I would like to point out that Panzer Dragoon never sold extremely well on the Saturn. In fact, Orta sold just as well, if not a tad bit better in the US market than the previous two shooter games, but did sell less games in Japan, due to the Xbox market there being absolutely crap. Japanese consumers in general are paranoid about buying foreign goods, unlike us Americans, whom don’t hold very many loyalties aside from he whom provides the best value good.
Anyway, the shooter genre is not dead. The only reason you may think that way, is because there are less shooter games released these days, and only a handfull of those are any good. Obviously the team that put together Orta cared about the fans, and making profit. The game had some changes made for the sake of drawing new fans in, which is fine. They also included a lot for the longtime fans of the series. I think all that is in Pandora’s Box in Orta is proof of that. The team already put down the time and effort to create that beautiful engine for the game, which I honestly still think hasn’t been beat graphically even now on the Xbox, or any other system for that matter. So they already have an engine for a new game, which is a huge expense. The media format is already 6x larger than a CD. I guarantee you those four Saga CD’s had a lot of redundant stuff on them. So it would be cheaper for them in that regard also. I am sure that a new game will be cheaper for them to develope now, and the fanbase has surely increased. I know a ton of PD fans that don’t have an xbox, and haven’t bought the game. There are a lot of factors going into this, and I can’t help but think that a new game won’t be that hard to do, rpg or shooter. The teams at Sega still know how to make great games, it is management that has always held them back. With Sega not losing money anymore, I can only hope that the creativity that formed in the company will show itself again. Hopefully this Sammy buyout won’t happen, and Sega can retain its sense of self.
Firstly don’t forget that Saga also had the engine from before since it’s a modified PD Zwei engine which in turn was (propably, not sure, quite a big leap in quality) an updated PD engine. So in that aspect Saga a headstart in cost.
Anyway, a new RPG will not be cheaper than Saga at all, back in the Saturn days they were creating extremelly low poly models and levels as well as extremelly low resolution textures.
Now everything NEEDS to be countless times more detailed and that results in much more time and resources needed even tho they already have the engine.
Also compare how many models and places a shooter needs and how many an RPG would need. Sure they could reuse some if they go for the same exact style but an RPG would need countless more NPCs and also a lot of fully explorable areas, not just a given path. And I don’t know about you but if they do make an RPG I’d like the environments OPEN and FREE to explore unlike Saga’s “go from point A to point B” areas or totally empty/samey open areas like Lake of Uru and the Forest of Zoah. They were great for the time but now I (and I’m sure I’m not the only one) expect more from my games.
So I’m sure the engine would need quite a few modifications/updates as well since just cos it can render all that in it’s current form it doesn’t mean an RPG that would need full freedom of movement plus areas that need to be more detailed like interiors of houses or ruins could look as good on it.
One of the creators in an interview commented on how they used texture libraries for a lot of Orta’s textures because it would be simply impossible to create everything by hand like they were doing for the Saturn games due to the huge ammount of resources and time that would be needed to achieve this now. Sure they could use texture libraries again for a lot of things but I doubt they can buy one that has that distinct panzer-ish look of ruins or other traditional panzer areas. They could only do it for generic things like desert terrain or wood or grass and such…And that’s assuming they don’t go for a unique visual style that would render libraries useless or atleast require modification of most/all of the textures in them in order to make them fitting.
Cheaper? I think not…
Amusement Vision has remade the original Genesis Shining Force for the Game Boy Advance. What the hell is Sega thinking? If the aforementioned remake and the Shining Soul games weren’t an attempt by Sega to make money from the namesake of the Shining series I don’t know what is.
I need to vent my anger on the subject in another topic…
I dont think there’s anything wrong with remakes of old games, in fact I quite enjoy some of them like nintendo’s legend of mana remake for gba. If they were just cash ins they wouldn’t be remakes they would be identical (like a lot of gba games are ports of SNES games) But also some games are worth the porting as well. Or the publishing into some collection of games.
Don’t really know about the shining soul games…I dont think they tried to fool anyone into thinking they are real rpgs in the spirit of the shining force games…
although i would like to see pd stay with its roots, i think an rpg will be the only way sega’s gonna make money off the pd franchise. sure, it’s gonna cost a whole lot more money to create it, but if it’s marketed the right way and people get exposed to it, then it’ll sell. Not to mention that it has to be on the ps2 to get as much exposure as possible. There’s a large rpg market on the ps2 and the critical acclain pd recieves should create some interest. I’m sure if sega gives smilebit (or whoever does it) the green light and gives it as much resources as possible, then it should do well.
