[quote=“TheSharpEdge”]
I’m sure that it isn’t revealed in the game, but I do seem to remember reading it somewhere and believeing it. I could be mistaken, though - can anyone clear this up?
I’m pretty sure on the official site or somewhere it says 13. 0.0[/quote]
That’s what I read also, TSE
Thanks guys.
I’ve just checked the official site, but the only place I could find the statement was on, erm, what I can only refer to as the most horrific page of Japoanese-to-English translation that I have ever witnessed. (Well, top 5 anyway.) For anyone who’s interested, the whole line is:
“She looks about thirteen years old and somewhat has a bit of remaining atmosphere of being child.”
On the one hand, this is clearly a horrible translation, and it only says that she looks about thirteen, not that she is. On the other hand, I can’t see them actually mistranslating a number, and It seems likely that Smilebit wouldn’t want to confirm her exact age anyway because Orta is meant to be a total mystery. So this could be considered a good indication. Alternatively, maybe in the original Japanese this was a confirmation, that has simply been mangled in translation.
I’m not sure if it was on the same page, but that site also mentioned characters called the “Three Magi” (or something) who were responsible for Orta’s initial imprisonment. I’m sure that information is not present in the game, either. Very odd.
The intro of Orta seemed like it implied that she was in prison for more then 13 years. I think its safe to assume that half drones age a lot slower than humans.
Good point. I mean, we should also look at the prison in which she was being held, it looked old, and crumbling. I honestly doubt that she would have been held in a prison in such awful condition at the beginning. It would have been much nicer, much more reinforced when it was originally built, which means that Orta could have been there for many years.
“I know the name, but I do not know any details.”
Wasn’t she lying when she said that? I mean, she said she had to destroy the Tower to prevent Sestren to escape. If she didn’t know exactly what Sestren was, then how did she know it could escape through the Tower?
[quote=“Lance”]
This sentence strikes me as something said in the present tense. “If you continue” implies Lagi has been existing in the world as a mortal for some time now.
My understanding was that it meant “your life will more than likely end out there if you continue without me to protect you.” I’m quite sure that the dragon was always able to die, but that it’s powers of resilience were greatly lowered by the Impurity leaving it in this scene.[/quote]
If this was meant to be a recording of a conversation (however one-sided it seemed to be), who were the “friends” the Heresy dragon asked Lagi to keep an eye on? Edge was dead and the thought of creating Orta hadn’t even entered into Azel’s mind yet, so who would the Heresy dragon deem to be “friends” at that point in time? Gash? The Seekers? Also, “I must rest” doesn’t necessarily equate to “I must be destroyed”, nor is “farewell” synonymous with “goodbye forever”. The Heresy dragon would be a little more unambiguous if it was going erase itself from existence, even though that was supposed to be its fate at the end of Panzer Dragoon Saga (at least in the English version).
I’m open to the possibility that this was in fact a recording though. In many ways, it would make sense, especially given the setting.
This is admittedly a very odd thing for it to say. If you think about it, though, it wouldn’t make any more sense if the conversation was in real time rather than a recording, as the Impurity would have had no more contact with the outside world since then.
The first idea that occured to me was that it did indeed refer to characters from Saga. It seems that the dragon never found Azel, however, as she was lost in her quests for Edge for so long. Perhaps that was its intent, that it could never fulfill, which is why it was eventually so determined to help Orta when it became aware of her existance?
Another possibility is that it could have been referring to the human race in general. The Impurity’s overriding ambition was to “return the world to the hands of the people”, after all, so it clearly felt strongly about humankind.
If you think about it, “watch over our friends” does not literally mean “reveal yourself to our friends”. The dragon could have been keeping a caring eye on many characters from Saga, such as the Seekers and Gash, for some time. I am still convinced that it only found out about Orta recently, though, which would explain why it only rushed to her aid (from whatever it was doing) so late on.
No, they certainly aren’t indisputable statements of demise. In light of the fact that this appears to be its final known message, though, (see below,) I feel that it is surely just saying goodbye prior to its deactivation.
