i see that all of you support that a future pd game should stay on the xbox, and that you guys do post valid points.
perhaps it can sell if its an xbox exclusive, but it all depends on how its all executed. I think that timing and marketing are the most crutial aspects of selling games.
Well, unfortunately that’s something that our japanese friends have yet to learn.
[quote=“Geoffrey Duke”]
Why do you think Outrun 2 will be a Playstation 2 exclusive despite how easy it would be to port to the Xbox (owing to the arcade game running on Xbox hardware)? This way, Sega can release one game exclusively for one console but one that has a massive user base.[/quote]
And maybe cos they are already making an X-box racing game (Sega GT Online)
As well as the whole Sega 3D Generations (or whatever all those 3D remakes of old titles like Phantasy Star and Space Harrier etc are called) range of games being PS2 exclusive (I think they are atleast)
A bit OT: What do u guys think of the exclusivity? I think it’s either some sorta deal Sega made OR they are trying to get the sony fanboys to know of their classic gaming glory and potentially turn them to sega fans…
I really wanna see how Space Harrier and Phantasy Star will turn out…
And to add to the original topic and my first reply about it:
Another reason they made a shooter could be to get the team members familiar with the PD universe once again. Sure some TA members were still in it but I bet there were also many new ones and it’s also been years since another PD game was in creation so I don’t think an RPG would reach it’s full potential if they went for it on their first time of working together. Just look at all the negative comments Orta got, even from people that loved it. Now they can see what they did wrong and how the fans think they mistreated the PD universe in various ways and try and fix it for their next try…
[quote=“Al3xand3r”]Wasn’t the Shining Soul game on the Saturn an action rpg as well?And how do you know that the SF1 remake is the new shining force they were talking about? Perhaps there is another for one of the “big” consoles…
And by the way the Playstation 2 isn’t as “weak” as you make it sound, it’s got a lot of titles that have really good graphics… Just look at the latest screenies of MGS: Snake Eater for example… I don’t think many games can claim that they rendered a forest level as good as that. Sure the PS2 has limitations but, ultimately, it’s not the size of your console, it’s how you use it that matters. I’m sure with enough effort a PD RPG would be very impressive on the PS2 as well. Perhaps not as impressive but I seriously doubt it would be anything to complain about…
And as for the point made that the RPG would be “lost” among the rest RPGs, well, that’s up to the marketing. And I don’t think there’s that many RPG titles even. It’s mostly the FF series with most other titles coming for the sloppy seconds. But if something intrigued the audience enough it could get much more than that. Plus imagine the impact of “the legendary PD series coming on your PS2 for the first time!” style presentations… I could see that working pretty well.
And uhm adult gamers? I’d be willing to bet that the PS2 has the most adults(as well as the most teenagers propably) in it’s user base… Just because the X-box only has adults (which I find hard to believe as well) it doesn’t mean it has more adults…
And, for the record, I don’t want the next RPG to be on the PS2, (mainly because of Orta being on the X-box as well as having a certain dislike for Sony…) I just found those points to be quite invalid (imo) therefor I had to post against them…[/quote]
Shining Wisdom for the Saturn was developed by Camelot Software Planning and wasn’t a bad game. These new Shining Soul games are nothing more than a way for Sega to generate revenue from a popular name. I’m still undecided as to whether or not this Shining Force remake is a good thing. I was expecting a sequel to Shining Force 3 (and maybe a Shining Force 3 compilation in English).
Have you compared the Playstation 2 version of Rainbow Six to the Xbox version? I swear you’ll laugh your head off the moment you lay eyes upon it. The Playstation 2 couldn’t replicate the special effects seen throughout Panzer Dragoon Orta, so what makes you think the console could graphically represent the setting of Panzer Dragoon just as convincingly?
