Theory about the Dragon Crests - please post your opinions!

Panzer Dragoon
41

In my opinion, Pandora’s Box doesn’t contain a lot of facts, most of it is just speculation, and this was done intentionally. You also have to consider the fact that not all people in the Empire think the same way about the other civilizations. Iva’s father seemed to be a good example of that, even if he did work on the Dragonmare project. If he would have written such a report, it wouldn’t surprise if it had looked similar to the reports in Pandora’s Box.

And even if it wasn’t someone who’s part of the Empire who wrote this (speaking in the context of the game of course), then who wrote it? Surely this was written from the viewpoint of someone in the PD world itself, and that’s why I can’t consider the distinction between the dragons in Pandora’s Box as proof.

I’m afraid I completely disagree here. I am a new fan, but I never considered this information as facts. Smilebit didn’t want to educate us, they gave the player something to think about, just like the other games did, which is why they used a viewpoint of a scientist in the PD world itself.

42

This is, I agree, a good point. If I was assuming that the Empire did write these pages, I would have to assume that a benevolent character like him wrote them, otherwise it would make no sense at all.

Really, check my whole “omnipotent narrator” idea above, then try re-reading any section of the Encyclopedia, considering it to be narrated by a neutral voice such as I’m suggesting. From a purely literate point of view, I assure you, it still makes perfect sense.

The reason I believe that this is not meant to be the same kind of information is that it is not presented as actual documents that would exist in the Panzer world. It’s just a load of information that you can read in the “secrets” menu, wheras the similar information in Saga was presented as actual books, clearly written by actual (fictional) people.

I see no reason to believe that the narrator is a scientist. It occasionally paraphrases what the Imperial Academy has apparently worked out by this stage, but no personal details about the narrator are ever given or even implied. This is what leads me to think that it is just an impersonal, omnipotent narrator that does not exist as an entity in the world, but which is just being used - as a technical, literary device - to explain the world to the new player, who would otherwise know nothing about it, or the previous Panzer games.

43

I’m willing to accept the fact that it is indeed an impersonal narrator, but I just can’t imagine that the information about the dragons is correct. And things like this:

“Also, only one type of dragon unit has ever existed.”

Could you consider this to be a fact too?

Elsewhere, this is stated:

“The transformations are so dramatic that its different forms are almost unrecognisable as the same creature.”

Which could explain why the dragons are recognized as being different.

44

What about this bit? It comes from the information about the Great Fall in Pandora’s Box:

“It is said that the Seventh Emperor himself, deeply affected by the death of many of his subjects, rose to challenge the ancient ruins by using the power of the imperial fortress, Grig Orig. His Majesty sacrificed his own life to eradicate the foul creatures that resided within the ruins, and even disabled many of the surrounding ancient ruins with his valor.”

Now, why would this lie be told to new players if we know for a fact that the true events did not follow as was told here in Pandora’s Box? It seems more likely to me that this was an Imperial perspective. I don’t think Smilebit would have intentionally lied to us just to make the passage more interesting - they would have wanted to keep it compatiable with PDS.

One other thing, someone mentioned that in the Saturn Panzer games the Empire did not know the identity of Kyle, Lundi, and Edge. I seem to remember something along these lines (at least not knowing the identity of a dragon rider) in one of the reports. I think it’s possible, however, that information was spread and the Empire aquired it over time. Lundi stopped by at a Caravan on the way, and the Empire may have learnt news of Kyle from his companions. No doubt the Empire would be out to kill anyone who had ridden a dragon so they would be thirsty for information.

45

[quote=“Solo Wing Dragon”]What about this bit? It comes from the information about the Great Fall in Pandora’s Box:

“It is said that the Seventh Emperor himself, deeply affected by the death of many of his subjects, rose to challenge the ancient ruins by using the power of the imperial fortress, Grig Orig. His Majesty sacrificed his own life to eradicate the foul creatures that resided within the ruins, and even disabled many of the surrounding ancient ruins with his valor.”

Now, why would this lie be told to new players if we know for a fact that the true events did not follow as was told here in Pandora’s Box? It seems more likely to me that this was an Imperial perspective. I don’t think Smilebit would have intentionally lied to us just to make the passage more interesting - they would have wanted to keep it compatiable with PDS.[/quote]

Oh, I think I mentioned that passage earlier, but I probably wasn’t very clear about it. Specifically, the first line of that passage begins:

“According to the official Imperial records…”

Because of the immense neutrality of the narrator’s tone in general, I am led to believe that it is an omnipotent narrator simply describing these Imperial records to us. In other sections of the encyclopedia, it would be discussing the Empire in general, of course, but sometimes it seems to discuss things that I thought it was unlikely the Empire could know.

Some details, like the fact that the narrator knew that the Solo Wing was meant to be called the Solo Wing, still bother me if we were to assume that the document is Imperial. After all, there is nothing to suggest that any game-world characters knew the dragon’s forms from Saga as these names. As only the player was ever made aware of the name Solo Wing - it briefly flashed up on screen - the Empire also knowing of it feels like… well, I guess like Edge writing in his diary that the dragon was at Level 57 when he defeated Grig Orig, or Super Mario understanding that he is not only in the Mushroom Kingdom, but also in World 2 Stage 3 of the game. That was my feeling.

My first impression of the encyclopedia was that it must be Imperial in some way. However, its neutrality of tone (to the point, it seems, of almost disinterest in the Empire’s success or failure), and these strange details are what make me unsure.

46

Just a quick question, do we know for a fact that the dragon in PDO was talking to Lagi? (Farewell my other half) And not Orta, or the player again? Or perhaps it was a recording like Azel’s? And the recording searched for someone with a ‘gene base’ that resembled Edge’s in which case, orta would activate

hmm that wasn’t quick at all :slight_smile:

47

[quote=“Synbios16”]Just a quick question, do we know for a fact that the dragon in PDO was talking to Lagi? (Farewell my other half) And not Orta, or the player again? Or perhaps it was a recording like Azel’s? And the recording searched for someone with a ‘gene base’ that resembled Edge’s in which case, orta would activate

hmm that wasn’t quick at all ^_^[/quote]

I guess we don’t know for a fact, but looking at the dialogue it seems the most likely possibility:

(( Your mission is completed. Yet, you still wish to remain? ))
(( Your body is fragile and mortal now. ))
(( Your life will more than likely end out there if you continue. ))
(( Alright, I understand. ))
(( Farewell, my other half… ))
(( I must rest… ))
(( Watch over our friends for me… ))

The Tower-destroying mission was completed at the end of Saga, so the first line makes sense; the physical dragon’s body would be more vulnerable and fragile after the Heresy Program left it, so that would make sense. “my other half” would make perfect sense because of the long symbiotic relationship which the Heresy Program and physical dragon had. Most of these things would not apply nearly so well to Orta or the player.

In my opinion, it almost certainly is a recording, and several things would not make much sense otherwise. It is in a memory cell, after all, and everything else in the memory cells is a recording. We also know that the Heresy Program split from the physical dragon immediately after Saga, so it wouldn’t really make much sense for it to be saying goodbye and going over these details now. (“I must rest” almost certainly refers to its impending deativation following Saga.) There are other details, such as it being in exactly the right memory block and memory cell for it to be a recording from the time of Panzer Dragoon Saga. I actually went over all this recently in this thread about the baby dragon in Orta (the “recording / not recording” bit starts about a third of the way down the first page), so check that out if you need further convincing, or if you like reading long, convoluted arguments :slight_smile: