Not on PS3 and Xbox 360, or at least not as much as they used to.
Lets see how Rayman Origins sells.
Not on PS3 and Xbox 360, or at least not as much as they used to.
Lets see how Rayman Origins sells.
What is Origins going to prove? Especially with its artsy approach and yet unproven gameplay. Was Rayman ever as popular as the top mascots? Sonic is a former first party company’s mascot and one time flagship series. They kind of should be in a whole different tier. If unlike Nintendo they allowed it to fall then that is all their doing.
That was a long time ago.
Rayman Origins platforming seems to be on par, if not superior in some aspects to Super Mario and even classic Sonics, simply put, i believe Rayman Origins will be one of the best 2D platformers of all time, and how much it sells on PS3 and Xbox360 will actually show how open gamers are to the genre.
Oh, so your belief means all that. Sweet. And I believe Frozen Synapse is one of the best tactical games of all time so we should assume the fact it hasn’t sold millions means there’s no large market for any sort of strategy game, nevermind the fact it’s from a small studio nobody knows, it looks completely unappealing to the mainstream due to its abstract visuals among other things, and is never going to get mega marketing bucks. Or the fact that, all things considered, it’s doing well. Thankfully Blizzard wasn’t looking at games like that before deciding to make StarCraft II. Rayman wasn’t on par with Sonic and Mario sales even during the series height, expecting it to prove something like that now after years of absence not only of Rayman but also the genre itself in certain circles is silly. Especially with a title that started out as some amateur project aimed for digital download release that Ubisoft changed mind over halfway through. It’s coming to Wii too after all, and I’m sure it won’t get even as many sales as Donkey Kong Country Returns, a much lower tier franchise than Mario in recent times. Anyway, again, it’s not sales that were Sonic’s biggest problem and it’s been up to SEGA to keep the series’ appeal high regardless of platform and their own choice to not put the latest on Nintendo platforms anyway. COD selling what it does doesn’t mean shit. Not every FPS does. Hyped titles like Killzone sell a very few millions. Lesser titles do much worse. There’s room for anything, if handled right. Even Sony’s Little Big Planet, a new IP which I consider to have horrible platforming mechanics, did something like 5 millions on a single platform, just due to their marketing. I’m sure SEGA’s shitty third person cover shooter won’t sell like COD or even Gears of War just because they want to go after that market. </off topic>
Somewhat relevant to the discussion:
Weak Video Game Sales Lead To Sega Sammy First-Half Decline
[quote]The company admitted that its consumer business saw “sales of new titles hover at weak volumes,” and said that in the future it will need to adapt to the rapidly changing video games environment.
It noted that the market is now shifting towards social networking services and smartphones, and that the company will need to meet demand in these areas.[/quote]
More relevant is this:
Sega’s Iizuka On 'Better Defining The Direction Of The Sonic Series’
Apparently their goal is to make a new Sonic game for 2012 that actually sets a new standard for Sonic games to follow. From the article:
Are you talking about Vanquish?
No, not a publishing deal, their in-house thing. Binary Domain.
sega.com/binarydomain/
They do publish some pretty good stuff, like the Total War series.
Don?t you think its a bit premature to say its going to be shit?
No.
Give me some good reasons, “no” its just a 6 year old anwser.
Why don’t you give me some reason on why it’s gonna be great? My reason for thinking it’s gonna be shit is that I’ve seen nothing that looks promising even though all we’ve seen is 100% controlled media that are supposed to make it look its best like every company does for their products before letting others take them for a spin.
The guys developing it made Yakuza, which is a great series, the storyline looks promising and it seems to borrow some gameplay elements from Vanquish, another great game.
However, as i said, its still early, until you see some in game footage bashing it is rather stupid
There has been in game footage…
Show me, all i?ve seen is some early trailers.
Official videos, yes, but with gameplay footage. Not just CG or whatever like the very first video. And the game is releasing in like 3 months. The last footage we got is from TGS.
neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=445002
They had a live demo outside the trailers too, but I can’t find it anywhere except for the full conference stream linked there, if it still functions. I watched it live.
Ops, I forgot this newer footage also, from last month.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BF5-U2f7RE4)
Cover me!
I do not agree!
Later on!
Lulz.
Way to miss the point completely .
Shenmue took over $70 Million to make and took a team of over 200 people to make in 1999/2001 . Given that today a normal average High Def game costs 30 million takes a massive team to make, one could only wonder at how much Shenmue III (which wouldn’t even finish the story) would cost to make today if it was to be done at same level of quality for today graphics as Shenmue was for 2 generations ago.