[quote=“Al3xand3r”]
[quote=“Geoffrey Duke”]
Why do you think Outrun 2 will be a Playstation 2 exclusive despite how easy it would be to port to the Xbox (owing to the arcade game running on Xbox hardware)? This way, Sega can release one game exclusively for one console but one that has a massive user base.[/quote]
And maybe cos they are already making an X-box racing game (Sega GT Online)
As well as the whole Sega 3D Generations (or whatever all those 3D remakes of old titles like Phantasy Star and Space Harrier etc are called) range of games being PS2 exclusive (I think they are atleast)
A bit OT: What do u guys think of the exclusivity? I think it’s either some sorta deal Sega made OR they are trying to get the sony fanboys to know of their classic gaming glory and potentially turn them to sega fans…
I really wanna see how Space Harrier and Phantasy Star will turn out…[/quote]
Sony wants exclusive games for the Playstation 2 because multi-format titles developed for one of the other more powerful consoles first risk exposing the graphical limitations of the Playstation 2. You know: the most powerful console known to man. For some reason I suddenly feel like laughing. The Playstation 2 also needs exclusive titles to set it apart from the other consoles by necessity.
I’m sure Sega would port Outrun 2 to the Xbox if the Xbox was popular enough in Japan…
[quote=“Geoffrey Duke”]
Have you compared the Playstation 2 version of Rainbow Six to the Xbox version? I swear you’ll laugh your head off the moment you lay eyes upon it. The Playstation 2 couldn’t replicate the special effects seen throughout Panzer Dragoon Orta, so what makes you think the console could graphically represent the setting of Panzer Dragoon just as convincingly?[/quote]
The X-box resembles a PC more than a PS2 therefor a conversion of a game that was originally on the PC is bound to look better on the X-box.
Is your point here that you are judging a console by the bad games on it?
In the same way I could say, hey Geoffrey, have you seen Rent-A-Hero on the X-box ? Man I hope sega doesn’t make more games on it because the graphics sucked so the X-box must suck really bad!
If you want examples of good gfx on the PS2 check out MGS3 like I mentioned before. I was quite impressed by some of the screenshots. Baldur’s Gate: Dark Alliance looks great and has very nice water as well. I don’t remember about reflections but it had very cool and realistic wavings.
So, anyway, tell me what you’d find so repulsive and hateful if a PD RPG was done with that level of graphics quality…
Sample screenies here:
ps2fantasy.com/games/mgs3/sc … ges/23.jpg
ps2fantasy.com/games/mgs3/sc … ges/20.jpg
ps2fantasy.com/games/mgs3/sc … ages/1.jpg
I really wouldn’t complain if a Forest of Zoah kinda area in PD RPG looked like that no matter which system it was on.
I never said the PS2 could represent the PD world “just as convincingly” I merely said I doubt the graphics would have anything to complain about if enough effort was put into it. Feel free to complain about lower resolution textures or no real reflections and such but to me those things aren’t that importand if the overall result looks as good as those screenshots I posted. And with PD’s art direction it would be even more impressive since PD’s strength is the designs rather than the actual gfx. That’s why Zwei and Saga looked so good even with some damn low poly models and low res textures…
I don’t need shiny water to feel drawn into the world. And frankly I’d rather it wasn’t so shiny and reflective in Orta, it’s too much, I’d rather it was clearer. Anyway, even the Saturn did some good water, sure it had no real reflections but who cares, it looked great and I’m sure they could use similar tricks for the PS2. PS one even did some very nifty underwater effects in MGS1.
Anyway we are getting quite off topic here…and propably the main reason you said all that was this quote from another thread:
So I don’t think we’ll ever agree or whatever therefor I’ll just end my posts about this topic with this last reply…
I’m enjoying every moment of highlighting the “graphical limitations” of the Playstation 2 while the console lasts because I remember a time when graphics were the only thing that mattered to a Sony fanboy. The Playstation 2 couldn’t even handle an accurate conversion of Grandia 2 for the Dreamcast, and yet the console lives on thanks to nothing but sheer popularity. I guess Sony fanboys still delude themselves into thinking the Playstation 2 is the most powerful console ever created. How could the console everyone else bought not be!
I don’t think any sony fans are claiming the Ps2 is technically superior- there are just more games, especially japanese games, that is why they have it.
Sony is a brand like Nike. It isn’t a better product, it is simply an image people buy into.
Third generation PS2 games just look incredibly good for the limitations of the hardware. Have a look at games like Silent Hill 3 and Fatal Frame 2, two examples that do not only exist on papers, I already played those and was amazed. But on the other hand… no Sega team has enough knowledge of the platform to achieve such quality.