Though it is a possibility that the Impurity still exists on some level somewhere in the network, I am convinced that this scene is not evidence of it. Though on first stumbling across this, I also thought that the Impurity must still be alive, I am absolutely sure now that it is just a recording. As I pointed out earlier:
[quote=“Lance”]1) The Impurity was completely deactivated immediately after Panzer Dragoon Saga; that was the whole point of the ending. If this did not happen, the Tower network would not have been shut down with it, and well, not much would make sense at all.
You hear it in a memory cell; everything else that you hear in memory cells is a simple recording of something that has already happened. (This one just happens to have visual as well as audio, like Azel’s message.) After all, all those random voices in the other memory cells are just recordings, and are not happening then and there.
The Impurity did not split from the physical dragon there and then, so why would it be saying “farewell” then? The Impurity must have split with it immediately after Saga’s ending sequence, just before it was deactivated, so this is clearly a recording of their parting conversation.
It’s clearly only one side of a conversation, as your dragon isn’t saying or communicating anything at present. Thus, it’s just a recording of the Impurity’s side of a conversation that is long past.
Just for reference, the transcription goes:
(( Your mission is completed. Yet, you still wish to remain? ))
(( Your body is fragile and mortal now. ))
(( Your life will more than likely end out there if you continue. ))
(( Alright, I understand. ))
(( Farewell, my other half… ))
(( I must rest… ))
(( Watch over our friends for me… ))
The Impurity’s speech is even bordered with (( multiple brackets )), just like Azel’s is in the recording she left for Orta - further implying that, as with her message, it is merely a recording.[/quote]
In addition, the content of its message wouldn’t really make sense if it was not something said immediately after Saga. The “mission” was completed back then, and we know that the physcial dragon left the system at the end of Saga. This means that it would have been in this vulnerable state for some time by PD Orta, but the Impurity only implies that this is the way things will be in the future. Again this implies that this is a recording of events passed.
The line “I must rest” would also make far more sense if it referred to the Impurity’s impending deactivation following the events of Saga.
shes 13, i read it somewhere before…
As opposed to what? Dying inside Sestren space with the Heresy dragon instead?
This alone suggests the Heresy dragon is still alive, unless Lagi chose life over death before its passing at the end of Panzer Dragoon Saga. I’m still undecided on this issue.
I wonder why everyone thought she was older.
[quote=“Geoffrey Duke”]
As opposed to what? Dying inside Sestren space with the Heresy dragon instead?
This alone suggests the Heresy dragon is still alive, unless Lagi chose life over death before its passing at the end of Panzer Dragoon Saga.[/quote]
Though you sound surprised, as far as I can tell this is indeed what it seems to be saying. Going quietly into oblivion with the Heresy Program would presumably have been a painless end (paralleling, perhaps, the ending of Edge at the same time?) What eventually befalls the dragon is physical exhaustion through gruelling combat, and it clearly would have been a courageous and noble decision to return to the world and face that end, given the easier option of being “deactivated” with the program. This would explain the Heresy Program’s mildly surprised tone.
To show you what I mean by all this, here is a paraphrasing of what I believe the Heresy Program is communicating in these few short lines. It certainly makes sense when compared to the original text, even if other interpretations are of course possible:
(( Your mission is completed. Yet, you still wish to remain? ))
“The duty you shared with me is over, and the Towers are all deactivated. Yet, you still desire to exist?”
[Don’t forget that an artificial entity of logic and reason would be mildly surprised at something wanting to exist beyond the completion of its purpose.]
(( Your body is fragile and mortal now. ))
(( Your life will more than likely end out there if you continue. ))
“Without the powers I shared with you, your are a simple creature of flesh and bone. The hostile forces of the world will surely cause you a painful end if you continue out there without me. Is it worth returning, knowing that you will have that to face?”
(( Alright, I understand. ))
(( Farewell, my other half… ))
(( I must rest… ))
“I understand your determination to live, and I will grant you your wish. Goodbye, you that helped me complete this mission. Now my purpose is fulfilled, and the time of my deactivation has come.”
(( Watch over our friends for me… ))
“Watch over those that helped us save this world”.
