So you’re basically telling me there are some. A single example is enough, you’ve proved by yourself what you ask of me. There are games which worked on past consoles and got shitty sequels on newer systems, just look at Sonic ffs… The fact some didn’t work, doesn’t mean that a) they can’t work if they’re planned right and b) that other games can’t work. Bringing up examples of shit games was never good enough reason to show a system’s weakness, how come it’s a good reason now? Again, Soul Calibur didn’t fail because of the Wii, it failed because of Namco’s incompetence to come up with a decent game. Is Sonic a shit concept because the latter games suck, or are the newer systems shit, because Sonic never worked on them? Here’s a novel concept, blame Sega for not putting enough effort in the games, how about that huh? I’m being absurd myself now!
Oh and stop saying I hate the Xbox, nothing I’ve said anywhere indicates that, only that it is not a suitable system for me. At least you admit your own feelings though.
Well, no I never had any problem with anything being personal, I only ever tried to set you straight on a bullshit accusation about my personal motivation. It was in fact all you buddy.
And clearly the debate hadn’t run it’s course since you were both still going as well, besides I tried to make my point simply the first time, but you just couldn’t take the hint gracefully now could you? I was trying to cut to a deeper heart of this whole dynamic, because it’s more personally interesting to me than the superficial discussion, which is already lost on every constructive level for you anyway Al3x…
I’m not defending Team Andromeda, somehow I’m quite sure he’d be more resentful than anything if he thought that I was. I’m responding to material that offends me, and while (as usual) you clearly believe you’re entitled to dictate all the rules of engagement, I remain completely unrepentant of my uncouth tactics. I tried man… I really tried…
Yes TA did respond exactly how you intended him to… because he’s arguing with honesty rather than guile. Your entire programming is based on confusing issues not illuminating them, and that’s another aspect of why your type offends me personally, because while I know specious BS the instant I see it (and indeed you ultimately know it’s BS as well), arguing against it is still a chore because it’s often necessary to first deconstruct the tangle into components with actual logic, before it’s possible to diagram the very illogic of it.
Sure, I could confine myself to just the nonsense within the thread… I could inexorably take your chaotic thrashing line by line and grind it into the meaningless dust it truly is… but that’s like, been there - done that territory. It’d still be fun enough though, so I’ll go ahead and make it clear this IS a threat. Just say the word if you want to pretend you don’t believe me, but then just remember that you asked me. Still here’s a taste, since this most recent pattern of squirming kinda stood out anyway:
Did I miss something? Where has TA actually stated something nearly that declarative against the Wii? He called the Wii’s chipset poor, and it is relative to the generation, so would that not also be a true statement? Really that whole tangent was entirely solicited by you in the first place, unless… OMG was your initial reaction perhaps based on things TA has said from before this thread even started? If so then for shame Al3xand3r, from some things you’ve said to me I had the distinct impression that’s a big no-no to you… ?
No, another egregious (and skillful, I’ll give you that) shifting of the rugs of context there. In fact TA directly and guilelessly expressed his opinion that the priorities of the JSR series are indeed better served by more powwerful hardware, and also the opinion that the Wii control would not add anything to the experience. Trust me, I fully understand your need to treat everyone else as though they have something to hide, but at least in this instance… nope. In most instances I’m actually quite sure you’re the first one to set the tone of “acting like” something is true, while trying to avoid commitment to an actual statement.
I kind of answered this with the other two, but again, my current interest is in illuminating how you’ve personally dragged the topic through most of these issues yourself. That was not implicit in any part of the initial post, for that matter it is not ever explicit in anything else TA said, not in those terms. All you are doing is making it more and more clear that; no matter how the opinion is expressed, if you personally disagree with it you can (and usually will) fabricate an argument for that person having no right to express it.
That’s what I said, that he was acting like the better graphics are the better future, I don’t see how what you say is different. Which I responded to with what I think, in that it can be a better game without 4 x better technical specs, that it can look better just by design, and play better by gameplay design, and that therefor the Wii is just as viable a choice that wouldn’t make the experience poorer than on any other system, which I’ve many times said I wouldn’t mind seeing JSR on, only different.
