i did not forget that smilebit and TA are different groups. there are many common ideas between the games, the change of staff did not completely change the game.
compare the sestren in saga to the sestren in orta. i think that if team andromeda had been able to, they would have given us something much more like orta’s sestren.
compare orta’s episode 3 ruins to the small groups of above ground ruins you find in saga. i’m sure that if TA had been able to, they would have had us fly through vast ancient cities rather than restricting us to repetitive indoor corridors.
hopefully it is now quite obvious that orta offered a much clearer view of the panzer dragoon world (which it seems is only something that i value). and i don’t care at all which system it’s on, the point is that this is the best view of the world we have gotten so far and it happened to be on xbox. you can bet that if the next panzer dragoon has ingame graphics on par with orta’s FMV sequences, i will be saying that that is the best view of the panzer dragoon world.
[quote=“Solo Wing Dragon”]
Kadamose, would you rather PDO had not been released at all, then?[/quote]
PDO was a fun game; it had great gameplay. But, it was not a worthy successor to the Panzer Dragoon trilogy…they took away the realism, the story, and the artwork…which was everything that made the Panzer Dragoon series great to begin with. So my answer is yes, I would have prefered that PDO was never released…unless it was thoroughly thought out…which it wasn’t.
And to show you how much I hate PDO, I think that Panzer Dragoon Mini was better…and it sucked too.
They should have called Panzer Dragoon Orta…Panzer Dragoon Iva, since Iva’s story was the only thing ‘panzerish’ in the whole game, and made Orta’s story look completely pointless.
Noone said they didn’t like Orta simply because it’s a shooter and as far as gameplay is concerned most people have compared Orta to Zwei rather than Saga. The comparison between Orta and Saga ha so far simply concetrated on storyline, art and music. So, I don’t see your point.
Orta offered a clear view of the vision of Smilebit. The vision of Smilebit does not automatically make what they created “the Panzer Dragoon world” simply because they legally have the rights to make a story using aspects of TA’s PD world.
Unless you want to consider EA’s latest Lord of the Rings based game a real new part of LOTR simply because they legally had the rights to create a new game based on LOTR but with their own story… And it certainly has better graphics than the books, heh…
As for the Sestren in Orta, I don’t think we can know if it’s what TA wanted at all. They are different parts of Sestren we see in the games and I was quite disappointed that we didn’t get to revisit that part of it so I never saw it with 128bit graphics…
And, since you mentioned the cut scenes of PDS, I preffered that vision of the world than the one Orta gives too… You can’t say that was limited by the system’s power either… I loved the dragons in them, and everything else shown, it was in the same art style as the in-game graphics except in better quality which shows Orta’s changes aren’t simply a matter of the extra detail the developers could achieve…
It also shows the dragon’s armor being “smooth” liike the float engines wasn’t due to the hardware’s limitations like some people suggested before, it was simply because it was supposed to look like that material too…
The last sentence of your post (which I bolded myself) basically states that all you care about is graphics quality and the more “uber leet detailed” stuff you see the better you judge the game… So, according to that sentence, anyone from Sega can make anything he wants, as long as it’s uber detailed and realistic looking, slap the Panzer Dragoon name on it and have you drooling over it… Great way to show that LC misunderstood you when he claimed all you argue is that Orta is better because it’s an X-box game and nothing else…
That’s a load of… You know what… If you argue that Orta didn’t portay the PD world in a good way how can you claim that PD Mini did anything better than Orta? Atleast in Orta a lot of trademark things remain and some of its additions are good. For example, the new pure type creatures look great and very close to the original games’ art style while Iva’s story was also quite panzer-ish (the illustrations propably helped in giving it that “feel”) as you mentioned yourself too. Attempting to call mini better than Orta doesn’t really help you in getting any kind of point accross…
I don’t know. Am I alone in thinking that Panzer Dragoon Orta was the only shooter to really grab me emotionally? True, Orta felt more like a sidestory and certain elements made it feel disconnected from the Panzer Dragoon franchise, but Orta felt more “there” to me with the better cinemas. I really felt like I had lost something when Orta’s dragon “shut down”. Of course Lagi’s sacrifice at the end of Zwei is still probably one of the coolest and saddest endings ever put to a videogame, and Zwei’s music and artistic direction felt better than Orta’s, but Orta just seemed to grab me more in several elements.
