I’m also assuming that there can be parts we cannot see but Iva was in the Fallen Ground area with his fellow airship riders fighting wormriders when Orta appeared and aimed at Iva’s ship.
How is that suposed to happen?
[quote=“GehnTheBerserker”]I’m also assuming that there can be parts we cannot see but Iva was in the Fallen Ground area with his fellow airship riders fighting wormriders when Orta appeared and aimed at Iva’s ship.
How is that suposed to happen?[/quote]
Well, I’d suggest that the following might be what is meant to happen:
-
Iva’s Episode at the Fallen Ground begins. He and his fellow Imperials shoot down some Wormriders.
-
Orta and the dragon chance across the Imperial ships. They shoot down Iva and his fellows; Iva’s Episode ends.
-
Orta’s Episode 3 (The Fallen Ground) begins.
That would make reasonable amounts of sense, at least. The Fallen Ground area - the Sea of Ash - is made out to be pretty massive. It would make sense that Orta had been flying over it for some time before her Episode begins, and that she had taken out some “inconsequential” Imperial ships along the way.
what do you mean about
So are you saying that there might be some connections to the old games, or?
Look out, all those who haven’t played Orta. Massive spoiler post ahead…
But isn’t it just the Emperor who wants to do that? I thought from reading the information in Pandora’s Box that most people only employed in the Empire because their family got to live in luxury (or in Iva’s father’s case, using dragonmare fluids to make medicine), and being in the Empire is probably the furthest you can get from the bio-engineered creatures. Mind you, Evren seemed pretty bloodthirsty…
I guess… but I didn’t mean that they should be ignored completely. Sides, it’s loadsa fun taking down big armoured ships with berserker rages!! 
Yeah, but he doesn’t have to kill every single person…
[quote=“Lance”]
[quote=“GehnTheBerserker”]I’m also assuming that there can be parts we cannot see but Iva was in the Fallen Ground area with his fellow airship riders fighting wormriders when Orta appeared and aimed at Iva’s ship.
How is that suposed to happen?[/quote]
Well, I’d suggest that the following might be what is meant to happen:
-
Iva’s Episode at the Fallen Ground begins. He and his fellow Imperials shoot down some Wormriders.
-
Orta and the dragon chance across the Imperial ships. They shoot down Iva and his fellows; Iva’s Episode ends.
-
Orta’s Episode 3 (The Fallen Ground) begins.
That would make reasonable amounts of sense, at least. The Fallen Ground area - the Sea of Ash - is made out to be pretty massive. It would make sense that Orta had been flying over it for some time before her Episode begins, and that she had taken out some “inconsequential” Imperial ships along the way.[/quote]
You are forgetting about Mobo.
[quote]Lance wrote:
GehnTheBerserker wrote:
I’m also assuming that there can be parts we cannot see but Iva was in the Fallen Ground area with his fellow airship riders fighting wormriders when Orta appeared and aimed at Iva’s ship.
How is that suposed to happen?
Well, I’d suggest that the following might be what is meant to happen:
-
Iva’s Episode at the Fallen Ground begins. He and his fellow Imperials shoot down some Wormriders.
-
Orta and the dragon chance across the Imperial ships. They shoot down Iva and his fellows; Iva’s Episode ends.
-
Orta’s Episode 3 (The Fallen Ground) begins.
That would make reasonable amounts of sense, at least. The Fallen Ground area - the Sea of Ash - is made out to be pretty massive. It would make sense that Orta had been flying over it for some time before her Episode begins, and that she had taken out some “inconsequential” Imperial ships along the way.
You are forgetting about Mobo.[/quote]
Mobo doesn’t attack you straight away, there is a short bit at the start of this level where you are attacked by lots of those pure-blood monsters that you fight a lot of later in the level (I forgot their name), I’m assuming that during this time Mobo was re-grouping with the other worm-riders. That might also explain why you are attacked by the worm-riders in that sub-scenario, because they might have been searching for Orta.
PS sorry that the quote above is a bit of a mess, i have no idea how you use the quote thing properly.
Good point Drenholm.I had forgotten about that 
[quote=“Nevey”]
Yeah, but he doesn’t have to kill every single person…[/quote]
Lagi just did what Orta told him to do. Throughout the game he always obeyed her (that was his own choice though). The bond between the dragon riders and the dragon itself was different in the previous games probably due to the influence of the Heresy program on Lagi and the rider.
One thing’s for sure : Lagi and it’s riders are not anglels.
Thousands killed.
[quote=“D-Unit”]
Lagi just did what Orta told him to do. Throughout the game he always obeyed her (that was his own choice though). The bond between the dragon riders and the dragon itself was different in the previous games probably due to the influence of the Heresy program on Lagi and the rider.[/quote]
Good point… ah, now I hate Orta!!! ;D
Hey, just noticed… D-Unit registered on my birthday!
Yep, that’s right, which is why Orta is going to be the villian in the next Panzer game 
Unfortunately, as with most wars, the soliders are merely obeying a ruthless tyrant. Because they were often so mindlessly loyal to the Emperor, Lagi had no choice but to shoot them down if he wished to survive. Lets not forget that if Lagi had let himself be killed, there would have been no one to stop Abadd. He would have swept across the land, wiping out the humans who had brought “filth and destruction” into the world. So in effect, Lagi actually saved the Empire from it’s own destruction. As in any war situation, I doubt that Lagi wanted to destroy the Empire, he just did what he had to to slow them down.