I didn’t run to say that the series is better off being on a specific system and question those who say otherwise, I simply run to defend the Wii as a viable choice for a grand JSR game, without putting down any other platform as the worse choice, by personal preference or otherwise. Perhaps I went overboard in some cases, the fact remains there was an argument over this and I maintain the opinion that tech specs aren’t everything and the Wii is as viable for a JSR sequel as any other home console.
I guess you can say I agree with what Iwata said…
"The hardware is a kind of box that consumers reluctantly buy in order to play our games"
If the game’s grand, I won’t care for tech specs and that’s reinforced by all the grand games we still buy even if they don’t take advantage of all the latest techs, like the examples of indie games, xbla games, etc I gave. You could argue they’d be better experiences with normal mapping and real time shadows, but it’s clear tech specs aren’t the only thing that limits the use of those technologies and games that don’t have them aren’t less worthy of your time.
Just look @ Megaman 9 for a bold statement. As long as they know what they’re doing they can make a grand game for any system. Heck,I remember enjoying a particular VMU game as much as any Dreamcast title. All they have to do is play to a system’s strengths and make a grand experienced based on it.
The least I would expect for JSR on 360 would be JSRF with a couple of new game modes and looking absolutely stunning, for the Wii it would be JSR with a couple of new game modes, looking pleasing (good within its limitations) and innovative controls. The fact there are ugly games on the 360 or shitty controlling games on the Wii doesn’t mean those possibilities don’t exist which is what TA has been trying to prove by mentioning all the shitty Wii titles.
You have just acknowledged that TA simply expressed an opinion in essentially the same terms you expressed you own opinion… now we just have to find a way to explain why other people are entitled to their opinions just as much as you are Al3x, and then you might become a real boy!
Well I don’t hate you either, or I wouldn’t even bother half this much now would I?
As the time stamps will attest there, I was responding to only your first paragraph and you’ve spoiled the impact now…
So yeah, you didn’t precisely run to say that the series is better off being on a specific system initially, though you kind of got around to it anyway. On the other hand, what you did run (hellbent) to say was indeed almost exclusively a questioning of someone’s otherwise-es.
In fact you were so consumed by the need to defeat TA’s opinion, that in that first post you almost completely neglected any argument for your own opinion.
I wouldn’t call it a need to defeat anyone’s opinion, rather a need to defend the Wii which is the current generation’s underdog in regards to how misunderstood it is by self proclaimed hardcore gamers… It honestly feels like back in the Saturn days and all the bs we had to endure from Sony fanboys despite having the system that is the most popular now. I went overboard with Valkyria Chronicles because I honestly feel that while everyone thinks it’s all about specs and 1337 graphics to me it screams creativity more than anything else. The 3D complexity doesn’t hold a candle to other games but it makes up for it with the fantastic lighting and shading. Sega found a way to make a sweet looking game without spending multi billions (I hope it wasn’t mismanaged like Shenmue at least) by having art that wouldn’t look too out of place on a GC (higher res aside) and covering it with beautiful cel shading for a truly magnificent result. At least from the little in-game battle gameplay I’ve seen so far, the scale of it may surprise me.
There’s so many things about that parallel that demolish all sympathy…
The Saturn wasn’t leagues ahead of it’s contemporaries in sales; it wasn’t deliberately (and so successfully) focusing on an exclusive demographic, effectively disdaining the “hard-core” label; the Saturn wasn’t obvious and unapologetic about being far less powerful than it’s rivals.
I might be cheering a hell of a lot louder than you at the announcement of a brand new Wii JSR game Al3x, and I can quite easily imagine a game that works brilliantly with the controller. Is it my first choice though? Absolutely not, because the experience that I already love is based on a standard controller, and I want to be just as wowed by the eye candy, relative to the current ceiling, as I was seeing the first two. Am I going to say it’ll be unplayable because of the graphics alone? Of course not, I’ll be there with bells on regardless, and I don’t see where TA ever stated the game would be worthless either.
