I think the question is: why didn’t Edge die when the DV left his body? The DV had already left his body, and yet Edge woke up. I’m not sure if we can state as a fact that Edge died. We don’t know what happened to him.
EDIT: just noticed Al3xand3r already mentioned the same thing
Well, it’s still just a game so anything is possible.
I think the DV may have not always been the player, but that’s just a theory. Like I said, this could have simply shown to us that it really is just a game, that involves the player by making him part of the story.
[quote=“D-Unit”]I think the question is: why didn’t Edge die when the DV left his body? The DV had already left his body, and yet Edge woke up. I’m not sure if we can state as a fact that Edge died. We don’t know what happened to him.
.[/quote]
Smilebit seemed to have abandoned the idea of the Divine Visitor in PDO, so I suspect that we may never hear from it again. It seemed to be a pretty controversial element for PD fans (and not just on these boards), and I get the impression that the DV is being left alone so as not to risk annoying anyone.
Anyway, I get the impression that - in the game’s version of “reality” - the PD world and our own world are indeed meant to co-exist; the term “the one from the outside world” does seem to acknowledge that both worlds are “real”, as would the fact that it’s acknowledging the player and the controller that they’re holding, while still making that scene a serious part of the plot.
I expect that the Divine Visitor was called that in the Ancient Age because even the Ancients thought that the idea of the player was “god-like”, and by any measure you are - you enter into the world by taking on a kind of “avatar” (as in the original meaning of the word), you can never be harmed by anything in the gameworld, and you exist seperately from it in that higher dimension. (The whole “visitor” part of the name does imply that you’re only there temporarily, too, which you genuinely are.)
The idea of such an entity as the player would probably seem pretty god-like in our own world, when you think about it. Whatever the Ancients were or considered themselves to be, the player would have to be infinitely greater, and it seems that they had acknowledged this.
EDIT: Sorry if some of that’s already been covered by Al3x or D-Unit, you know I’m the slowest poster on Earth.
[quote=“D-Unit”]I think the question is: why didn’t Edge die when the DV left his body? The DV had already left his body, and yet Edge woke up. I’m not sure if we can state as a fact that Edge died. We don’t know what happened to him.
.[/quote]
Excuse me?!The DV was always there in Saga.[/quote]
Gehn’s right: we see the Divine Visitor enter into Edge’s body at the beginning of the game, but we never actually see it leave. The implication is that you did indeed leave his body, but only entirely after the events of the game - and as the player you definitely did leave, because the game had ended - but we never literally see the ball of white light depart.
Well, IMO we leave Edge’s body before the Heresy Dragon starts talking to him and then we are just watchers. And then the HD turns and talks to us by looking at the screen and tells us to press the button. That whole scene gave me the sense that it was watched from a first person view so yes I think the DV(us) Had left Edge’s body at that point and yet he was still alive listening to the DV.
In any other case though we still don’t see Edge die, and if he did die we don’t know if it’s cos the DV left him or cos of another reason (unable to survive in Sestren perhaps or whatever else, the fact is that Edge’s death and/or the reason for it is one of the things we CAN’T know for FACT)
You just raised a good point there Al3x.The DV beeing us and we seeing it all in FPView…
That could very well imply that we weren’t in Edge anymore but it doesn’t make much sense since Edge should certainly have died when he fell in the intro FMV…
ONe thing’s for sure tho : Edge never left Sestren…
Al3x: When you think about it, the “Divine Visitor” was sitting behind the screen all along, so I’m not so sure that we can take that as an indication that it had left Edge by that time. In that same scene the Heresy Program also refers to the Divine Visitor as “the one who dwells inside Edge”, not “the one who used to dwell inside Edge”, which would heavily imply that Edge and the Divine Visitor are still “bonded”.
I agree with your point, though: it may be logical to assume that Edge did indeed die, and that he died because of the player’s departure, but ultimately we don’t have any proof of this. As I mentioned before, Smilebit really seem to have avoided the Divine Visitor in PDO, so perhaps we’ll never know for sure…
but couldn’t it be that edge suffered a mortal would in the physical reality but once in the sestren- the not quite physical reality- it did not matter as much? it’s true you do not see yourself leave, but the way the scene was shot, you appear to be in first person and it seems as though edge is looking you in the eyes as he speaks to you.
i figured this technically meant that edge died out of the physical reality, but either still exists in a forgotten annal of the sestren or perhaps the heresy program let edge merge with it as a reward for playing his role in the heresy plan. you see the two of them fly off together as you get left behind, and the heresy program had a certain benevolence about it… maybe it told edge that “if you return to the physical world, your wound will kill you without the power of the divine visitor. stay here with me, i’ve been longing for a second player for co-op in halo… i just can’t beat it on legendary and i want to see the funny ending”
EDIT: doof! lance, i’m working on taking that title from you
My reasoning always was: if Edge survived, then he would’ve left Sestren on the back of the dragon he rode in on. Lagi wouldn’t leave Edge behind… unless he was dead. How else can we explain why Azel only managed to acquire his gene data?
