It’s difficult to make a distinction between all the names the dragon was called. You have the Heresy program, Lagi the Coolia and then you have the Heresy Dragon which is in fact both Lagi and the Heresy Program combined.What you call Lagi was the Heresy Dragon in the three first games, but not in PD Orta. You could say the Heresy Dragon disappeared when Lagi and the program separated. Before that, there basically was no difference between the Heresy program and Lagi, since they acted as one unit: the Heresy Dragon.
I’m just saying it’s not right to say Heresy Program = Heresy Dragon since the program might be older than PDZ’s story.
I think you missed my whole point Gehn…
Do you deny that Lagi, the coolia, is now and because of the Heresy Program or WHATEVER you wanna call it, the Dragon of the Legend, later named Heresy Dragon? Lundi recognised that Dragon in Lagi.
However Lance claimed the Seeker was wrong about the Dragon’s purpose because he didn’t even know about the program.
All I’m saying in reply to that is that that Seeker COULD be right of the Dragon’s original purpose even tho he didn’t know of the program. Same as Lundi recognised the Dragon of the Legend in Lagi’s power, the same way the Seekers did too so they could know what that dragon was going to be created to do… Who cares if they don’t know HOW it was created, they can still have info on it, unless you think the program was going to create any random dragon and created the “Dragon of the legends” by luck… It was only going to create this specific dragon and noone else, cos that’s what the program is… And it was only going to create that specific dragon for a specific purpose. It’s original goal, whatever it was. So the Seekers might have knowledge of that specific Dragon’s original purpose even if the Dragon didn’t follow it exactly and opposted TWOTA…
So in the end they might be right about Heresy (Or whatever you wanna call it) being meant to destroy/shut down the towers on first place as well and that the only difference and opposition with TWOTA here is the time frame and the reason in which it chose to do it… We’ve had long talks of this and it’s still a plausible theory unless suddenly everyone changed their mind. Still we know this Dragon is the Legendary Dragon and this Dragon is the ONLY Dragon with the power to destroy the Towers…
Aknowledging somebody’s power doesn’t enable someone to know it’s purpose.
Ofcourse not, where the hell did I say this Gehn?
A)Seekers know lots of shit cos of studying ancient tech and records.
B)Seekers see the Dragon’s power and recognise it as the dragon of the legends.
C)Seekers potentially know more about that dragon than just the legends from their Ancient records studying.
D)Seekers potentially MIGHT know it’s original purpose.
E)Why the hell claim they know it’s original purpose if they dont?
You still don’t see my point really… I’m not saying I KNOW things ARE indeed like this at all.
Lance said they cannot know of it’s original purpose because they don’t know of the program. All I’m saying is that it’s POSSIBLE they CAN know of the Dragon’s original purpose even if they don’t know of the program and the Dragon’s creation process… They can still know about the Dragon itself. That’s just it.
Could they be wrong? Mislead somehow? Sure. It’s possible, it’s happened before.
Could they be right? Again, sure, we even have info that hints in that direction.
By the way you had put it it seemed they would know it was the Heresy program because they knew it was the dragon that would destroy the TWOTA…
I never said or hinted anything of that sort at all. Ever. Ever. Ever.
You hinted it by not clarifying.
My last post isn’t clarifying anything more at ALL, it repeats the same things I said in all my previous posts except written in a much simpler way. So if you think my last post clarifies something that makes you see my point then it was also written in one or more of the above posts as well… In fact I specifically ACCEPTED that they do NOT know about the Program on my first reply to Lance…
Forget it.
you guys are troublemakers 
from what i’ve read i’m going to have to take gehn’s side in the arguments
but secretly i agree with alex in the arguments
Sorry for causing so much confusion, but my point was simply that - as the Seekers showed absolutely no knowledge of the dragon-program’s existence - it seems most likely that they were only talking about Lagi’s creation and purpose in that line. After all, Lagi literally came into existence in the care of their previous leader Lundi, and since then he had devoted himself to destroying the Towers. Because of that, the statement “your dragon was created to destroy the Towers” would seem to make perfect sense - from their point of view.