I did mention the one big difference (overall sales) myself, as for the rest, I think it was often stated the Saturn wasn’t developed with 3D in mind despite that being all the rage back then. Just like the Wii wasn’t made for what was all the rage upon its release, better specs. The difference is Nintendo found a way to get their huge sales on top of remaining the same company they had been…
I’m sure you’d have loved it if Sega had found that magical combination that allowed them to keep making their known series, like Nintendo make theirs, while they also sold to a much larger audience instead of slowly bring themselves to ruin and end up as others’ third party developers. It wasn’t some honest will of Sega to be hardcore that stopped them from selling, it was a failure in marketing, failure to get the games that attracted people, and failure to do anything against Sony’s success among other things.
And yes Nintendo have found a market to expand on, good for them, Sony did the same in the past, I’m still sick of people acting like party games is all the Wii gets when there are many titles any hardcore gamer could appreciate for what they are however much he dislikes Zelda personally or whatever, and there are many more coming. That’s what I tried to say with my last post. Yes, it’s the most popular console, but yes it gets the most slander by “hardcores” anyway, at least on the places I frequent, even though it’s obvious the other big wigs are trying to attract market share from the same audience.
Fo your JSR preference, well, no comment other than good for you, I think I’ve said what I’d prefer to see and for what reasons, and that I wouldn’t mind seeing what you wish for the most. Any good Sega game is good news after all, even if I won’t be able to play it, at least not on release day.
During development of Saturn one of the chipsets offered for reccomendation by Sega of America was actually the same chipset that ended up being used by Nintendo in the N64.
Oh you might have a point about Sonic , but the trouble is a lot of the major past console franchises have worked better on the 360 and PS3 in terms of updates than how they’ve faired on the Wii . To many developers the Wii poor chip set gives them almost an excuse to reuse old PS2 or PSP game engines and add on some poor controls and sell it
NCL need to take a lot of the blame for that , Like they always do NCL don’t really care about 3rd party support . It suits NCL to be the ones with the best looking games and making the best games on thier systems . They have a track record of not being open or passing on the latest libraries.
You know if it was just SEGA would have a point , but other than Konami Pro Evo I can’t think of one major past gaming franchises that’s benefited more from the Wii controls , than from the GFX and Sound abilities of the 360/PS3, or many 3d parties making must have Wii titles . So I don’t think its just a SEGA or 3rd party issue
Oh cut that Bull, its nothing like the Saturn vs the PS, Those consoles had similar levels of grunt and abilities . The Wii is hardly a step up about the X-Box , while the 360 and PS3 and some 4 times a step up , its not even comparable
Its pushing the RSX a lot with that type of shading , just like REZ pushed the DC to its limits despite not looking like a traditional polygon game, to some it looked simple and people wonder what the fuss was about , to many others they knew it was pushing the DC hard
To create a game as beautiful as Val, not only takes talent , but a chipset able to handle want the artists and programmes hoped to achieve at the start of production. And even with its Cartoon look I bet the engine cost SEGA Japan millions in production
Saturn was always going to handle 3D and anyone that thinks otherwise just hasn’t the 1st clue , before SONY came on-board the original Saturn NEC CPU was switched to one SH-2 as the NEC chip wasn’t suited to 3D and that’s in SEGA own words .
And not matter how hard you try , the stick that the Saturn got to the stick that the Wii is getting just isn’t comparable.
Not only did the Saturn had 3D on par with that of the PS, It had the highest ram levels of any machine other than the Neo Geo, its had one of the most powerful Sound hardware around , and was able to output a screen res higher than any other console around (even higher than DC games) .
Can one say that about the Wii, It can not output 5.1 DD sound , The 360 and PS3 can, It can’t output a screen res higher than 480p , Yet the 360 and PS3 can (even the X-Box could manage 720p in some games), and in polygons and CPU performance its miles off the PS3 and 360 , that wasn’t the case with the Saturn Vs PS CPU (in fact in that area the Saturn had the upper hand ) , and the Wii system Ram is nowhere near than of the 360 and PS3 .
