SI know full well how bad the X-Box and 360 is in Japan, where if the Japanese are luckly they might get 2 games a month and one worth buying. I just like to know what this has got to do with Pal users never having it so good, when its anything but if you’re a SONY or Nintendo fan . Thats the point.
Sony and Nintendo have treated Pal users like sh8t . Where M$ from the get go have made sure that most of its In-House games ship just 2 weeks after the USA roll out and all games have 60 Hz support , or @ least a fullscreen display and that goes for 3rd parties too. Much better than what any other corp have ever offered in Europe
I love how Al3xand3er can sneak in a subtle condemnation of 360 shortages in the same post he spins PS3 shortages as inconsequential…
A good example of the rampant Sony dogmatics Team Andromeda is sick of, and I have been sick of for years as well. All I personally want for this generation is an honest horse race, but for those of us who’ve maintained some level of objectivity and realism about this fanboy infested console scene over the years, I think we have every right to take some gratification from this year’s long overdue disillusionment over Sony’s status quo divinity.
And Kimimi, I love you but really… were you being any more mature? The only reason TA’s short and to the point expression of personal emotion can be seen as a contribution to discussion per se is that you chose to discuss it.
Sony is fallible, just like MS and Nintendo, surprise surprise. I’m indeed loving it that they aren’t able to keep the majority snookered anymore. But beyond that who really wants to be taking things personally on behalf of giant corporations…
[quote=“Heretic Agnostic”]
And Kimimi, I love you but really… were you being any more mature? The only reason TA’s short and to the point expression of personal emotion can be seen as a contribution to discussion per se is that you chose to discuss it.
Sony is fallible, just like MS and Nintendo, surprise surprise. I’m indeed loving it that they aren’t able to keep the majority snookered anymore. But beyond that who really wants to be taking things personally on behalf of giant corporations…[/quote]
I couldn’t not discuss it really, and I have no problem with people wishing failure upon whatever gaming company they choose.
The “anti-fanboyism” I find the most tiring are the Anti-Sony and anti-Sega brigades, bashing their drums and creating posts with the quality of “Eat shit and die”, as though either company cares. I have no particular desire to discuss any love (or lack thereof) I have for any faceless corporation - hardware is nothing more than coincidental when it comes to a good game.
I too want a good, honest three-way tie this coming generation, the likes of which I haven’t seen since the 16 bit era. I don’t think this will come to pass, but I can but hope.
The feeling is mutual, by the way Heretic
[quote=“Team Andromeda”]
SI know full well how bad the X-Box and 360 is in Japan, where if the Japanese are luckly they might get 2 games a month and one worth buying. I just like to know what this has got to do with Pal users never having it so good, when its anything but if you’re a SONY or Nintendo fan . Thats the point.[/quote]
I pointed that out because you were talking as though Microsoft have got everything right, when in fact you just happen to not live in the place they screw over the worst. What’s the difference between the way Sony and Microsoft treat their “third best” regions? None. Except you don’t experience the recieving end of one of them.
…can you say “Dreamcast”?
Oh, and the enforced 60hz support is actually worse for consumers in general - certain titles (such as Dead or Alive) will not work for people who do not have a 60hz tv, so rather than being able to make do with a crappy conversion they are left with a game they cannot play because the tv in their bedroom won’t work with it. Great eh?
I’d also like to point out that I currently own 2 Xboxes and a 360, and I have also owned the PDO Xbox as well as an additional third PAL Xbox, so don’t presume which side I’m on
That would be your imagination. I condemn both the same, I only mentioned MS because I know TA is quite the supporter so I was showing him that the company he likes can do just as bad as Sony in some areas.
Anyway, I think the Sony shortages WILL have an impact but not because people will think Sony gave them the shaft by not releasing it in Europe at the same time (which is what the initial discussion was about by the way and I don’t think they have done as it’s barely a launch at all with the units available and getting 100K in Europe wouldn’t make any difference), but simply because the worldwide shortages will give the advantage to Nintendo’s launch if they pull it off better, and from what I’ve read it seems they will do that.