I hope that makes my theory a bit clearer. This interpretation makes sense from a literal standpoint, at any rate, and given the amount of evidence against this scene not being a recording, I can’t help but think that this is the case.
[quote=“Lance”](( Your body is fragile and mortal now. ))
(( Your life will more than likely end out there if you continue. ))
“Without the powers I shared with you, your are a simple creature of flesh and bone. The hostile forces of the world will surely cause you a painful end if you continue out there without me. Is it worth returning, knowing that you will have that to face?”[/quote]
I still wonder what would have happened with Lagi if he had not returned. The Heresy Dragon was offering him an alternative, and I’m not sure if that was an alternative way to die. Perhaps he would have been deactivated too (in Sestren everything consists of data), just like the Heresy Dragon was. This could mean a reactivation was possible (perhaps this was the plan for the Ancient’s resuscitation?).
I’m positive the converstation between Lagi and the Heresy dragon took place in the present but I must admit to having some doubts about that now. I’m wondering how true to the original Japanese script our version of Panzer Dragoon Saga really was. Apart from the manual and some dialogue in the game refering to the ancients as being human, it was supposed to be very accurate.
I’m curious, Geoffrey; why are you discounting the fact that the scene is witnessed inside a Memory Cell? Everything else from the other Memory Cells is simply pieces of recorded conversations that have taken place in the past. (It is worth noting also that each Cell tends to only contain the speech of one character, as this one seems to, though this is not a strict rule.)
Even the placing of the message within the memory cells makes sense. I don’t know if anyone else has noticed this, but there is a clear difference between the two “Memory Blocks” (i.e. collections of Memory Cells) guarded by the Diodopures:
The first Block contains only recordings from the very recent past (that is, the events of Panzer Dragoon Orta). The second Memory Block, however, contains recordings of much older times: including the events of PD1, Saga, and the “She is the seed of our future” / “We must protect it at all costs” message which clearly refers to the very young Orta. It is in this second Memory Block that the Cell containing the Heresy Program’s message can also be found.
The system identifies it as just another Memory Cell, and there is nothing to suggest that Memory Cells can contain anything other than recordings. As the Cell is in the second Memory Block, it is consequentially located in what would be its correct time period: long prior to the events of PDO. And as I’ve tried to illustrate above, the content of the message makes sense if we are to heed these implications: that this is just a recording of a conversation which took place long ago.
(( Watch over our friends for me… ))
That line makes it seems like its the Divine Visiter talking to the dragon.
[quote=“Lance”]Even the placing of the message within the memory cells makes sense. I don’t know if anyone else has noticed this, but there is a clear difference between the two “Memory Blocks” (i.e. collections of Memory Cells) guarded by the Diodopures:
The first Block contains only recordings from the very recent past (that is, the events of Panzer Dragoon Orta). The second Memory Block, however, contains recordings of much older times: including the events of PD1, Saga, and the “She is the seed of our future” / “We must protect it at all costs” message which clearly refers to the very young Orta. It is in this second Memory Block that the Cell containing the Heresy Program’s message can also be found.[/quote]
The way I see it, the memory cells contain information that is sorted chronologically. Memory Cell 1 and 2 contain information from PD Orta, Memory Cell 3 from the period between PD Saga and Orta and Memory Cell 4 from PD Zwei. Memory Cell 5 is called a “Deep Memory cell” and doesn’t seem to follow the chronological order, since it contains quotes from Mobo but also Gash (“We?re not really alive. We?re just being forced to live”) and of course the Heresy Dragon. The Residual Data Sector contains information from PD Orta and also the events from PD 1 which for some reason are not present in the normal memory Cells. Anyway, I wouldn’t say that memory Cell 5 has information from an older period of time, since it also has a recording from Mobo.
Well maybe there is: the mini-game “Enemy Attack!”. In the beginning when it says “Access Level 4”, the system is actually getting information from Memory Cell Level 4, which contained the information of the period around the events of PD Zwei. The presence of Shelcoof and Sealances seem to indicate that the system also stores other data in the memory cells.
I think you’ve missed my point, D-Unit; I’m not trying to say that Memory Cell 5 has information from an older period of time. Rather, I’m pointing out that the second Memory Block (that is, set of memory cells) you encounter has information from an older time peroid, which it certainly does.