The XBOX could do much better because it is the most powerful system around, no doubt. Just wait for the next gen games on Microsofts powermachine.
[quote=“Lance”]I believe the main problem with Orta was not its genre, though, but the way in which it was executed. It tried to be quite plot-heavy for an action game, but the plot meant virtually nothing if you hadn’t played Panzer Dragoon Saga, which most people who bought Orta wouldn’t have. Continuity for fans is fine, but I think the confusingly continued plot will have served to alienate many potential new fans.
[/quote]
This is a very perceptive point. In the previous two shooters (PD, PDZ) the story was basically stand alone; no previous knowledge aside from the manual was necessary for either game to ‘get into’ and understand (notice I did not say fully 
.
The whole tie in with Azel and Abadd’s odd quest must have been WEIRD for a lot of Panzer rookies–the experience might not have resonated quite as clear with the player as the first two titles did.
You’ve all probably read this interview a thousand times before but since everyone seems glum about the series ever seeing a game again I’ll remind you that the Director/Project Leader of Orta has already put together a Design Document for a Panzer Dragoon RPG:
http://www.tokyopia.com/interviews.asp?articlesid=28.
Also, as to the skepticism about companies and profit, that is absolute nonsense. Every single videogame company on earth is in this business to make money–simple as that. To make Sega look bad because they want money is absolutely ridiculous.
And to end my second post, I’ll futher remind you of Sega’s dedication to us. Read:
Q: Was there ever any doubt as to whether Orta would make it to North America? Is it because the sales of the original trilogy were positive enough or because there was the strong cult following that cemented the decision?
A: Just by looking at the sales units for the US market, it was dissatisfying. However, we were surprised that the level of feedback we have recieved from outside Japan is perhaps bigger than within. Sales in Japan are somewhat dependent on timing. Rather on being concerned with timing, we wanted to make the title the best we could, quality-wise. Also, no matter how the market reacts, we wanted this series to be revived.
Pay close attention to that last sentence.
Here’s the link:
http://www.begn.be/content/viewItem.php?i=183
Sure Sega is in financial trouble these days, but these things do not last forever. Panzer Dragoon has just as good a life span as Sonic. It all hinges on the company’s vitality really.
Well I say yes.
ORTA is easily the best SEGA game they made since they went 3rd party. It?s also 1 of the best games SEGA ever made in their history.
Sales prove nothing (just look at REZ/JSR). ORTA is 1 of the best games I have ever played.
And may I just say that Ryu Ueda rules.
I’m sorry, but you are mistaken. If that was true Camelot wouldn’t have fallen out with Sega over a difference of opinion, and BioWare would never have created Baldur’s Gate. Money is a huge factor yes, but it is hardly the only motivating factor.
It’s true that because of the increasing costs of development companies are more inclined to focus on developing sure-fire hits that are molded around the tastes of mainstream gamers (companies like EA) in favour of taking the risk of developing something innovative because it isn’t guaranteed to sell. However, that hasn’t put a dampener on innovation.
[quote=“Geoffrey Duke”]
I’m sorry, but you are mistaken. If that was true Camelot wouldn’t have fallen out with Sega over a difference of opinion, and BioWare would never have created Baldur’s Gate. Money is a huge factor yes, but it is hardly the only motivating factor.
It’s true that because of the increasing costs of development companies are more inclined to focus on developing sure-fire hits that are molded around the tastes of mainstream gamers (companies like EA) in favour of taking the risk of developing something innovative because it isn’t guaranteed to sell. However, that hasn’t put a dampener on innovation.[/quote]
I have to agree with DivineDragon. Of course money isn’t the only motivating factor, but in the end every game is made with the intention of making a profit. When Bioware made Baldur’s Gate, they had the intention of selling enough games to make a profit, just like Smilebit and Sega when they made PD Orta. I can’t see companies making games just to please the fans when they know they wouldn’t sell enough copies to cover the development costs.
BioWare was just the developer. Interplay published the game, so in the end, BioWare were free to pursue their dream of making a game PC gamers wanted to play without worrying about turning a profit. They never expected Baldur’s Gate to sell the number of copies it did. In other words, the game wasn’t developed because BioWare could see into the future and knew it would sell 2 million copies.