PS: TA, since you act as if you don’t get my previous point I’ll make it simpler. Focusing on TWO markets is easier than focusing on THREE. It’s basic Math. To get in a little more detail, when the vast majority of the system’s games are western and the system itself mainly (only?) sells in the west and the company who created the system is western, then it is natural that things will be handled better for that system in the west as opposed to an eastern system with a majority of eastern games.
How do you think the Japanese consumers feel with Microsoft’s presence there? Should M$ eat shit and die for being so pathetic about doing things that would make the Japanese care for their system (having blue dragon and a handful of other games is too little too late imo)? But hey, you are not in Japan, you are in Europe so you couldn’t care less, right? You only care that Sony’s fuck up gives you the chance to yell “EAT SHIT AND DIE SONY”
Edit: Well, my connection fucked up and I posted this too late. Kimimi said some things better than I have above but hey, after all the effort it took to type it out I’ll leave this up!
Well, I admit I have no direct experience or real knowledge of the issues with PAL/NTSC support for EU localisation, and Kimimi you took up the unenviable chore of carrying forward an analogy introduced by Al3xand3r…
But you are trivialising the discrepancy in the 2 markets, and also equating localisation quality in the one instance with localisation quantity in the other. As a general rule western console games don’t even sell in Japan, or for that matter XBOX games even if they’re created and sold there first. The XBOX failed with the JP market, and regardless of the factors that originated that failure at a certain point I don’t see how you can fault MS for not dumping more titles onto shelves to collect dust.
EDIT: Well the above can be taken as a response to Al3xand3r as well now…
I’ll just reinforce that you are again ignoring the discrepancy in your issues there. I have no idea what if any issues there may be with the quality of localisation in Japan, but failures in trying to succeed in a market and failures in valuing or fully responding to the demands/idiosynchrasies of an already successful market are not the same thing.
But then you’d have to find the reasons for the success of that market. Surely if they were treated so bad then it wouldn’t have been a success, therefor Sony’s success likely means that they are treated atleast satisfactory in the ways that matter. And again, the games that matter in Europe more are probably western games (EA…), just as in Microsoft’s case, and usually those games don’t have problems - atleast to my knowledge. Though of course certain Eastern behemoths like Square Enix’s games also help in these shores too. Or hey, perhaps the average user doesn’t even care about the 50-60hz difference…
As for my analogy that you aren’t fond of (seems you aren’t fond of me in general really, but hey, who cares), I don’t think it’s that bad. Microsoft’s failure in Japan happened for a reason, and that reason was that they treated the Japanese market in unsatisfactory ways for them. The PS3 isn’t even out and yet Sony already gets criticised for neglecting Europe with it in such harsh manner while of course since we love Microsoft we don’t even mention what they do/did in other specific regions… We just say Sony will die because of it even though a company in the past didn’t die for doing similar. Meh.
Also, I wrote that analogy while talking about the system launches. The fact another argument (localisation of games) was introduced halfway through the discussion by someone doesn’t mean I was responding to it specifically.
Where have I said that M$ gets everything right , I haven’t becasue I could make a massive list of the screw ups they made like LIVE Arcade and the 360 BC is a joke, the Core system is usless , lack of being able to surf the web or check emails, lack of being able to play ones media on the system (movies) and so on . I’m talking about how the corp treats the Pal market, which is a dam sight better than what any console corp as ever done in Europe before .
The diff is mate unlike the 360 in Japan, There’s some 30 million PS2 owners that should be treated better . Where there’s no market you don’t get much support , just look at the way all cconsole corps treat Australia .In fact I’m amazed that M$ is even still in Japan
You can count on 1 hand the ammount of people that have a TV that can’t handle a 60 Hz Tv , and there’s not many games that don’t work @ 50 Hz anyway . Also its not just a M$ problem, try playing the likes of Metroid Prime II in 50 Hz. Great eh ?