[quote=“Al3xand3r”]
That’s a load of… You know what… If you argue that Orta didn’t portay the PD world in a good way how can you claim that PD Mini did anything better than Orta? Atleast in Orta a lot of trademark things remain and some of its additions are good. For example, the new pure type creatures look great and very close to the original games’ art style while Iva’s story was also quite panzer-ish (the illustrations propably helped in giving it that “feel”) as you mentioned yourself too. Attempting to call mini better than Orta doesn’t really help you in getting any kind of point accross…[/quote]
Well at least he said Orta was a fun game with great gameplay. If he really thought it sucked, why would he say that? Orta made me go “Holy heck!” a lot of times. It may have been different from the original vision of Panzer Dragoon, but it still felt like art to me. I’ve played a lot of non Panzer Dragoon shooters, and Panzer Dragoon Orta just felt superior to them all. Ikaruga, R Type, Star Fox. Granted, other than Star Fox, not too many shooters try to inject a story and a whole believable world in the mix.
Ne too. But only because it was the dragon I knew and loved (does that make me sick?) from the previous games. My Lagi 
The only sequence of Lagi I loved in Orta was the one he raises again and shakes the snow off him showing his strength just to help Orta…
Yeah. Missing word. goes to edti, er, edit
Someone who understands the topic!? Surely my eyes decieve me… Yer da man craymen! I concur 100%, though I do think you mean 128-bit?
Wanda indeed looks like the spiritual successor to the PD world in terms of aesthetic craftsmanship. Just look at the screen shots/movies and if they said they were from Panzer Dragoon Saga II I would believe them without a second thought (well, maybe wondering where the dragon is). Perhaps we should all be asking CERO to take over the PD franchise?
CERO has done a better job conveying the PD world by accident than Smilebit did with original team members–talk about a let down. 
[quote=“dragoon lover”]
Well at least he said Orta was a fun game with great gameplay. If he really thought it sucked, why would he say that? Orta made me go “Holy heck!” a lot of times. It may have been different from the original vision of Panzer Dragoon, but it still felt like art to me. I’ve played a lot of non Panzer Dragoon shooters, and Panzer Dragoon Orta just felt superior to them all. Ikaruga, R Type, Star Fox. Granted, other than Star Fox, not too many shooters try to inject a story and a whole believable world in the mix.[/quote]
I said it because it’s true - PDO, by itself, is an outstanding game. What I am arguing about is that it does not deserve the name ‘Panzer Dragoon’ because it does not ‘connect’ with the trilogy very well. Too much was changed, making the PD world seem almost stale.
I also think that the graphics in Orta are amazing - however, the difference in art style drastically changed the experience, and I no longer felt welcome in the PD universe. I’m hoping that the new PD RPG retains the look and feel of PDS; then, and only then, would I be happy again.
He said >32 bit…meaning greater than. (I couldn’t resist; I didn’t mean to correct you)
[quote=“Kadamose”]
He said >32 bit…meaning greater than. (I couldn’t resist; I didn’t mean to correct you)[/quote]
Doh! I stand corrected, good sir.
[quote=“Kadamose”]
I said it because it’s true - PDO, by itself, is an outstanding game. What I am arguing about is that it does not deserve the name ‘Panzer Dragoon’ because it does not ‘connect’ with the trilogy very well. Too much was changed, making the PD world seem almost stale.
I also think that the graphics in Orta are amazing - however, the difference in art style drastically changed the experience, and I no longer felt welcome in the PD universe. I’m hoping that the new PD RPG retains the look and feel of PDS; then, and only then, would I be happy again.[/quote]
I could not have said it better myself. Well…maybe. 
Megatherium : neither Sestren nor the Ash desert in Orta felt awkward in a PD sense.They dind’t feel missplaced.