The sequel didn’t sell, that was it main problem . Next you’ll be saying GTA 5 was fucked up for costing over $100,000 dollars taking years to make and a utterly massive team.
Such a stupid and silly point. Luigi started life as a N64 game, but was made into a Cube title, same for Star Fox Adv. That’s more to do with retail sales of the console, that fucking up a game twice
You still don’t get it ?. Shenmue III hasn’t been modelled at all , it would cost millions and take massive of man power to model a Shenmue III for this gen to match the levels of what Shenmue did for it’s generation.
And for most people that’s what they would now expect of Shenmue
Not when it comes to AI or handling
People wanted and hoped for a Arcade perfect version of Daytona USA and they never got it , with 2001 .
here you go again… Put in stuff people never said .
That’s because Daytona USA 2 was a very lame sequel that lost of the original
magic
Well I liked to have kept it to consoles mainly, not handhelds but even on the handhelds the market for such games is not what it once was and I do believe SEGA still makes SRPG and Shining games for the handHelds
They’re quality games that is the point you seem to be missing
You’ve never played VF III or VF IV Evo to any great degree then ? They’re vastly different beats to part II and there is quite a lot of skill in balancing out all the new characters moves for each new version .
Not an easy task at all
Oh dear , I’m not on about warchests at all, if you to go down that route old Uncle Bill and MS slam NCL into touch. No, I’m about how ever the best of corps can’t post profits now and again
The point I was trying to make to Duke, but but all means carry on.
Don’t make me laugh . Everyone knows NCL screwed up with the lauch and that it was badly rushed out with little software support . |That’s why NCl hate to take the drastic action of slashing the system price even in a Japan.
No you can cut your typical way of twisting what people said out, once and for all . Where did I say NCL were going the way of SEGA for starters . I’ve always said on this board NCL are of the best run compaines
But if you want to talk IP then Mario Kart on the consoles are a joke these days imo, F-Zero seems to be killed Star Fox run into the ground on all systems , the last 1080 and Wave racer games a showed of their previous classics and Piolotwings 3DS a complete insult to the Snes and N64 classics
But like with games it’s all subjective
Oh you finally admit to it now. When I dared to make out such a claim a few years back you had enough to say.
Your opinion you see. To most gamers the Wii is a joke of a system and a great dust collector , but you would peg to differ on such issues . It’s all subjective and I thought Colours was good and Generations is bloody brilliant btw.
It’s utterly amazing isn’t it . Sonic Team have nailed it, even the jumping is spot on …
TA, for sure, i can only dream of what they will make next. I certainly hope for a mix of 2D and 3D like in Generations, with classic Sonic as well, it really puts you in the mood, incredible game.
Except I didn’t.
Yes, you said that. It’s completely irrelevant because a lot of that was fuck ups, not necessity. So no:
You don’t have to wonder, just look at any game that has high production values and you have much higher cost than a simple adventure game like Shenmue would take since, again, it’s a simple adventure game. You say I missed the point yet you repeat the same drivel and ignore reality as usual.
What the fuck is wrong with you, why would I ever say that? GTA is a mainstream game that can afford to do that, save for a potential disaster for whatever reason. And I don’t think GTA5 started out as a PS2 game and then was completely remade as a PS360 game and had all sorts of other management issues that inflated costs (if anything with the work conditions controversies the company has seen it probably cost less than it should). It cost what a game of that scope costs, they didn’t make My Little Town Adventure Game and somehow have it cost 100 million.
No, you are stupid and silly. Making Shenmue twice didn’t add to the costs and therefor made them seem inflated compared to what a game with a smooth development cycle in a given generation rather than two would?
No, it wouldn’t. It’s not a new hardware generation, they aren’t pioneering a new system of their own with power beyond anything anyone ever saw, everyone is used to creating assets to the max quality the systems can handle, modeling and overall development processes have advanced way beyond what was available then, workflow is completely different and vastly improved, and Shenmue is a simple adventure game series, not something with a massive scope beyond being the first of its kind at the time. Unless you want Shenmue to become Grant Theft Auto: Hong Kong or something equally massive which I personally don’t think would be in the spirit of the series at all, but even in that case, those games don’t cost much more than Shenmue did.
Then people were stupid, how could a new game be at the same time an arcade perfect port of an old game? That’s like SEGA announcing Sega Rally 3 and people expecting an arcade perfect port of Sega Rally 1. Stupid.
Except you did say that, since Duke there said he got his personal “perfect” Daytona and you jumped in to say how it really wasn’t just because YOU didn’t like it. And yet you’re telling me off for not getting such things are subjective? Lol, whatever.
Shining games yes, Force-like games, no. Only Feather kind of resembled them I guess, but not in content or quality.
No they aren’‘t. They’re tired, boring retreads that ride on others’ bandwagons instead of leading the pack, because SEGA got sloppy.
When was this a contest? I simply mentioned Nintendo is not in a bad position at all and yes past success does matter, when we’re not talking about 10-20 years ago but up to last year or whenever and a very likely resurgence in the coming months.
How do I make you laugh by saying the same thing, sans hyperbole? Who the fuck are you arguing with, because it’s not my posts you’re responding to, no way.
Duke was saying that Nintendo has been doing good like SEGA should, you popped to say how they aren’t actually doing good implying that his argument is invalid by handily choosing a single quarter or FY and forgetting everything they achieved this generation and everything they have worked toward having upcoming in the imminent future. How is that not comparing them to SEGA? But sure, argue semantics, lol.
Your opinion doesn’t mean shit as usual, especially when you were speaking of success there, and MKWii has sold close to 30 million copies while Mario Kart DS sold over 20 million copies and Mario Kart 7 is looking like it finally introduces a few new elements that will likely help it be another “Evergreen” title that may not achieve the same heights due to increased competition (isn’t this the first time they have a handheld rival two generations in a row?) but definitely do very well.
Lol @ all the reaching, as if Pilot Wings wasn’t a niche little experiment on N64 with something like a million sales or so, but some grand AAA production, nevermind the fact they revived other dormant series like Punch-Out, Excite, Kid Ikarus, Donkey Kong, Kirby, even freaking Sin & Punishment, as well as created insanely popular new IP in this gen (most of the Wii___ stuff). I’m sure that Duke would have less to be sad about if SEGA was developing and bringing back so many games and series that they had to leave a few to sleep for a while and only remain as homages in stuff like Smash Bros and Wii Sports Resort. As for Starfox, I never said Nintendo never did anything bad, ever. And at least we got Sin & Punishment 2 which is a brilliant game in the same genre. How this relates to making a first party’s mascot a mess when Nintendo still have their mascot at the top of the industry with a range of titles from Kart to Smash Bros to the main platform games in both sales and critical reception is beyond me.
How about bringing full quotes in context instead of off handed remarks that you remember the way you want rather than the way they happened? If you said “it has no games” then of course you were being retarded since it has plenty, even if they aren’t what the average idiotic gamer would want. I don’t think you can quote me saying it has a given number of releases that it actually doesn’t. Nor can you quote me saying it has all the games the dudebro crowd enjoys. I was speaking in terms of sales again here, probably unlike the discussion you remember, and yes, it lacks in many areas, not for me as a gamer though, until now that it has been killed off at least, with the successor imminent and Nintendo’s focus shifted to 3DS and that save for a few fitting swan songs. And yes, the current Wii situation isn’t the same as a few years back. What’s a few years back? The launch year? Lol.
But hey, nice strategy, completely ignore the point I’m making in the context of this discussion to once again reminisce of shit the way you want and divert attention to that since you have no real argument over here.
Yes, my opinion. Why do you pretend yours is better and every time someone says his opinion you jump in to prove them wrong with, wow, your own opinion? You were doing that to Duke, hence why I jumped in to show that’s not just his opinion, and your own isn’t more valid, that is all.
No, that’s to most self proclaimed gamers like yourself that look down on anyone else and thus are looked down upon in return. The hardware and software (yes, third party too, go look at the numbers) sales it achieved despite obvious shortcomings say otherwise. And before you start with the casual shit, a game is a game is a game. What the fuck does this have to do with this conversation? Random bullshit as usual much?
Whatever the reason is we shouldn’t buy it, nor should we feel sorry for multi-billion dollar publishers who can certainly invest more into their product.
As one of the handful of early games, yes it did have the console to itself. That’s a fact.
Why make excuses for games that could be way way better?
[quote=“Team Andromeda”]But you know what it wasn’t perfect . The AI was changed so was the handling, so was the textures - in all those area’s the Saturn version is much closer to the Arcade than the DC version.
You want a Arcade perfect version ?, buy it right now on XBLA or PSN. [/quote]
The DC version was just better. The handling wasn’t far from the arcade and it had a DC coat of polish. What it lacked was an online mode.
The point is, it was way way way better than the original Saturn port which could have and should have been better. Sega stopped caring about the Saturn when it was beyond the point of no return, but the beginning of the console’s life WAS the time to care.
