At the end of Panzer Dragoon Orta the body of the dragon was exhausted and died as soon as it hit the ground. After the credits the baby dragon or coolia is seen walking beside Orta. Where did it come from? Did the heresy program download itself into another coolia? Did another dragon creat activate somewhere?Again we are left to ponder and wonder with our crazy theories, about these puzziling topics. Not that its a bad thing. Any suggestions?
If you want my honest theory, Smilebit really, really rushed the ending. I mean, would it have killed them to show us a cut-scene detailing how Orta met the baby dragon?
Anyway, seen as the baby dragon is described as an “heir”, (if I remember correctly,) my personal opinion is that it is in some way the physical offspring of the dragon. I’d like to think that the dragon’s body crumbled into energy and ashes, leaving that little creature behind in its wake.
I am positive, however, that the Heresy Program / Impurity did not download itself into another body, as it has long since been deactivated (since the end of Saga). Also, the fact that the baby dragon is with Orta suggests to me that it came into being as the previous dragon died. After all, how else would she find it? It’s certainly not the only possibility, but I don’t feel that much of a time gap is implied between the dragon’s death and the baby dragon “epilogue”.
This theory also raises the point that, if the dragon did “reproduce” in a way, it would be kind of unique. Typical Ancient Age dragons are thought to be incapable of reproducing themselves in any way - like their Drone neighbours - and so further differences in the nature of this dragon are highlighted.
My theory is that the ability to spawn an offspring - perhaps only at the point of death? - was bestowed upon the physical dragon-creature when it parted with the Heresy Program / Impurity prior to Orta. We also have the huge physical change in the dragon’s body between PD Saga and PD Orta to account for, and I believe that the dragon was morphed into its last state by the Impurity as some kind of a parting “gift”.
After all, it seems incapable of permanent growth evolution (as opposed to suitable morphing) in PD Orta, as opposed to the earlier games. If I am correct in thinking that the dragon was only evolving with an intent to reach the Blue Dragon / Solo Wing form, and that it was only morphing because of the effect the Impurity was having on it, this would all make sense, as the Impurity is no longer associated with it.
Sorry, I got onto a bit of a tangent there, but legaiaflame is right: the whole dragon-offspring thing is very mysterious…
Don’t underestimate the importance of the mini-games here. In my opinion every mini-game in PD Orta is a part of the storyline. One of them shows the baby dragon in Sestren as the system is trying to identify it. The screen at the beginning only shows the dragon, not Orta. This implies that Orta was only in that mini-game for gameplay reasons. In reality, only the dragon had been there. The system detects gene base code 12 in the dragon, presumably the Light Wing genes, which clearly shows the relation to Lagi. It doesn’t show us whether or not the dragon originated from Sestren, but this is probably the case. It wouldn’t surprise me that the way this dragon was created is similar to the way Orta was created.
This could be linked to the appearance of the baby dragon in Saga. The reason why there were two dragons there is because Lagi didn’t die. Lagi created the baby dragon, but lived on himself since his mission was not yet completed.
My thoughts exactly 
Man you sure like to write.I don’t like to read long posts.I’m just lazy 
Sorry, I wasn’t being very clear - my point was that Zwei’s Pandra’s Box, Saga’s Box Game and the Box Game menu inside Orta’s Pandora’s Box are clearly just cheat menus and extras, and are not meant to be part of the Panzer Dragoon canon. I agree that the sub-scenarios and things in Orta should be considered valid.
I’ve thought about this strange little section too; while the Empire’s and Mobo’s extra episodes make perfect sense, the three Sestren-related ones are far more enigmatic. Maybe I’ll post up some ideas on them when I have more time. I don’t see why the genetic code identified by the system has to be the Light Wing’s, though - surely it’s just the dragon’s genetics in general?
I wasn’t specifically aiming towards your comments, it was just to emphasise the importance of these mini-games
Since there were 12 D-Units in PD Saga, I think there’s a connection with the gene base code 12 that Lagi had in PD Orta. The three mini-games in Sestren you mention are indeed enigmatic, but perhaps one of the most interesting parts of PD Orta. They show how the system is capable of running simulations, for example battle simulations, which informs us that Sestren was already aimed at designing tactical plans for warfare. Which means that basically Sestren already knew the outcome of a battle before it began. Sestren gets every data that it requires for these simulations from the memory blocks.