All I was saying is that it’s much less likely the Seekers were trying to comment on the dragon-program’s original, ten-thousand-year-old purpose in that line, simply because they did not know of its existence.
Lance and I’m saying that just cos they don’t know of the program it doesn’t necessarily mean that they have no actual info on the Dragon of the Legends that Lagi clearly is (because of the program obviously)…
Just cos they don’t know details of how the Dragon of the legend is created doesn’t mean that they don’t have info on what it’s objectives would be once it was created…
Again, I’m not saying this is how things are, I’m just saying that the fact they don’t know of the program does not instantly prove that they can’t know the Dragon’s original purpose… They could have records on it, after all that Dragon isn’t just a Dragon, it’s the Dragon of the Legends, if there’s Legends about him there can also be records with information on his original purpose. Can you say that’s 100% impossible while your side is 100% possible? I think there’s pretty much equal chance…
And also as talked about before we have other info that hint toward that direction as well, after all it wasn’t too long ago that most people here agreed that the Dragon did do it’s original purpose in the games, except it only did it prematurely for whatever reason… (I think it was you that had given the theory about the Dragon maybe seeing the towers wouldn’t be able to restore the planet cos they had grown hypoactive so he chose to free mankind from TWOTA by destroying the Towers right there and then…)
I certainly can’t, and I apologise if it sounded as if I was trying too. I do personally think that it’s the “most likely” eventuality though, which was what I was trying to explain. Even from what we know of the “dragon of legend” it seems that it was the servant (or even the “Messenger”?) of the gods or Ancients, not something that existed to destroy the Towers and oppose their will, so the Seekers would have to know about some seriously, vitally relevant knowledge that we do not. Of course the Seekers could know any number of extremely relevant and important things regarding the dragon and the Heresy Program that they never let on to Edge about, but here’s my line of reasoning:
- Is it likely that the Seekers knew about the Heresy Program?
Well, they never made any reference to it; no reference whatsoever. Much of their dragon-related knowledge came from Lundi, too, and even he did not differentiate between the Heresy Program and Lagi in the accounts that he left for Edge. So in my opinion it’s more likely that they did not know of the Heresy Program’s existence.
- Is it likely that the Seekers knew what the Heresy Program’s purpose was?
We know that the Heresy Program only became “impure” recently, and we know that it only started blowing up Towers recently. The Seekers said that the “purpose” of “the dragon” was to blow up Towers, so it just strikes me that this is most likely a deduction based solely on lagi’s actions. If lagi had indeed been this one supposed “dragon of legend” in the past, then he would apparently have been an enforcer of the Towers’ programme back then, doing the Ancients’ and Sestren’s bidding, so again the Seekers would have to have some really major knowledge that we know nothing about. If they didn’t on the other hand, then that single statement would still make sense because ever since lagi was created / born / brought into existence he had indeed been destroying the Towers. It would be a logical (if not entirely accurate) deduction.
Anyhow, if the Seekers did know what the Heresy Program’s original purpose was, and if this purpose did indeed involve the destruction of the Towers, that would mean that:
-
They were privy to otherwise completely unknown knowledge regarding why the Heresy Program was created, despite only roughly knowing what Sestren was.
-
They still did not understand that the Heresy Program existed.
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They attributed the Heresy Program’s purpose to Lagi, without understanding or realising that he was guided by the Heresy Program.
… or that they knew exactly what the Heresy Program was, but simply:
- They never let on to Edge about this knowledge of the Heresy Program or alternatively that they knew of its existence, despite the fact that they told him many other things about the dragon and that this seems equally (if not more) relevant.
All I’m saying is that in my honest opinion this explanation does not seem to be the most likely or the most logical. Of course, that doesn’t mean that it’s untrue; that’s a diffeent thing entirely. But as far as I can tell, the reason for the Seekers’ silence on the topic of the Heresy Program is that they didn’t know that it existed and they didn’t know why the Ancients created it, and that consequently any reference they made to “the dragon” was simply talking about Lagi, the current physical dragon.
Now that might not be true at all, it might all be completely incorrect; but judging from the evidence and indications we can gather from the games, it’s my own personal deduction of what is the “most likely” explanation.
I did indeed back that theory up for a while, but for various reasons I’ve concluded that (in my opinion) it’s not as likely as some of the other alternatives.
Holy crap, give me a break man :’( so long post…
Ok, ofcourse the Dragon of the legend was a servant, do you deny that the heresy program was a servant as well before it decided to oppose TWOTA?
I mean I thought the whole point of this was to talk about it’s ORIGINAL purpose, not what it decided to do after. So I’m saying the Seekers MIGHT know it’s ORIGINAL purpose and that it’s original purpose WAS what that Seeker said like the old theory you used to agree with said too. Since we seem to be talking about the Dragon decided to do AGAINST TWOTA then, no, they can’t know, I agree with that, only the Dragon itself can know. But then again did they just guess that he was created to destroy the towers? Why say it at all? That makes me think they were talking of the ORIGINAL purpose… When they recognise the Dragon as the Dragon of the Legends and say that it was created to do this and that it does make it sound like they talk of the original purpose and not of what it might have decided to do now… If they know of the Dragon of the Legends then they know that it’s not something just newly born in this era…
And no I do NOT think the Seekers know of the Heresy Program. I’m just saying that just that fact alone does NOT prove that they Can’t know of the DRAGON’s purpose. Just cos I don’t know details about something’s creation doesn’t mean I can’t what it’s created to do. I don’t really know how the spoon is created, what kind of metals they mold and what not but I do know it’s mainly made to eat soups and stuff with it… Do you see my point? Cos really I never claimed they know of the program. I specifically accepted they DON’T on my first post.
Anyway, I’m just discussing the alternatives, that old theory seems as likely to me as it always was…
[quote]About the ‘Divine Visitor’
{Zadoc} We knew something would appear
{Zadoc} to free us from the Tower’s will.
{Zadoc} It wasn’t until recently that we
{Zadoc} discovered what would save us.
{Zadoc} Your dragon is our salvation.[/quote]
Seems to me like they knew about the Divine Visitor (in the Ancient records) but they only heard about the dragon from Lundi. So they thought, like Lundi, that the dragon was the Divine Visitor who would free them from the Will of the Ancients.
But why would they be talking about a different original purpose when this is exactly the same purpose that Lundi told them the current dragon, the recently renegade, opposed-to-TWOTA, ignoring-its-original-purpose Heresy Dragon had? Why wouldn’t they just be talking about Lagi, who was very definitely “created” by the rogue Heresy Program in order to destroy the Towers?
So, Lance, you think that the program was never meant to be able and create a dragon with those abilities? it only was able to do that out of wanting to oppose TWOTA?
Cos like I said before I think it was always meant to create that dragon, just for a different purpose than what it ultimately did it for, except that different purpose was actually the same purpose just on a different time frame and situation like the old theory explains…
However:
D-Unit I think you just pwned me, I had totally forgotten about that 
Not at all; as I said at the beginning of this theory (and in that other thread too), I really get the impression that the Heresy Program was created to be exactly what it was, just like all of the Ancients’ creations. I just honestly don’t think that anyone intended it to do exactly what it eventually did.
As to the theory about it being made to destroy the Towers but only when their rejuvenation process was finished… it’s really one of the better theories, which is why I was all for it not so long ago. My only point here is that I don’t think this Seeker’s statement can be taken as a real indication that the Heresy Program itself was created to destroy the Towers, because given what we know this statement correlates exactly with what the Seekers thought regarding the current incarnation of the physical dragon.
You obviously dind’t get my point yourself.I don’t think otherwise either.