What bothers me and a lot of other people is mainly the mutant type’s design.Now you ask yourself : couldn’t Team Andromeda do similar design in a 32 bit console if they wanted to?
Well because half the team was moved around and the time period between
ORTA and the last game I did n’t expect the new one to retain all of the qualities that made the original Saturn trilogy so special. It’s like your aging
rock star still churning out good records but no great stuff like he did when he first appeared.
PDO is good for what it is. If Sega can tap into what was great with the original titles with the next installment then it would be even better.
Wanda and Colossus got voted as the number one hottest upcoming game in GMR, with the new Legend of Zelda at number two. Praise Ico!
[quote=“Kadamose”]
I said it because it’s true - PDO, by itself, is an outstanding game. What I am arguing about is that it does not deserve the name ‘Panzer Dragoon’ because it does not ‘connect’ with the trilogy very well. Too much was changed, making the PD world seem almost stale.
I also think that the graphics in Orta are amazing - however, the difference in art style drastically changed the experience, and I no longer felt welcome in the PD universe. I’m hoping that the new PD RPG retains the look and feel of PDS; then, and only then, would I be happy again.[/quote]
IS there going to be a new Panzer Dragoon RPG? I’d be in heaven if there was. Or even a remake of Saga with better graphics and longer gameplay. I doubt there will be, but even if there is, the new game might retain Saga’s feel but not the look. Gaming tastes must change, if not evolve for the better. I doubt the surreal polygons of the old days is even feasible in today’s generation. Everything has to be shinier and more polished. That’s why Orta looked the way it did. Yet I still felt Orta was a worthy game to the franchise and beautiful to boot. These days, there seem to be two gaming trends regarding graphics. One is good old fashioned realism. The other is cel shading. Hmm. Would a Panzer Dragoon game look good in cel shading? Who knows? Look at Wind Waker. It completely changed the way people looked at The Legend of Zelda and was a fabulous game, but a lot of people shunned it simply because of the looks and certain gameplay mechanics. There are also other graphical styles that’s sometimes explored. There’s the faux vector graphics look ala Rez. And then there’s a minimalistic look found in Ico that I have hard time putting to words. Maybe this approach would suit a new Panzer Dragoon game best. At any rate, I think there’s nothing wrong if another Panzer Dragoon game was made using the super polished realistic look of Orta.
[quote=“dragoon lover”]
IS there going to be a new Panzer Dragoon RPG? I’d be in heaven if there was. Or even a remake of Saga with better graphics and longer gameplay. I doubt there will be, but even if there is, the new game might retain Saga’s feel but not the look. Gaming tastes must change, if not evolve for the better. I doubt the surreal polygons of the old days is even feasible in today’s generation. Everything has to be shinier and more polished. That’s why Orta looked the way it did. Yet I still felt Orta was a worthy game to the franchise and beautiful to boot. These days, there seem to be two gaming trends regarding graphics. One is good old fashioned realism. The other is cel shading. Hmm. Would a Panzer Dragoon game look good in cel shading? Who knows? Look at Wind Waker. It completely changed the way people looked at The Legend of Zelda and was a fabulous game, but a lot of people shunned it simply because of the looks and certain gameplay mechanics. There are also other graphical styles that’s sometimes explored. There’s the faux vector graphics look ala Rez. And then there’s a minimalistic look found in Ico that I have hard time putting to words. Maybe this approach would suit a new Panzer Dragoon game best. At any rate, I think there’s nothing wrong if another Panzer Dragoon game was made using the super polished realistic look of Orta.[/quote]
Yes, there is a new Panzer Dragoon RPG in the works, and rumors are stating that Microsoft is paying for the publishing. It won’t be for the Xbox, but rather the Xbox 2.
Also, Orta’s graphics were NOT realism - as I’ve said before, the artwork isn’t even abstract like the trilogy, making the artwork both seem generic and ‘manga-ish’. It’s a cell shaded game with the Panzer Dragoon name attached to it.
As for the ‘surreal polygons’ of the trilogy, there is no need to replicate that to retain the look and feel of the series…it’s just the abstraction part that’s important, and that was completely absent from Orta.