Well you guys are assuming that the DV entered the dead Edge and was keeping him alive or something from then on.
I had assumed that Edge had never died and that the DV either just entered him while unconcious or entered him and also healed what was needed.
We both could assume something inbetween the two above things instead.
Edge died but the DV ressurected him while entering him. If he’s ressurected and healed why would he die after the DV that ressurected him left his body? He’s still healed and very alive anyway, no reason for him to die after that, is there?
My own interpretation before arriving here was very similar to one of Al3x’s suggestions (i.e. that Edge had only been healed by the Divine Visitor). However, there’s still the overhanging implications that Edge neither left Sestren on the dragon nor survived within Sestren. It’s possible that he survived and exited into the outside world never to be seen (or mentioned) again, but it strikes me as being less likely.
To reply to you Geoffrey (I hadn’t read your post in my previous reply), the dragon left Lundi after they completed their goal as well. He did the same thing with Edge and went off to hybernate somewhere. Edge might not have been capable of reaching Gash fast enough without the dragon. Azel might have only gotten his gene data from withing Sestren because she simply didn’t find him at ALL cos he had LEFT Sestren as well, not because she found him there dead. And that data was stored within Sestren rather than taken directly from his dead body. There’s all kinds of possibilities
If someone tells me that there is no sort of magical explanation for Edge to be alive after beeing shot and after that fall I’m gonna abandon the PanDra path …
Realistically the gene data might have been taken from Edge’s dead body; as you say yourself, there’s very little confirmation of anything, and I can’t help but think that this is included.
I accept that it’s possible that Edge didn’t die and instead lived out his days elsewhere; but I really think that the alternative is more likely, in the absence of any further developments in that plot line.
I noticed myself that Edge seems to “fall into” the Heresy Program as the camera pans away at the end. Still, remember that the Heresy Program ceased to exist soon after that (as its wish of being deactivated to end the Ancients’ reign was fulfilled), so that probably wouldn’t help Edge much survival-wise - although it’s possible that he and the program did indeed find their “rest” together.
Ofcourse Lance, Im not saying any of this is fact, I’m just showing there’s other applicable possibilities as well.
And to add to that post, we see the Dragon reached Gash around the time they were getting ready to leave (Gash hears the sound of wings), how could Edge reach that place at the same time when he can’t fly
And if it was his actual body that Azel got the data from, wouldn’t it have already been totally decomposed after all those years? If I’m not mistaken Orta takes place some fourty years after PDS, and Orta is only supposed to be 13 (or 16 for the non jap versions), that means Edge would have been dead for around 24-27 years. Would Azel really find enough of him by then and be certain it’s him? I mean if she found a bone floating around would she go "That’s my Edge! Time to work my tech magic now, just need a lil piece of that"
Though it could be argued that bodies do not decompose inside Sestren… Still Im just passing around alternatives
hmmm i had forgotten that the heresy program was gone, i kinda thought it took over the sestren as in, it assumed the role of sestren exis but it wasn’t really doing anything with that power. but now i remember that it did shut down.
has there been any discussion about that pup after lagi dies?
i mean do you think lagi somehow gave birth to it? it kind of materialized from no where like the pup in PDS? because it was the heresy program that mutated that first coolia into a dragon, so how could there be any more heresy dragons if the heresy program was shut down? even if lagi was capable of creating another by itself, what would be the purpose?
do people here not really look at orta’s events as factual or as meaningful as the predecessors?
I think we we assuming that Edge would have left Sestren actually on the dragon, if they did indeed both leave; again, that’s the most obvious assumintion (but as you say there really is no direct confirmation).
Things only actually decompose in the “real world” because of the actions of physical environmental agents; if Sestren was a completely sterile environment (or at least had its own laws of physics), he could potentially not decompose at all. However, Edge’s body had apparently been transformed into “data” in order to enter into the network, so normal ideas of decomposition are probably unapplicable.