What that got to do with anything. You don’t need to remind me how bad SEGA Europe was inthe Saturn and DC days, that’s why I had to import. My point is M$ have treated Pal users better than any other console corp inthe history of the industry.
BTW, I also like to point out that I own a PS2 and a PSP , so much for taking sides eh ?.
That has got nothing to do with it at all , and its pretty lame excuse for a start . Nintendo and SONY treat Pal users poorly becasue they know they can get way with it . M$ are in all 3 key markets as well btw .
As I said regardless of the factors that originated that failure… and as you said you got sidelined by, as it so happens, the introduction of criticsm about that successful market. But it was your own (very curious) choice to become so distracted as to introduce a criticism that is not even relevant to you personally and that, still, is not directly parallel to the issue that distracted you…
So… we’re going around in circles now Al3xand3r, and it all started with one person expressing a subjective take on the situation. And you’ve now criticised that person essentially for just the fact of having a personal take on things.
Of course TA will usually only bitch about things that affect him, just as you will usually only bitch about things that affect you personally. Such as Mass Effect being developed for X360. Your righteous concern for the bigger picture seems to only manifest according to it’s convenient pertinence to other clearly personal views you have. shrug.
I read some rubbish in my time but that takes some beating . Anyone that knows now I’m not a fan of what’s happing in Japan with the X-Box or the 360 . Even a alien on Mars could have worked out having a console with no RPG’s will have trouble selling in Japan . Still @ least M$ are still there, even though they’re lossing tons and are a laughing stock in Japan
As for not caring , Oh yeah sure I’m love the fact that SEGA Japan will be backing the PS3 more due to market share in Japan and so happy that the likes of Capcom never made much use of the X-Box ect
Umm, the part you quoted is talking about success, not failure Heretic. Anyway, just because you say “regardless of” about something, doesn’t mean that something actually is irrelevant to the discussion.
And I didn’t say I got side tracked. I said my analogy was not refffering to the things the others thought it did initially. But hey, since the dicussion went that way who am I to switch it back? People talk about what they want, I simply explained why I mentioned that analogy since you were so unhappy with me and the way I introduced it.
As for the rest of your post, it may be a good idea to get a little less obsessed with me and stay a little more on topic. Whatever caused all this anyway (all the mentions of my name by you in this thread, not just the last)? Actually, don’t answer that. If you want to say something about me and not about any particular or current conversation, there’s a private messaging function. Use it. Or atleast make a new thread with a title like “Al3xand3r is an idiot who makes invalid arguments” so I can ignore it without thinking I may miss something about the current dicsussion.
Edit: In response to your last reply TA, well, I never saw you say “EAT SHIT AND DIE MICROSOFT” because of their fuck ups in Japan >_>
As for the rest of your post, it may be a good idea to get a little less obsessed with me and stay a little more on topic. Whatever caused all this anyway (all the mentions of my name by you in this thread, not just the last)? Actually, don’t answer that. If you want to say something about me and not about any particular or current conversation, there’s a private messaging function. Use it. Or atleast make a new thread with a title like “Al3xand3r is an idiot who makes invalid arguments” so I can ignore it without thinking I may miss something about the current dicsussion.[/quote]
I never ever mentioned you by name for a start I don?t even now what it is , and I never ever quoted your board name . All I was doing was respounding to your assumption that some how I don?t care about what a happens in Japan, which couldn?t be more far away from the truth.
That’s odd, I’m sure I’ve seen you yourself express distaste for excessive post quoting before, and if I’m to make it clear that I’m responding to your “particular” part of the “current conversation” without requoting you then the only other real option is to use your name. Looks like I can’t win there so…
The really funny thing here is that I was responding directly to someone else’s contribution to the topic, and I think it was clear enough Kimimi was not misinterprettiung you but making her own statement. Sorry if I’m crushing your world or anything but “on topic” is defined by everyone’s contributions not just your own. The discussion had been going it’s different ways even before you chose to declare what your topic was.