So please don’t try the Saturn VS PS comparison , because it just doesn’t work
Umm, there are barely any franchises of other systems on the Wii, and from the few there are, Sonic at least was more sucesful than on the other systems. Next thing you know you’ll blame the Wii that Castlevania Judgement is a beat em up instead of a 2D side scroller, I think that has more to do with company politics than what the system is capable of, and I’m glad to know the series’ creator is looking into WiiWare for a proper 2D title.
It’s still just an excuse as you call it, nothing more.
I think their third party support has been a lot better on the Wii so far than it ever was, aside from their handhelds. I already linked to a list of promising upcoming games and they were all third party, about 20 games that look like they will be good (and we have seen a lot of, not just a screenshot and a name), some of them parts of known series, others are new IPs, RPGs, flight sims, action, horror, FPS, there’s something for everyone in my opinion.
Also the Wii’s development kit has been known to actually be very cheap while they have been very open about what gets or doesn’t get on WiiWare according to internet buzz at least.
It’s not like you can really blame Nintendo for the quality of others’ products, does Microsoft or Sony require a particular quality level from games for their systems? I think not, we still get shovelware on all of them, it’s only natural the Wii, being the highest seling system, gets more of those, just like the Playstation 1 and 2 got their fair share back in the day.
That’s a different point than the above but anyway, you make comparisons when there’s nothing to compare, the Wii barely gets any franschises of other systems and when it does it’s PS2 ports with tacked on controls, or some shitty game created in 6 months.
That’s hardly something to judge the system negatively by when Nintendo and a few other companies prove you can do so much more with it. Why aren’t good third party games that are new IPs or haven’t had sequels on other systems proof enough you can have good third party games? It makes no sense to me.
Why does it have to be the same IP? Mario Galaxy doesn’t lack compared to other platform games, Fatal Frame IV was met with about as good response as the technically superior Siren so far, people aren’t saying they’re scared of Siren more because of the better graphics, Resident Evil 4 was told to be a leap in the controls on the Wii compared to the GC, Metroid Prime the same. if Nintendo can do it so can any other company. Maybe they will take longer to exploit the graphics (though they really should do better already since it’s so similar to the Cube) but as far as controls and gameplay go nothing but the ammount of effort stops them from doing good.
We’ve already established games with far less technical specifications than even the Wii’s can be good, like many XBLA or indie PC games, I don’t see why suddenly it’s the system and not the developer at fault.
While I can agree with some of TA’s sentiment about NCL’s tendencies, it’s partly a carry over from the well established SNES controversy I think. Third party games were not allowed to use the full clock-speed mode initially, even though the first party games already were. And I think there have been echoes of that apparent attitude persisting in some form or another. But I don’t see it being an absolute issue for Wii, since the simple fact is the architecture is the same damn thing as Gamecube.
And I also agree that crappy ports aren’t good examples to bring up against the Wii’s capability, but then you’re rejecting pretty much any example Al3x, and bringing up your own not very good examples to imply it’s power like, may be a lot more than what it appears to be so far, or something…
At this point, it’s mostly only the totally inferior ports from 360/PS3 or the lazy ports from PS2 that represent any direct crossover where we may even draw evidence though, and since you’re clearly going to find some way to decry every apples vs oranges comparison that comes up (Mario Galaxy vs Ninja Gaiden), you are again soliciting that kind of response from TA, the response of volume of examples. And isn’t that the tactic you’ve employed throughout here as well Al3x?
Saying NCL needs to take the blame for these things is not the way I’d ever term it… but they made their choices about this. And because of those choices you can’t claim every prize on their behalf. All the nuance in the world is ultimately irrelevant, the visuals of any Wii game are always going to be completely inferior on a technical basis compared to the other two, whether they look closer to say XBOX or Gamecube, is like quibbling over which pint got more drops of beer… it’s still a freaking pint.
There’s wonderful looking game on the Wii, there’s brilliant playing games on the Wii, there’s maybe a handful of games so far which take existing IP’s and implement controls which actually recommend them as a Wii experience particularly. So yeah it’s conceivable JSR could make a great showing on it, and indeed, there’s all sorts of reasons for Wii owners to be happy with their console. But again you don’t get to claim every damn prize.