Of course, but not to the Saturn’s level. Even if that’s the case, it’s your own fault for buying rushed games. Your own fault.
The Playstation’s launch titles were stunning for the time and really in tune with what the market wanted. Sony invested in the PS at a loss to make a better product, and look where we are now. That’s what competition does for gaming.
Let’s stop making excuses.
[quote=“Team Andromeda”]All subjective and utterly pointless . If you must know I’m not a fan of PC gaming at all (said that till I’m blue in the face on this board) so Blizzard means nothing to me , and this gen I’ve enjoyed Ubisoft games more than any other developer/publisher .
OK ? [/quote]
You don’t want to acknowledge that Sega could be better as evidenced by how much more successful the other publishers have been.
So I will just speak in the only language that people understand: relevance.
EA/Blizz/Activision >>>> Sega.
That’s a matter of taste but for the market it was reaching RE5 was good. If Sonic Colors was good, then great. Keep it up Sega.
[quote=“Team Andromeda”]Really ? Where was EA , Codemasters on the DC Duke ? and the DC had minimal support from most western developers . You go on about the DC, but look over how it too had poor and rushed games from SEGA - SEGA Rally II rushed out and unfinished and the likes of Virtual Athlete utter tripe .
In many area’s be that Arcade ports, Sports games, FPS’s the Saturn had the better line up , but again it’s all subjective [/quote]
Compared to the Saturn, the DC had way better support outside Japan. Sega alienated EA by not making a console designed to last and it simply wasn’t competitive when it came to development. When time is money, devs will invest in the console easier to make games for. The DC learned from that mistake. Christ, you even had a BioWare game: the best version of MDk2. It certainly had a lot of Japanese support but it did a hell of a lot better than the Saturn as far as reaching the mass market goes. Test Drive Le Mans even pushed the DC beyond its limits.
[quote=“Team Andromeda”]Yeah but its losing Marketshare making losses and horrible mishandled the 3DS . To the real gamer (since you like them so much) The main gamer now cares little for NCL - because they like to play their COD, Fifa, GTA 5 On-Line and in HD with a board range of games out each month, Area’s NCL is hopelessly behind SONY and MS
I could also point out that SEGA is still around and those Yakuza game aren’t too bad , you know :P.[/quote]
It’s a jungle out there.
Maybe. But if all they care about is money like all the rest, then I won’t waste mine on under-developed products from anyone. If everyone did the same, then it would force quality.
[quote=“Team Andromeda”]Really . Shenmue 1 and II cost SEGA 70 million to make and took a team of over 200 people (in the non High Def era) only to sell 1.5 odd million copies world wide on 2 different consoles .
The man power and Team needed to make a Shenmue III would be huge cost SEGA millions and would be lucky to break the million sales barrier
Shining Force ? Well looking over the market for a strategy RPG isn’'t really there, until Camerlot come back to the table it’s pointless has no-one will class it as a ‘True’ Shinning game
Panzer Dragon Saga II - I think it a bit pointless as Saga did it’s job story wise and to me SEGA should have make a sequel to Skies using the Canvas engine .[/quote]
Sega could make all those games if they wanted in affordable ways, especially nowadays. They could make them profitable as well.
Sega simply has very little identity left.
I am simply stating that if money is the goal and the only goal, then publishers can work for our money.
I didn’t realise that those Nintendo games sold that many copies. Wow.
[quote=“Windrider”]Duke, i really can?t see why you still complain about Sonic.
I?ve played colors and its a really great Sonic game, actually to me its even better than Adventure.
And now Generations that delivers in all gameplay wise aspects.
Sonic is back, i really can?t see why people would say otherwise. What do you really want more from a Sonic game than what the 2 latest deliver? Fast pace action, precise platforming, multiple paths to explore, the “friends” are not annoying as they were, Sonic has a cool funny atitude, the jokes are good, little chubby Sonic is back and delivers platfoming just like the old ones.
And lets be honest, do you really expect Sonic to sell like hot bread? I mean, today its all about FPS games, platformers are a “thing of the past”, its all about shooting someone in the face today.
Unfortunatly.[/quote]
When it comes to a series like Sonic which sold so well, screwing up something as profitable as that would have you put in cement shoes and cast to the bottom of the ocean if you were in the mafia.
Sega could have made all the games the best they could be, and if their content wasn’t what people wanted, then hey, that’s ok. They could adapt.
Instead someone took their hands of the wheel for a while. Bad Sonic games should have been the exception to the rule.
I honestly hope that changes, but if Sega wants to apply a ruthless business model to their games and be cheap, then I’ll do the same.