[quote=“Team Andromeda”]Real logic heh ?
I suppose it?s was so realistic and based partly on fact that EDGE took part in SAGA even though he?s clearly shot dead in the begging of the game. I suppose all those magical attacks in SAGA are in part based on real life physics ect .[/quote]
Admittedly the Divine Visitor is something that was really unexplained, but it was certainly the exception rather than the rule for the PD world - and as I’m sure you’ve noticed, not everyone likes the idea of the Divine Visitor. I’m sure the dragon’s beserk attacks in all of the games aren’t meant to be “magical”, though: they’re lasers and explosions, produced by a creature that was created as a sci-fi bio-weapon. These things might not be real, but like lightsabers and X-Wing fighters there’s definitely some kind of internal logic and continuity there; within the confines of the Panzer Dragoon world, these things have been justified. Similarly, for the dragon knowing where the rider wants it to go, we’re told in PDS that it has some kind of telepathic bond with them; as Rune said, we know to suspend disbelief in these cases because we’ve been given some kind of purposeful explanation.
But as lordcraymen pointed out above, no one is suggesting that it could run on all fours; and as we were shown the dragon running differently in Panzer Dragoon Zwei, this point - small as it may be - doesn’t really fit with the existing internal logic of the series.[/quote]
1st off must say great post btw. I know that SAGA talked about the bond (That’s how the Dragon seeks you out) but this this is hardly based on real world fact.
I loved the Divine Visitor plot of SAGA. Firmly believe that the Ancients are in fact us (Humans) but again that is hardly based on fact
Nobody knows how fast any dinosaurs could walk or run. It is at the end of the day a bit of guess work based on the size of their legs ect .
The Dragons change with each game (Well they more or less die at the end), so because 1 doesn?t walk in all fours in one Panzer game shouldn?t necessarily mean that they shouldn’t be able to in any future Panzer games. Just like in the 1st game (and still the best) The Blue Dragoon couldn’t even Morph . Yet in the other the Dragons could
So just find in a bit strange that people focus on things like running on all fours , When a lot in the Panzer world needs some imagination on the part of the user.
For a start Dragons are them self?s based on myth and make believe
what just bothers me is the dog like (and imho ver ungraceful) way in which the dragon runs in PDO. the only thing that’s missing is his tongue hanging from his mouth
I think smilbebit changed the design to be more standard dragon type (heck not even coolias are green, why does the dragon have to be green??? next thing he breaths fire, too, like on that made up cover art… yuck)
are coolias supposed to be carnivores? i think I remember edge saying someting about coolia food not beeing good, he certainly not mentioned the smell of rotting flesh in the sun, did he?
then why has the dragon suddenly carnivore teeth? and a snake like pupil? the thing I liked most about the old design was the dragon actually having round pupils, like a human. and not beeing very reptile. this was fresh and new and SF ppoi, the fantasy like orta dragon just doesn’t fit for me.
I think it’s pretty obvious, the team just wanted to change the design and to make it easier to understand to the west, the made the dragon more common to western culture (green, reptile etc). this was as bad a decission as the lolikon/bondage thing.
Now storyline-wise, this would have to be the justification - we’d have to assume that because the dragon’s body has changed, it acts in a different way - but compared to other dragon-changes we’ve seen throughout the series, like running along the ground for the first time, evolving through different forms and learning how to berserk in Zwei, and combat-morphing in Saga, does this small running-on-four-limbs modification really add anything to the formula? As lordcraymen says, it seems like a change that isn’t an improvement, and I’d say that what irks people is this “unnecessary” feeling.
I thought the Divine Visitor was an ingenius concept, and was very well executed. Without the DV, the ending wouldn’t be such a big deal, really. It’s the symbolism behind it all that make it so great.
For instance, many people who play the game the first time are very unaware that Edge, was in fact, murdered - and the Divine Visitor did NOT heal his body…instead, it simply temporarily reanimated it to accomplish its mission.
At the end of the game, when the DV leaves Edge, and the Hersy program merges with Sestren, the little TV flicker you see at the end symbolizes both Sestren’s main programming shutting down, and Edge’s last moment of consciousness. It’s a truly powerful, and thought provoking, message.
That’s certainly one interpretation: I’d say the facts are vague enough that it could be read in various ways, though. For example, without the added storyline of Panzer Dragoon Orta, is there so much proof that Edge did pass away when the Divine Visitor left him? There’s evidence in that he didn’t rendezvous with Gash on time, but seeing as Azel destroyed the Tower of Uru (and with it the Sestren gateway) anyway, Edge couldn’t have returned the way he came; if he did find his way out of Sestren alive, he’d be coming out of a gateway elsewhere, possibly in a different part of the world entirely. (Assuming there are no huge deviations from the original script in what Gash and Azel say, of course.)