I will partially agree with Geoffrey as he put the issue originally, in the current climate there’s a lot of reasons Sega might consider Wii the best platform to attempt a revival of the franchise. Obviously the lower financial risk and the sheer market potential is there. And if it starts with some definite inspiration for a control scheme then awesome, I’m all about the freshness too… but it is in no way more of a given success than it might be on the other two. The Wii story is already rife with under performing hard-core skewed / quirky titles that also seemed like they should fit the (sentimental) Nintendo demographic.
Doesn’t tell you something ?. Doesn’t that tell you that most developers would rather go for a more able chip set for sequels and have less limits rather than go for motion controls for taking their franchise forward?
And lets look at the ones that have made in out the Wii , Most just have haven’t worked or really benefited from the motion controls . Maybe its just me, but I suspect people would rather play the 360 versions of Call Of Duty , Tony Hawks , John Madden , Fifa , Medal Of Honour , SC , Tomb Radier than The Wii versions
Now call that wind-ups , developers and gamers not seeing or using the full potential of the Wii, All you want . I call its the reality of the market and developers always wanting more power to take their series/franchises forward . I feel the JSRF and Orta Team would feel the same , but maybe not the Space Channel 5 Team
And as for Sonic , Well lets see when Unleashed comes out on all systems which is the better version
There’s something for everyone on the 360 , and a lot more choice .
The point you seem to miss is they’re still the same games , with the same game play even with this Motion control . And for me Prime one on the Cube is simply the better game , the motion controls feel new and fresh for the 1st half hour of game play , then I’m just wanting to go back to the old controls , and the game desgin isn’t up to Prime levels imo Even playing Mario I just would rather play the game with a pad .
No it doesn’t, that’s just assumptions. Companies clearly back whoever they think is best for a given game’s sales. More on this below.
Several of those games are regarded to have better controls on the Wii. As for the EA titles, they did say they “bet on the wrong consoles” recently and are now producing about 40 Wii titles. Of course, it remains to be seen how many of those will be good, but it’s not like all they do for other systems is great.
I’m sure unleashed will be better on the other systems, you only state this because you know the Wii version will be, once again, a port and not something made with the Wii in mind, therefor it will neither take advantage of the motion conjtrols, nor look as good as it can on the Wii, and of course not as good as on the other systems. I’d say a better comparison would be with Sonic and the Black Knight but then again that doesn’t seem to be a high profile or high budget title for Sega so it would still not be fair.
Feel all you want for yourself.
I never claimed otherwise, except for my personal preferences, stop trying to make me sound like I have said anything negative about the 360… You act like the Wii has no good games, I respond that it has something for everyone, and you tell me so does the 360, what the fuck kind of discussion is that?
I don’t, I prefer motion controls for all the game types which got it right, be it a FPS, a sports game like PES (one of the few soccer games I actually enjoyed), platform or whatever else. Just like I prefer mouse controls on the PC if they’re done right, even if gamepad support is an option. Not only because it’s fresher but because for many of those games it’s just better to me.
For some games, like Metroid, it greatly enhanced the experience, for others, like Zelda, it left the experience intact, with an improvement or two (the first person aiming) so to me (and apparently many others) there were no drawbacks.
As for Metroid Prime 3, yes, you’re right, the first game was better as a game, but the third game does control better. That’s what you were discussing, motion controls, right? Or do you feel that somehow it was the Wii’s technical shortcomings that stopped 3 from being as good as the 1st? That would, once again, be absurd, I think it’s clear the formula is getting stale as it’s the third samey game, they will hopefully do something new for the next one, or at least perfect the design of this style somehow.
The bottomline is, you dislike motion controls as you’ve stated many times yourself, so I can’t exactly convince you to like it, you still should be able to accept many, MANY people feel VERY differently and they both like motion controls, and not dislike lower end visuals as long as they’re pretty to look at which means even games without motion controls for the Wii are welcome by them. Not everything has to use all the Wii can offer, just like not every game uses both analogue sticks or the PS3’s tilts. I thought we were past that.