I think the Central Consciousness mentioned in Quick Shooter 2 is not the Heresy Dragon that is resting in a memory block, but rather the Sestren A.I. itself, or what’s left of it. Also, the fact that it is “re-constructing memory units from analysis data”, makes me wonder just what he’s planning to do.
What i find weird in PDO is the fact that you get to ride that baby dragon…i mean seriously doesnt it look ackward for orta to be on such a small dragon that doest look like it can get off the ground?
This did occur to me at some stage. From what I recall, however, “twelve” was just the arbitrary number of pieces that the Light Wing’s creators divided - or even smashed - the original memory plate into. I don’t expect that it had any real connection to the nature of the data stored within the plate, and thus I think it’s just a coincidence. I could be wrong, however, and you could be totally right. Hopefully Panzer Dragoon Orta 2 - if it ever comes out - will shed some light on this strange categorisation.
I actually considered it a bit differently; that after the encounter with the dragon in Orta, (which seemed to take the system a bit by surprise,) the Sestren system ran those simulations in order to be better prepared should they meet again, or maybe just to better understand the dragon.
I agree that it can’t be the Heresy Dragon - or, as you’ve probably noticed I like to call it, the Impurity - from the memory block. I’d say that only a recording of the Impurity exists there, however, rather than that being its place of rest: the scene involving it in Episode 7 is clearly just a recording, after all. I’m quite sure that it is still deactivated from the end of Saga.
And yes, I too thought that there were some sinister overtones to the System’s analysis of the dragon, and of the mention of a “central consciousness” that was still active… was that the exact term used?
[quote=“Lance”]
I actually considered it a bit differently; that after the encounter with the dragon in Orta, (which seemed to take the system a bit by surprise,) the Sestren system ran those simulations in order to be better prepared should they meet again, or maybe just to better understand the dragon.[/quote]
I didn’t see it in that perspective, but in this case I was only referring to the Battle program. The Continous Battle Simulation program is only mentioned in one mini-game (I think it’s Quick shooter 3), the other minigame features Orta and Lagi in an other type of simulation. This simulation closely resembles the events that happened in the game itself, but there’s one big difference. In the game itself, you are shooting down “enemies” around you that originate from transparant figures that are flying around Lagi. The strange thing is that shooting enough of them results in a succesfull analysis. In the mini-game shooting the enemies releases small spheres that fly around you, almost the opposite as in the game itself.
My view on this is that after the baby dragon entered the system, it ran a simulation again of Lagi to re-construct memory units, but I haven’t been able to come up with a good explanation for this.
If you mean that the conversation between Lagi and the Heresy Dragon is just a recording, I don’t think so. The Heresy Dragon had completed its mission and doesn’t do anything anymore, but he was having a conversation (if you can call it that) with Lagi at that particular moment.
Analysis results reported to the central consciousness.
Request from central consciousness.
Continue monitoring world systems.
Continue observation of target.
No, I can’t see it as anything other than a recording, and I’ll explain why:
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The Impurity - well, whatever you want to call the big symbolic entity - was fully deactivated / erased / destroyed immediately after Panzer Dragoon Saga; that was the whole point of the ending. If this did not happen, the Tower network would not have been shut down with it, and well, not much would make sense at all.
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You hear it in a memory cell; everything else that you hear in memory cells is a simple recording of something that has already happened. (This one just happens to have visual as well as audio, like Azel’s message.) After all, we agree that all those random voices in the other memory cells are just recordings, and are not happening then and there, right?
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The Impurity did not split from the physical dragon there and then, so why would it be saying “farewell” then? The Impurity must have split with it immediately after Saga’s ending sequence, just before it was wiped, so this is clearly a recording of their parting conversation.
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It’s clearly only one side of a conversation, as your dragon isn’t saying or communicating anything at present. Thus, it’s just a recording of the Impurity’s side of a conversation that is long past.
Just for reference, the transcription goes:
(( Your mission is completed. Yet, you still wish to remain? ))
(( Your body is fragile and mortal now. ))
(( Your life will more than likely end out there if you continue. ))
(( Alright, I understand. ))
(( Farewell, my other half... ))
(( I must rest... ))
(( Watch over our friends for me... ))
The Impurity’s speech is even bordered with (( multiple brackets )), just like Azel’s is in the recording she left for Orta - further implying that, as with her message, it is merely a recording.
Good point, I think I will just have to agree with you then One thing though: didn’t the Heresy Dragon still have a black colour at the end of Saga?