I’m pretty much convinced that Edge did die. Its the most reasonable explanation I think. Him surving and ending up on some distant part of the world would seem rather pointless to the story. I dont really see any facts to support such a theory either.
The dragon has always shared a bond with its rider. The dragon has always left its rider in safty before it left. If it was possible for Edge to survive without the DV sustaining him it would have brought him back and he would have been reunited with Azel. But that just didnt happen.
Personally, I agree; I’d also add that Azel’s final departure in search of Edge seems more poignant (to me) if she’s destined not to find him. My only real point was that the ending seems inexplicit enough for there to be doubt; that it doesn’t seem we were meant to be 100% sure of what happened. Similarly, would it be easy to say what the beating of the dragon’s wings (that Gash heard) was meant to signify before Panzer Dragoon Orta “confirmed” that the dragon lived on?
Anyways even with PDO’s “evidence” we can’t really eb sure if Edge is indeed dead.Sestren does record the whole history of the world.Maybe the “data” Azel used was also stored in Sestren in a “virtual” way.
I figure the data left in sestren that Azel used was all that was left of Edge.
I think the real question is what happened to Azel? we know that she searched for Edge, used his data and her own to create Orta. But then what? Where did she go after that? She was a drone like Abadd, so why shouldnt she still be around in PDO? Did the creation of Orta mean that she would die? All that seems to be left is the recording in Sestren. But I dont remember any actual details on what happened to her.
No, we weren’t given any unfortunately; I’d suspect this meant she died for some reason or other, but it’s really just another matter that PDO is frustratingly / intriguingly silent on. My personal thought is that she might have been meant to die of “Drone old age”, as some of the PDS script implies that Drones only had a limited lifespan (if I remember correctly).
Was that a why for why did I think Azel’s final departure would be more poignant? Sorry, I think I was editing my post while you were were posting, Gehn… if it was, I’d say it would seem more poignant because it would be more ironic and sad (possibly tragic) than if Edge was probably still alive.
I don’t think Azel is dead - in fact, I think she’s playing behind the scenes, acting as an observer, waiting to make her grand appearance. Of course, Azel was not the type to abandon her own child and leave it for the world to torture for some 12-14 years - which leads me to believe that the experience was either necessary for Orta to truly understand the world she lived in, or she was ‘taken’ away from Azel (i.e. kidnapped). I think the former is more likely, especially since in Azel’s message to Orta, her first words are: “Why are we born into this wretched world?”
I think Azel wanted Orta to experience, first-hand, how cruel the world really was…otherwise, Orta would never be able to make a choice on which route she wanted to take in order to fulfull her destiny. (whether that destiny is good or evil, who is to say? I’m hoping it’s evil)
Also, Azel can’t be dead - Atolm ver 2.0 hasn’t been revealed yet.
The REAL question we should be asking is not what happened to Azel, but what happened to Gash? Why are the seekers in Orta so disorganized?
[quote=“lordcraymen”]what just bothers me is the dog like (and imho ver ungraceful) way in which the dragon runs in PDO. the only thing that’s missing is his tongue hanging from his mouth
I think smilbebit changed the design to be more standard dragon type (heck not even coolias are green, why does the dragon have to be green??? next thing he breaths fire, too, like on that made up cover art… yuck)
are coolias supposed to be carnivores? i think I remember edge saying someting about coolia food not beeing good, he certainly not mentioned the smell of rotting flesh in the sun, did he?
then why has the dragon suddenly carnivore teeth? and a snake like pupil? the thing I liked most about the old design was the dragon actually having round pupils, like a human. and not beeing very reptile. this was fresh and new and SF ppoi, the fantasy like orta dragon just doesn’t fit for me.
I think it’s pretty obvious, the team just wanted to change the design and to make it easier to understand to the west, the made the dragon more common to western culture (green, reptile etc). this was as bad a decission as the lolikon/bondage thing.[/quote]
There’s no pleaseing some people. 1st you have a go at ORTA for not being realistic in terms of movements then have a go at it when it does something realistic. One could argue that giving the Dragon reptile like skin is making it far more realistic .
And just don?t agree that this was done for Western taste
The dragon has had alot of different body colours through the games, so whats wrong with it being green in Orta?
Even the dragon pup was a pale brown/red at the end of Orta, you could argue about it NOT being green. ~_~
That’s exactly why I don’t like the fact that the creature is called dragon.It’s not suposed to be like a dragon.It flies yes and it doe shave offensive breath power (kindda) but that’s that.
I would simply have a stroke if I ever saw a Drakengard dragon in a PD game.I would die!
I know, right? I could throttle the gamer who said Drakengard was a better game than Panzer Dragoon Orta. Drakengard’s nothing but a cheap ripoff using a wannabe reject from Dragon Heart.
For all the arguments here, there are people out there who know nothing about the hidden complexities and theories and scientifics about Panzer Dragoon and are enjoying Orta because they know it’s just a game and a darn fun one at that.