All you honestly have against the Wii, prejudices and personal dislikes aside, is the lower end visuals. I can’t argue with that, I can only say many people, me included, clearly don’t mind as long as the developers put effort in making a good game for the Wii instead of a crappy PS2 or PSP port. Anything else bad about a given game should be attributed to the developers. That’s how it works for every system in fact, not just the Wii.
Since this is basically your opinion versus my opinion which doesn’t do much for you, let’s agree to disagree or something, without more absurd statements or snide remarks to end this with… I have nothing new to say on the subject anyway, little either of us have said was countered wth anything that can be attributed to much more than personal preferences if you want to analyse things and there’s no point in repeating the same things over and over again. Whether you agree or not, I think I’m done.
The Wii is the best selling console full stop and doing wonders in Japan. Yet i don’t see Square Soft or Capcom having the Wii as the lead platform for games like FF or RE and the series have in the main sold best over in Japan .
So don’t pull that game , becasue it doesn’t work .
Where , I’ll put money on most gamers wanting to play the 360 versions any day of the Week. And as for EA all the Wii will get is ports , for the major franchises , using the trusty PS2 or PSP game engines .
The Wii will be never the lead platform for EA big titles . Pro Evo is the only game I can think where its paid off
I’m sorry its to SEGA credit that its one of the few to write custom engines for the Wii and try and use its chipset, NiGHTS is one of the best non NCL wii looking games . Keep on kidding your self that the Wii as this untapped potential , its nothing more than a Cube with a speed boost, and a GPU not up the levels of the X-Box GPU and thats is EA own words btw .
Stop trying to make out I say there’s no good games on the Wii . There is , just nothing to that for the 360 or PS3 .
The Wii has become the dumping ground for piss poor ports ,and mini party games .
Playing part III you just got the impression you’ve been there and done and see it all before . I put it to you a lot of that was simply down because in design terms the Team couldn’t do much more , they couldn’t increase the scale , or change many of the designs , simple because the Wii is a Game Cube .
Now RE 5 is nothing more than RE4 on the next gen , but the grunt of the 360/PS2 as allowed the Team to go wild in scale , set pieces helping the game seem more fresh and new than it really is , and also letting the Team add in real time Online Co-Op modes .
Power Free’s up developers more than controls imo.
No, actually, it works, I was very specific when I said “best for a given game’s sales” which means that since the Wii is misunderstood as a more casual oriented system (thankfully that changes in time and more serious games are coming gradually), they’ll obviously put their “hardcore” games on other systems. Especially when they can put it on TWO systems for combined sales which doesn’t put them behind the Wii.
Eh, what answer do you want? if I bring up reviews mentioning they’re more fun than other versions, you’ll say the media suck, if I say I prefer it, it means nothing to you, so why ask at all if I can’t really respond?
Can you also read tarot? Good job. I’m sorry but when they announce they “bet on the wrong consoles” and have converted and will now push for more and better Wii titles with 40 of them in production, I’m inclined to think they’re actually changing attitude, not continuing the same, until I see otherwise of course. So, let’s talk EA in 6 months once we start seeing the new titles instead of getting the completion of current projects. I’m sure they’ll have ports, I just think they say they’ll do more and they might just do that.
Why do they have to be leading? I never said I want the Wii to 'win" or something, and Evo certainly hasn’t converted to being a Wii only franschise, they just found a way to make it work there also. They’re still making it for other systems and I’m fine with it. I will however stress that several of the early Wii EA games, including Madden, got great response on the Wii because they were one of the few companies to get the controls well. Now they claim changing focus, they can hopefully deliver even better controls and games which aren’t merely ports. I won’t condemn them before I see the games.
Are you mad or upset or something? Your typing is getting worse by the minute and your points further away from reality. I never said anything about untapped graphics potential, you even quote me but ignore the quote. With that said, most companies, Sega included, have yet to achieve Nintendo’s or Capcom’s quality levels and I’m sure eventually more of them will. Namco is starting to do good.
[quote]Stop trying to make out I say there’s no good games on the Wii . There is, just nothing to that for the 360 or PS3 .