Each Memory Block is clearly in a different section of the system, as you have to travel some way between them. Thus Memory Cell 5 in the first block is of course not the same thing as Memory Cell 5 in the second block. Here’s a summary of what the different Memory Cells in each Block contain:
First Memory Block (guarded by Diodopure Lv1)
Residual Data Sector - Dialogue from the Empire in PDO
Memory Cell Level 1 - Dialogue from Abadd in PDO
Memory Cell Level 2 - Dialogue from the Dragonmare Squadron in PDO
Memory Cell Level 5 - Dialogue from Mobo in PDO
Second Memory Block (guarded by Diodopure Lv2)
Residual Data Sector - Dialogue from PD1
Memory Cell Level 3 - Dialogue regarding the young Orta
Memory Cell Level 5 - Dialogue from Gash in PDS
Memory Cell Level 5 - Dialogue from the Heresy Program
As this illustrates, there is not meant to be a chronological order to the Cells within each Block. For example, the dialogue from PDO in the first Block is not arranged numerically in the same order that it occured. However, the second Memory Block obviously contains information from long ago, wheraes the first is limited to recent events. So the Heresy Program is located in exactly the right part of the system for things to make sense if it is a recording, as I’m suggesting.
This even shows something which I had overlooked before. The dialogue from the Heresy Program appears in the exact same cell as the only dialogue from Panzer Dragoon Saga - Memory Cell 5 of the second Block- further specifying its origin in the time period I’m suggesting.
I strongly suspect that the Memory Block that the “World Analysis System” accesed simply contained data on Orta and the dragon, rather than anything on PD Zwei, but I’ll post more on that later.
I have no doubt that they can store visual as well as audio data (and more), which is why it seems that you can see the Heresy Program in its Memory Cell as well as hear it. However, the Memory Cells still only contain recordings, which is my point. The actual reinterpretation and action going on in that sub-scenario is clearly the function of this “World Analysis System”. It seems as if it is some program running simulations with the recorded data on Orta and the dragon in order to come to new conclusions.
[quote=“Lance”]I think you’ve missed my point, D-Unit; I’m not trying to say that Memory Cell 5 has information from an older period of time. Rather, I’m pointing out that the second Memory Block (that is, set of memory cells) you encounter has information from an older time peroid, which it certainly does.
Each Memory Block is clearly in a different section of the system, as you have to travel some way between them. Thus Memory Cell 5 in the first block is of course not the same thing as Memory Cell 5 in the second block.
[/quote]
I understand what you mean now. Since you wrote a summary of the memory cells, allow me to add Level 4 in the second memory block to it (I had to replay this level several times before I found out how to reach it):
Second Memory Block (guarded by Diodopure Lv2)
Residual Data Sector - Dialogue from PD1
Memory Cell Level 3 - Dialogue regarding the young Orta
Memory Cell Level 4 - Dialogue from PD Zwei
Memory Cell Level 5 - Dialogue from Gash in PDS
Memory Cell Level 5 - Dialogue from the Heresy Program
Indeed, good point.
Although I’m not sure how this could be true, I’m interested to read your theory on this.
I agree, but I think the memory cells are capable of holding gene data too.
I’m not.
Lagi was in fact watching Orta, so what makes us think the Heresy dragon didn’t mean Orta, first and foremost, when he asked Lagi to “watch over our friends for me”? Couldn’t this possibly be a recent memory?
[quote=“Geoffrey Duke”]
Lagi was in fact watching Orta, so what makes us think the Heresy dragon didn’t mean Orta, first and foremost, when he asked Lagi to “watch over our friends for me”? Couldn’t this possibly be a recent memory?[/quote]
Ah, so you are suggesting that it could be a recent recording of something said by the Heresy Program? An interesting point. If you check my above reasoning, though, its exact placement within the Memory Cells and Blocks does seem to suggest that it was recorded at the time of PDS.
Also, as far as we know, the Heresy Dragon had never encountered Orta; so referring to her as its “friend” would have to be an extremely loose employment of the word.