I suggest reading the journals of Lundi, the first dragon rider. He felt almost exactly the same way. panzerdragoon.net/books/dragon_book_2.php
Cool, I’ll have to remember that
[quote=“Solo Wing Dragon”]
Yep, that’s right, which is why Orta is going to be the villian in the next Panzer game ;)[/quote]
The Seekers may have been right when they said she was the “harbinger of destruction”…
[quote=“Solo Wing Dragon”]
I suggest reading the journals of Lundi, the first dragon rider. He felt almost exactly the same way. panzerdragoon.net/books/dragon_book_2.php[/quote]
Another reason why the Heresy Dragon and the ancient rebels’ plan seemed rather evil to me.
Both the dragon riders and the Empire have a bit of evilness in them.
To me the PD games seem to be more of a clash of ideology rather than good vs evil, in all the games both sides are responsible for evil acts.
I don’t see how the dragon riders are evil.
What did Lundi do that was so evil? He was basically hunted down by the empire. Should he not defend himself?
And what about Edge, when did he kill people that he didn’t have to do so in order to survive/save other ppl?
And Kyle? He was attacked on first place as well no?
And Orta? When did she kill innocent ppl just for the heck of it? She was hunted as well no?
And exactly how “innocent” are you when you join a force like the Empire for your own well being? When you decide to kill REALLY innocent people just for that? Just because they didn’t want to join the Empire?
Seekers had that choice too but they chose to stand against them.
Maybe the Empire had noble causes at heart (though I doubt it) but what they basically were doing was trying to achieve world domination since from all the info we have about them all they do is destroy/conquer every city they come accross and doesn’t want to join them.
Maybe you’d feel better if the dragon riders instead did what most common people would do? Which is do nothin? “Evil prevails when good men do nothin” is the saying is it not?
I don’t think that the dragon riders are “evil”.
First off, “evil” is too strong a word, and is too commonly used by Bush. :\
But I guess they’re not exactly too pure of heart either. Although, yes Edge was defending himself and Zoah during Saga, I think his temperament pointed more towards that he wanted the entire Empire to rot in hell. Also, Orta struck me as a bit psycho. Ok, so “psycho” isn’t exactly the word for it, but she seemed a bit troubled…if ya know what I mean.
I have not too much to say about Lundi and Kyle because their personalities aren’t explored as much.
Oh, and, as they say in Monty Python:
“Evil will triumph, because good, is dumb.”
I don’t think Edge had that kind of attitude, he was working for them at first remember? His hatred imo was only toward certain things, like the people that killed his Captain, the ppl that wanted to destroy Zoah and so on, I don’t think he’d just want to see every single person belonging to the Empire dead at all. He even set aside his hatred toward Craymen (one of the ppl responsible for his captain’s and co-workers’ death) to help Azel and maybe it’s just me but imo he even grew a certain degree of respect for Craymen after he found out more.
If at any point he expressed hatred toward the whole Empire I’m sure it was only meant to show hatred against what the Empire stands for and their methods of achieving things. Not every single human being.
And Orta ehhh? Troubled ? Sure she had doubts for herself wondering if she was really just a weapon and such BUT did she hurt any “innocent person”? Did she go out of her way to attack an imperial city that hadn’t even heard of her or something? In all the Panzer games the dragon riders have a goal to achieve and the Empire usually gets in the middle of it what with trying to get Ancient technology to use for their purposes and also capture/kill the Dragon among other nice things like that… The Dragon’s and Dragoons’ purpose was never to destroy the Empire. They got themselves into that mess
I dont think you can accuse people in the empire army of being evil just because they joined, remember edge would have probably joined the empire if the events at the excavation site hadnt happened.
The reason I said that the game wasnt about good vs evil is because the reason Edge/Lundi/Kyle and the heresy dragon go after the empire and towers isnt because they are evil. Infact if the empire was a peace loving nation who happened to want to protect the towers i dont doubt that lagi would blow them up anyway. The reason(as i see it) that the heresy destroys the towers is to return the planet to normal control not because of any evil associated with the towers/ancients.
I dont think there really is any evil in the panzer dragoon games, maybe zavasta was murdering civilians but in the end he turned out to be on the “good” side anyway. Likewise the empire is just power hungry, they are not really an evil nation(is any nation?). At most the games boil down to the “goodies” vs the “baddies” although the overriding purpose behind the games (destroy the towers) seems to have nothing to do with good or evil.
[quote=“vyper03”]I dont think you can accuse people in the empire army of being evil just because they joined, remember edge would have probably joined the empire if the events at the excavation site hadnt happened.
[/quote]
I agree with you here.
[quote]Infact if the empire was a peace loving nation who happened to want to protect the towers i dont doubt that lagi would blow them up anyway.
[/quote]
The Empire was hardly peace loving, their entire history is nothing but conquest after conquest. As i see it, the empire wanted to harness the power of the towers to dominate the continent.
No, Zastava was evil. He was sick, twisted, and cruel. Just look how he mercilessly kills those at the excavation in the first disc of PDS. Can you really believe he wasn’t evil? Perhaps he had the same dreams/ideals as Craymen but he went about accomplishing them in the totally wrong way.
But i do agree with you about evil in the PD series. It is hard to see just who is the badguy. The empire isn’t evil, but well they aren’t exactly angels either. In the end it seems like the towers are the true enemy, they are relics of old holding man back.