No, Sega merely made two poor-quality Action/RPGs for kids and attached a well-known name to them. Do you find this acceptable?
I was expecting a new Shining Force game, not an old one reborn. Sega had no right to say that a “new” Shining Force game was in development when nothing could be further from the truth.
I don’t think the Playstation 2 could handle a new Panzer Dragoon RPG – LMAO. While Panzer Dragoon Orta may have been more successful as a Playstation 2 title, would any of us appreciate Sega if it decided to develop a new RPG for the Playstation 2 when a prequel was already made for the Xbox? Does Sega assume every one of its fans own all three leading consoles?
The Xbox is more than adequate for the task of fully realising the beauty of the Panzer Dragoon universe and is home to the appropriate target audience – mostly adult gamers. A new Panzer Dragoon RPG runs the risk of being lost in a crowd of many other RPGs on the Playstation 2, whereas it would stand out as unique on the Xbox.
I think that Orta should have been an RPG for various reasons, but mostly becasue it’s the current RPG (Saga) that really gives the Panzer Dragoon series its strength, rather than the shooters. Now, the shooters are very good games, and I know that cross-genre comparisons are often silly, but I think most people would agree that Saga is more appealing as a game than any of the PD shooters.
A very good RPG would almost certainly sell better than a very good rail shooter - which Orta is - as well, but admittedly more effort (and therefore money) would have to go into it.
I believe the main problem with Orta was not its genre, though, but the way in which it was executed. It tried to be quite plot-heavy for an action game, but the plot meant virtually nothing if you hadn’t played Panzer Dragoon Saga, which most people who bought Orta wouldn’t have. Continuity for fans is fine, but I think the confusingly continued plot will have served to alienate many potential new fans.
I think pretty much the same things regarding how a future PD game should be made, too…
Oh yeah, and they should probably release a future game on as many systems as they can without noticably screwing it up. This may be hard in PS2 terms, but couldn’t Orta have come out on the GameCube without too many complications? Surely the more exposure the game gets, the better…
Orta might have not been a huge success but it did something good for the next PD game : Sega knows now what console should hold the next PD game in order to hit the maximum number of fans (old and new).
*Orta might have not been a huge success but it did something good for the next PD game : Sega knows now what console should hold the next PD game in order to hit the maximum number of fans (old and new).
Orta build it up a bit.*
Yeah, despite Orta not being what everyone was perhaps hoping for, there is definitely more interest in the series - which many presumed dead - now, than there was prior to its release, which can only be a good thing.
A game will often sell more copies if it is exclusive to a single console. Gamers identify their consoles with the games available for them.
Why do you think Outrun 2 will be a Playstation 2 exclusive despite how easy it would be to port to the Xbox (owing to the arcade game running on Xbox hardware)? This way, Sega can release one game exclusively for one console but one that has a massive user base.
[quote=“Geoffrey Duke”]
No, Sega merely made two poor-quality Action/RPGs for kids and attached a well-known name to them. Do you find this acceptable?
I was expecting a new Shining Force game, not an old one reborn. Sega had no right to say that a “new” Shining Force game was in development when nothing could be further from the truth.[/quote]
Wasn’t the Shining Soul game on the Saturn an action rpg as well?
And how do you know that the SF1 remake is the new shining force they were talking about? Perhaps there is another for one of the “big” consoles…
And by the way the Playstation 2 isn’t as “weak” as you make it sound, it’s got a lot of titles that have really good graphics… Just look at the latest screenies of MGS: Snake Eater for example… I don’t think many games can claim that they rendered a forest level as good as that. Sure the PS2 has limitations but, ultimately, it’s not the size of your console, it’s how you use it that matters. I’m sure with enough effort a PD RPG would be very impressive on the PS2 as well. Perhaps not as impressive but I seriously doubt it would be anything to complain about…
And as for the point made that the RPG would be “lost” among the rest RPGs, well, that’s up to the marketing. And I don’t think there’s that many RPG titles even. It’s mostly the FF series with most other titles coming for the sloppy seconds. But if something intrigued the audience enough it could get much more than that. Plus imagine the impact of “the legendary PD series coming on your PS2 for the first time!” style presentations… I could see that working pretty well.
And uhm adult gamers? I’d be willing to bet that the PS2 has the most adults(as well as the most teenagers propably) in it’s user base… Just because the X-box only has adults (which I find hard to believe as well) it doesn’t mean it has more adults…
And, for the record, I don’t want the next RPG to be on the PS2, (mainly because of Orta being on the X-box as well as having a certain dislike for Sony…) I just found those points to be quite invalid (imo) therefor I had to post against them…