If BioWare went to Interplay now and suggested developing Baldur’s Gate, Interplay would turn them down because it believes PC games are no longer profitable. Would Interplay be making the right decision? After all, business is business.
Not all games developers make games just to make money.
I’ve been under a rock for awhile - can you please tell me what the difference of opinion was that made Camelot and Sega go their seperate ways?
[quote=“Kadamose”]
I’ve been under a rock for awhile - can you please tell me what the difference of opinion was that made Camelot and Sega go their seperate ways?[/quote]
Sega launched the Dreamcast during the development cycle of Shining Force 3 Scenario 3 and the game essentially became Sega’s conscience (proving that Sega was still making games for the very popular but dying Saturn). Camelot wasn’t thrilled.
I can only imagine how good a Dreamcast Shining game would’ve been. Camelot could’ve made all the difference.
[quote=“Geoffrey Duke”]
BioWare was just the developer. Interplay published the game, so in the end, BioWare were free to pursue their dream of making a game PC gamers wanted to play without worrying about turning a profit. They never expected Baldur’s Gate to sell the number of copies it did. In other words, the game wasn’t developed because BioWare could see into the future and knew it would sell 2 million copies.[/quote]
D-Unit is still right though, it’s just a difference of how they make enough profit to cover development costs. In some cases it’s like D-Unit said the goal of selling enough copies and in other cases their development costs are already covered by the publisher. But do you think that BG would have been made anyway for free if they hadn’t found a publisher to get paid from? And do you think the publisher would have paid them for it if he thought it wouldn’t sell enough copies to cover develpment costs? It’s the same thing either way really, D-Unit is right in the point he tries to get accross…
Interplay was a different company back then, headed by smarter people (such as the current head of Obsidian). They had a different business ethos which involved developing quality PC titles. Baldur’s Gate was a risk – the type of risky investment no modern publisher would invest in because it isn’t a sure-fire hit now.
My point was that many developers simply love making games. Feel free to argue otherwise.
Noone ever said that developers don’t love making games, but they are just lucky enough to do what they love. And you don’t work for free even if you do what you love. Except for all those freeware developers but ofcourse most of them don’t (and shouldn’t) work on them as if their paycheck was depending on it 
And like someone had said sometime ago, maybe it was a risk in their opinion but in mine it never was, it covered a HUGE gap in the PC games market, that of the RPG, it was bound to be a success if it was done right (and ofcourse it was)
PDO WAS a risk though wasn’t it? So Sega is the way you believe other developers are as well. You don’t expect them to keep churning out games like PDO even though they don’t sell do you? They do it sometimes, but if they did it more they’d ultimately end up getting bought out or closing down or something…
[quote=“Geoffrey Duke”]
Sega launched the Dreamcast during the development cycle of Shining Force 3 Scenario 3 and the game essentially became Sega’s conscience (proving that Sega was still making games for the very popular but dying Saturn). Camelot wasn’t thrilled.
I can only imagine how good a Dreamcast Shining game would’ve been. Camelot could’ve made all the difference.[/quote]
Well, let’s see - the Saturn was released in late 1994 and killed off in early 1998, giving it a 3 and a half year lifespan - which isn’t too shabby. I really can’t blame Sega for doing what they did; supposedly, the Saturn was a BITCH to code for, due to the parallel processors and no one (except Team Andromeda) were able to draw the full potential out of the architecture. The Katana project was simply a way to correct this little error, as well as beating the competition to the 128 bit arena - and it turned out to one of the greatest consoles ever.
What killed the Dreamcast was Sega’s marketing division and it’s tarnished name. Everywhere you go, you will hear people say ‘Sega sucks’ - and it’s a pity really, because that’s so far from the truth. Sega simply is the best game maker in the world - they just have the most retarded marketing division and business strategy the world has ever seen.
Though I can understand Camelot Software Planning’s anger over the matter, it does not justify defecting to Sony (Beyond the Beyond) and then defecting again to go to Nintendo (Mario Tennis, Mario Party 4). That’s betrayal in its purest form.