The Wii has become the dumping ground for piss poor ports ,and mini party games.[/quote]
The dumping is only a side effect of the popularity, the same happened with the PS1 and PS2 which were still more than worthy to own I think. The Playstation must have had THOUSANDS of titles, how many were worthy? 50? 100?
As for it having less good games than the other systems, I think it has more than enough (and doesn’t lack especially compared to the PS3) and it’s getting more all the time. It did come a year after the 360 after all, and most people thought they were doomed like Sega. Many companies, like EA, bet on the wrong consoles, though I wouldn’t put it so harshly myself, I’d rather they see potential on all systems rather than one or two.
I blame it on game design, they were a 1 hit wonder with Prime and have nothing new to do. Most of the FPS games on Wii are quite different, they could have done something different with Prime 3 also and they either didn’t because of lack of imagination or because they really wanted it to be yet another Prime and nothing more. Hopefully they do something new next time, the same old sci fi designs and corridors are getting old regardless of scale. They could set up an all new environment for the next one, maybe a flooding facility (yeah, Bioshock wasn’t the first game to have that concept), with actual danger of getting drowned and all sorts of things to do with swimming. Maybe altered gravity, walking on walls and ceilings like in Galaxy, or maybe even completely zero gravity, or whatever. It’s an adventure/FPS they can do all sorts of things with it.
Cool, maybe I’ll play it if they port it to PC like 4. I do hope it’s not just 4 with more/bigger stuff though, I’m sure Capcom can find ways to deliver something more special than that.
That’s true in conventional development, controls however can free the user. I don’t imagine myself playing bowling on any other console for example, and I do enjoy FPS games more on the Wii as far as controls go, even if they’ve yet to build a really robust game of the genre so far, as good as some of the existing titles are. Standard gamepads just don’t work for me for such titles, I never even got the hang of Goldeneye…
Moreover, scale, physics and anything resulting from extra power aren’t the only things that can improve games. Otherwise there would be no point in having sequels or different series of the same genre within the same generation of consoles. We would just play the one “best” game of each type and be done with it waiting for next gen.
Not to say that you can’t have large scale games on the Wii, they can always reduce the visual fidelity of particular objects (characters, level design etc) if they want to do a larger game. Much like Battalion Wars did on the GameCube. Characters and details weren’t as good as Resident Evil 4 but it was still impressive to see on the Cube thanks to the scale. I never expected a Battlefield esque game for that console. I will probably get 2 for the Wii even though I wish they had done more with the concept. Galaxy has some pretty large scale areas also and it’s seamless for most of the game so streaming helps. In different environments they could potentially do more, for example an urban area where they make sure building placement is done in ways that don’t let you see TOO far ahead.
The Wii is a causal system , its time to wake up to that fact , its not knocking the system is just the way it is and how the Wii is doing so well, and at the moment NCL is making millions of that fact
The Trouble is it comes at the expense of games with meaningful single payer games , or games that simulate sports ect .
You’re going to sit there and tell me that EA will let its engineers lead and build its latest sport games on the Wii , 1st and then port the engine over to the PS3 and 360 . That is the stuff of pure fantasy
All you’re going to get is EA Sports ports using a PS2 engine and more simple fun games like Boogie Superstar , Ninja Reflex .
Well there’s a couple of reasons why I think developers lead on a platform , its either because they feel its the most powerful and its more able of matching their pre production goals and designs , or its because they feel its the best selling platform .
I’m not seeing many of the Big games lead on the Wii , I think that tells its own story
No i can just bring up you’re the one saying companies have yet to exploit the Wii’s full power, or somehow its always the developer fault for not using the Wii to its fullest .
But what ever
The diff is those we the lead platform for most of the big games You weren’t getting some piss poor port with a engine used on previous gen console (overlooking Road Rash)
Oh no, the PS3 got a high number of good games , its just hasn’t many to call its own .In gameplay terms it got by far the better tiles for it, its only trouble is, most of them perform better on the 360 .
To me most of them are poor Ps2 ports , but there you go . And I don’t see what Retro could do , they were limited by the hardware just as much as the IP they were using.