[quote=“Al3xand3er”]As for my analogy that you aren’t fond of (seems you aren’t fond of me in general really, but hey, who cares), I don’t think it’s that bad. Microsoft’s failure in Japan happened for a reason, and that reason was that they treated the Japanese market in unsatisfactory ways for them. The PS3 isn’t even out and yet Sony already gets criticised for neglecting Europe with it in such harsh manner while of course since we love Microsoft we don’t even mention what they do/did in other specific regions… We just say Sony will die because of it even though a company in the past didn’t die for doing similar. Meh.
Also, I wrote that analogy while talking about the system launches. The fact another argument (localisation of games) was introduced halfway through the discussion by someone doesn’t mean I was responding to it specifically.[/quote]
Do you want me to be unfond of you personally? In a sense I was actually just pointing out that the issue of XBOX’s failure in Japan and the issue of Sony’s failure to please one certain european are not the same “topic”.
Speaking of… we had been discussing something about system launches hadn’t we?.
Except that in actuality this whole analogy thingy started in response to a comparison of platform history and not system launches. See that’s what topics do, they go their different ways, you’re a funny one for getting all uptight and confused about it only now…
[quote=“Al3xand3er”]That would be your imagination. I condemn both the same, I only mentioned MS because I know TA is quite the supporter so I was showing him that the company he likes can do just as bad as Sony in some areas.
Anyway, I think the Sony shortages WILL have an impact but not because people will think Sony gave them the shaft by not releasing it in Europe at the same time ***(which is what the initial discussion was about by the way and I don’t think they have done as it’s barely a launch at all with the units available and getting 100K in Europe wouldn’t make any difference)***, but simply because the worldwide shortages will give the advantage to Nintendo’s launch if they pull it off better, and from what I’ve read it seems they will do that.[/quote]
Hmm, so basically what you’re saying is that rather than stay “on topic” about the ramifications of PS3 shortages at lauch you were responding personally to a statement that you found disagreeable… by your own criteria does that mean you’re obsessed with TA then?
As for the second paragraph I myself had initially introduced the subject of PS3 shortages worldwide being Sony’s bigger problem, and since you appeared to be responding to what I had said (though I guess we can’t be sure since directly referencing someone either by name or material seems to carry some phobic stigma for you) then in that sense the initial initial discussion was no longer the topic.
I have simply been responding to the material at hand, sorry to disappoint you Al3xand3r but I just don’t feel about you the way you seem to want me to, it’s not that personal. But you seem to have an issue in understanding that other people have the same right and weight to evolve a topic as you do, so maybe that’s why you take being disillusioned about that so personally?
I was obviously not reffering to the actual use of my name, I was reffering to unecessary comments about me that you made almost every time you mentioned my name, such as this one:
I guess I must be dumb to not be able to see how you thought that’s contributing to what was being discussed.
No, as I didn’t make comments like the one above. I sticked to the current discussion (maybe not 100% nice but I was still making points about the actual current dicussion).
If it wasn’t that personal then you should have kept comments like the one I mention here out of it. That’s all I was trying to say in my last reply. Get it or not, I don’t really care. I said nothing about you, your character or ability to do anything (or TA’s for that matter) so it was an uncalled for attack out of nowhere, just like other comments you made.
Hey it’s nice to see we’ve made some progress, at least your definition of what’s part of of the current discussion seems to have expanded somewhat… oh but wait, you’re still just giving yourself alone that freedom. Ahh well…
As for the unnecessary comment that one particular time I mentioned your name well there’s just no excuse for it, and fortunately for me I need none either. Unlike some people I don’t employ innuendo to evade accountability, but mostly just to save time and effort. And even then I usually reserve the tactic in relation to others who’ve demonstrated their own affinity for innuendo, yet for some reason they always seem to get uptight about it from someone else. Ahh well…
Obviously nothing I have said was from out of nowhere, it all pertains to my developed opinions on your general credibility and objectivitly based on the material at hand. As an established persona in this forum what you contribute to one topic does not exist in a total vacuum either, at a certain point criticism of an established pattern of argument is a legitimate form for criticism of an argument on the table.