Anyway, I wonder what he meant by “I must rest” then? Was he completely destroyed, or just deactivated?
I believe Geoffrey wrote a theory regarding this somewhere on the site, but I think his point was basically:
After the end of PD Saga that we actually see, the Impurity finishes its ascension to the position of Sestren AI, and thus changes from black to gold - the gold “avatar” being a representation of the controller of the system. After that, it had that “farewell conversation” between it and the physical dragon, (which ended up being recorded by the System’s ceaseless monitoring apparatus,) then promptly became destroyed / deactivated.
Well, if that wasn’t exactly his point, it’s definitely mine - it seems to make sense.
I don’t mean to sound morbid, but “I must rest” sounds like a typical death-bed phrase to me. Also, it says “The Divine Visitor must destroy me” at the end of Saga, so I’m assuming that it has essentially been deleted.
I see what you mean, but again I have a slightly different view on this. If the Heresy Dragon really became the new Sestren, then what’s that central consciousness commanding the system in the mini-games? In my opinion, that golden colour represents the Will of the Ancients. The Heresy Dragon separated that will from the Sestren AI. So Sestren is still active, but the Ancients’ will has disappeared together with the Heresy Dragon.
What do you all mean when you tlak about PDO sestren mini games anyway?
I’m positive I’ve checked every piece of new material in a 100% Pandora’s Box and I found no relevant plot material except for Iva’s story (and maybe the Mobo episode :P).
Meaning the mini-shooters with Orta and the dragon, I would assume.
An interesting point, but I fear that the Sestren AI is totally destroyed as well, as only by annihilating it at the end of Saga - as we saw, it dissipated into the void - would the Impurity have logically been able to take its place.
I think that this “central consciousness” may not be an AI that rules over the whole system, but rather one of the many lesser AIs, one that is “central” only in terms of the combat/simulation program and its gathering of data. Alternatively, Perhaps it is the “central consciousness” of the whole system, and was never destoryed in the first place; the Sestren AI may just have been a grand overseer that depended on this “central consciousness”. The system clearly has many AI components, but without the thing we call the Sestren AI - and its motivation to fulfill the Ancients’ will - they are all floundering, doing little else but endlessly monitor the world. If there was a central consciousness other than the Sestren AI, it would be involved in such pointless tasks as well.
Don’t forget also that that strange worm boss in Episode 7, Ofnir, is titled as the “central data unit”, which is surprisingly similar.
So the Heresy program is deleted, its has completed its mission. Lagi the other half of the Heresy program died at the end of Panzer Dragoon Orta. Supposedly, when Lagi died he had an offspring a continuation of himself. A pheonix reborn from the old dragons ashes. So is this really going to be Lagi in the next game? I mean we have no idea where this baby dragon game from?
[quote=“Lance”]
I believe Geoffrey wrote a theory regarding this somewhere on the site, but I think his point was basically:
After the end of PD Saga that we actually see, the Impurity finishes its ascension to the position of Sestren AI, and thus changes from black to gold - the gold “avatar” being a representation of the controller of the system. After that, it had that “farewell conversation” between it and the physical dragon, (which ended up being recorded by the System’s ceaseless monitoring apparatus,) then promptly became destroyed / deactivated.
Well, if that wasn’t exactly his point, it’s definitely mine - it seems to make sense.
I don’t mean to sound morbid, but “I must rest” sounds like a typical death-bed phrase to me. Also, it says “The Divine Visitor must destroy me” at the end of Saga, so I’m assuming that it has essentially been deleted.[/quote]
After its victory over Sestren, the Heresy dragon said the will of the ancients was with it now and so must be destroyed. I think it was Lord Craymen at the old forums who confirmed this as another mistranslation which instead of meaning destroyed meant deactivated.
Bear in mind that as soon as Lagi split from the Heresy dragon he was no longer immune to the ravages of time given his newfound mortality. Somehow I doubt he separated from the Heresy dragon not long after A.F. 119 only to re-emerge 37 years later in A.F. 156. He couldn’t have left much earlier than A.F. 156 without there being a single sighting of him.
I wonder who else he was watching. He intervened on Orta’s behalf a little too late IMO.
You know…if they make a new panzer…that baby her dragon made could grow to be more powerfull than the blue dragon in the box game…which in my opinion is the best dragon…
Who knows? The dragon might venture on a new evolutionary path in which it adapts to the world in its own way. The creators will surely experiment with new designs.