To me Prime II and Halo II were poor , and a huge step back wards for both franchises. HALO III on the 360 is more or less to play the original. Only with the extra power the scale , the number of enemies the design choices open to the developer goes up . You can make it look and feel new , even if its really isn’t, not even that option was open to Retro
Panzer Dragoon Orta shows this so well , bar the brilliant use if the Boss battle system , and the speed boost and real time morphing, the game is much the same as Zwei , or the original,.
Only with the X-Box grunt over the Saturn , Smilebit were able to make a brand new world that seemed even more organic and alive tha ever before . made you feel you were really playing something special and seeing a type of world you never laid on eyes on before .
A lot of that was down to the X-Box enabling the artists and the design teams be more free and having less limits with their vision and ideas , for them to be able to go to down so to speak
So while the gameplay was the old classic Lock on Shooter we all love Panzer for , its game world was anything but
I worded that wrong, I meant the misconception that it ONLY offers casual gaming. It’s clear casuality is why it’s popular but it has many “proper” titles also, and many more to come, I’ve listed a fair few in this thread. There’s also the misconception that casual means only “party” games whereas Nintendo’s franchises like Smash Bros or Mario Kart prove you can attract casuals while offering a meatier experience at the same time…
Yes, I meant that also when I said that thankfully it’s changing and we see more serious games pop up for the Wii.
I never implied that. PS2 support however WILL wither at some point, so there will be no more PS2 ports done, and while many companies don’t put their 360/PS3 titles on the Wii, or put them as shoddy ports of lesser versions, there are also many companies that do different Wii-only projects, I’ve listed many of those as well, most of my main list of upcoming serious games was Wii exclusives.
There you go with the tarot again…
I see plenty of big games coming to the Wii, the fact they may be exclusives or new IPs doesn’t mean they’re lesser. Besides, since when is sequel #34959358 better than an attempt at creating a new IP? Nintendo are bashed for continuing with their same old series and the Wii is bashed for attracting new IP development?
If Squaresoft are making an RPG, does it really matter it’s not Final Fantasy? If Namco are making a combat flight game, does it really matter it’s not Ace Combat? To me it doesn’t, and it only means it lets them try more new things than try to live up to a specific series’ path. They still play to their strengths and expand their horizons at the same time.
Obviously, as I said in my last post, many companies fail to deliver, both graphically and gameplay wise. The fact Nintendo, Capcom and maybe Sega have gotten some good results doesn’t mean ALL companies have. It in fact means good games are achievable and shitty games are the result of shitty development or porting. Again, that’s slowly changing and there are many promising upcoming titles from various developers, Namco being very notable with games like Sky Crawlers, Fragile and Tales of Symphonia 2.
To me casual means little thought or effort being put into the single player mode , or having sports games that hardly simulate the sport they meant to be representing.
Sadly like it not , that a factor for a lot of Wii games
1 or 2 , and the upcoming SEGA seeds stuff look good, nothing to that what the 360 can boost off (upcoming wise)
that maybe true and I hope it happens But I really can’t see EA using anything other than its Ps2 engine for the bulk of their Wii sport games for the rest of the gen.
Because its not in their interests to speed million on a high performance high engine built from the ground up on the the Wii , and because EA knows the causal don’t care , and they still sell millions .
Well we 'll see
[quote]Nintendo are bashed for continuing with their same old series and the Wii is bashed for attracting new IP development?
If Squaresoft are making an RPG, does it really matter it’s not Final Fantasy? If Namco are making a combat flight game, does it really matter it’s not Ace Combat?[/quote]
it does if they’re making new version for other platforms . It either shows your console is not capable enough to lead and build the game around it , or that its not selling well.
I just put it to you , that the reasons the 360 and PS3 is getting FF 13 from Square , it because the team feel they can do more on those platforms due to the grunt , much like the Ace Combat IV must have felt .
You think with the Wii selling the best by a mile in FF heartland , the FF 13 Team would be making a Wii version and not a 360 version , They aren’t and the reason is so very simple , its comes down to performance and not a lot else