Getting back to the original topic (well, not really the original topic, but the one Shadow brought up about the PS3 being delayed), it was really to be expected. The question now is how this will affect the console wars. The 360 already has a substantial head start, and this is likely to help it gain a greater momentum (in Western countries, at least).
I’d also like to say I must agree with Team Andromeda’s comments about Microsoft’s treatment of PAL territories. Here in New Zealand, the Xbox brand is just as strong as that of the Playstation; you’ll find an almost equal amount of people supporting either brand (with Nintendo being quite a bit less popular in the console market at this time). Maybe, this is due to our obsession with sports and westernised games, but it could also be partly due to the availability of titles, which usually come out here at roughly the same time as in the States. It’s quite possible for Japanese games to arrive months after their US release.
Also, about the 50htz/60htz debate, I personally feel that with the high definition era upon us, it’s time to move away from supporting 50htz televisions. The majority of TVs can at least play 60htz now, and it is clearly a superior format. If anyone here has tried Episode 7 of PDO in 50htz, they’ll notice that if the game is played on a 50htz TV, the cut scene at the end of the level is out of sync with the character’s voice - not the case in PAL 60 mode. Problems such as these, plus borders and slow down make me wonder if it really is worth continuing to support such an outdated standard. If it means compromising releasing the game in 60htz, it’s very disapointing to say the least.
The sales data actually suggests that there are 2.5 times more PS2s than Xboxes sold in NZ and Oz… Although admittedly, brand perception and actual sales can often be incongruous.
Just wanted to point that out This recent development certainly isn’t helping Sony, but MS still has a considerable hill to climb in the majority of the primary territories.
Ah, interesting. If you talk to people round here, the average gamer certainly quite aware of both products, and a great deal of them tend to prefer the Xbox brand. Although admittedly my perception of the average gamer could be quite inaccurate; I’m mainly referring to people of my own age group here.
The sales data actually suggests that there are 2.5 times more PS2s than Xboxes sold in NZ and Oz… Although admittedly, brand perception and actual sales can often be incongruous.
Just wanted to point that out This recent development certainly isn’t helping Sony, but MS still has a considerable hill to climb in the majority of the primary territories.[/quote]
Isn’t Australia the number one market for X-Box ? , I?m sure it’s the only places where on a monthly basis its been able to outsell the PS2 (though not for total userbase). I feel sorry for the Australians, even thought they are Pal their treatment been pretty poor by all corps with consoles shipping months after they shipped in other Pal countries, the Dreamcast launch was just a PR disaster over there .
Still though I must say M$ treatment of most Pal users as been the best by any major Console manufacture I don?t think that?s even up for debate. Most M$ In-House or published games ships just a matter of weeks after thier USA counter parts with full support of 60 Hz or @ least full screen support . We’ve never seen that from SONY, NCL or the likes of SEGA, in fact Nintendo Europe is about as bad as it gets (even worse than SEGA Europe in the Saturn Days). In the UK I can really see more people going for the X-Box brand, but its seems to me that the Germans, French Still need some working on from M$.
I know its all rather childish to almost celebrate SONY troubles, but after all the lies from Ken and Phil I can?t help it , they told some beauties in the PS2 days, and are doing just the same now. I just hate the way some gamers and more worrying the press seem to sallow it as the gospel when coming from SONY, yet are quick enough to question other corps.
I couldn?t tell you how mad it made me that the press would question SEGA rather humble claims of peak 3 million polygons from the DC, yet had no trouble swallowing 60 Million polygons from SONY ect.
And SONY doesn’t reallly need to tell so many lies with the PS3 , I think its a more than capable console and a great pice of kit with @ least this time a decent GPU inside the machine .
This recent development certainly isn’t helping Sony, but MS still has a considerable hill to climb in the majority of the primary territories.