The Genesis of the PanDra World

Panzer Dragoon
1

Okay so I gave the Book of Genesis some thought and I’m wondering about all the Gods/Ancients/Humans deal…
Each of the 8 parts and my thoughts:

1/8

-In the very begining people and Gods coexisted peacefully.“Everything was at peace”

2/8

-Here it says that at the “dawn of Genesis” Gods created Humans.Now I don’t know if “people” is refering to another beeing but already this seems missplaced…
The knowledge fo the Gods was suposedly placed on the souls of men since that would be the only way the could start a civilization.this was the wish of the Gods.Maybe this was the Gods’ way of feeling closer to the Humans and viceversa…

3/8

-The Humans used the wisdom of the Gods to shape the world.

4/8

-“Everything we see with our eyes,with one lone exception, was created in this time.”

I dunno what exactly this is refering to…

“The ruins were homes for Gods and humans.”

??

The monsters start doing the Humans’ bidding.

5/8

-Humans started to use their power to fight each other suposedly beacuse “of their fear of the darkness” (metaphorical? or is this Dawn and Dusk thing for real?..)

6/8

The Humans started using the knowledge fo the Gods to hunt each other down.The monsters were thaught to kill.

7/8

In the end of Genesis the Gods “left the wolrd” because of their dissappointment at the humans’s failure.The Humans were suposed to have constructed a world and they were now destroying it…

With the Gods’ “departure” the knowledge than once inhabited the Humans’ souls also left.Only the hability to destroy remained.

8/8

The Gods left but ensured first that the humans would die.

At this point : the Gods(the Ancients) leave the wolrd and shutdown the Towers.The climate and anything biological starts degregating and the monsters are givin a mission - to kill the remaining humans.

A thought crossed my mind : maybe the DV is just like the “things” that suposedly inhabited the Humans’ souls and that enabled them to be creative.Granted that can be a metaphor …

Reading this left me with some doubts.This text leads me to believe that the Ancients might in fact not be Humans.

Thoughts?

2

I’m convinced that you could find out the truth about the Ancients and the Towers in these books. It’s just a matter of interpreting everything correctly.

[quote=“GhenTheBerserker”]-“Everything we see with our eyes,with one lone exception, was created in this time.”

I dunno what exactly this is refering to…[/quote]

The exception is probably the dragon.

If Craymen was correct, the Towers did not yet exist when these wars started, so they were not what humanity feared (strangely enough, Lundi’s diary suggests otherwise).

Remember what Gash said: “Those monsters are from the Ancient Age. For some reason, they now thirst for human blood.” I think it was also him who told about a legend that the Tower burned three continents in one night.

From what we know, it seems the Ancients had no intention of killing humanity. They only wanted to keep them under control.

3

My understanding of the Book of Genesis is that the humans’ destructiveness, creation of weapons and burning of the earth actually took place. It seems very likely that this represents the terrible wars which the Towers’ creators - the “Gods” - were disgusted by, and which they built the Tower network in response to.

The parts referring to how the Gods “lost all hope for the people”, how they “left the human world” and how “only the monsters remained to feed” are interesting. It seems very likely that this represents the Ancients’ departure into hibernation or stasis, leaving the world under the contol of their more violent creations.

Don’t forget that this was written ten thousand years after the Ancient Age ended though, so I’m sure that it’s mixed up to a certain extent… I get the impression that if the Towers’ creators were humans, the mists of time would have made them seem god-like because of the power that they had held.

4

Whenever you read a historical book, whether it be real or fantasy (if the fantasy is done right), you always have to take into consideration who wrote that book, and what they based their knowledge off of.

From that, you can extrapolate how much of the book was written as a means to brainwash the masses, how much was written to cover up less “favorable” events, how much was guessed, and how much was accurate.

5

[quote=“Abadd”]Whenever you read a historical book, whether it be real or fantasy (if the fantasy is done right), you always have to take into consideration who wrote that book, and what they based their knowledge off of.

From that, you can extrapolate how much of the book was written as a means to brainwash the masses, how much was written to cover up less “favorable” events, how much was guessed, and how much was accurate.[/quote]

Let’s see:

  • the part that brainwash the masses: The Gods created humans and gave their knowledge to them. The Gods are peaceful and will one day return to create a new world.

  • the truth about the less “favorable” events: The Gods were in fact not gods at all, but were mortals that had achieved a level of technology that made them look god-like. They were in fact the ones that destroyed the world.

  • how much was accurate: There was a war in the Ancient Age. The ruins were shut down at the end of the Ancient Age. The “Gods” would one day return.

6

I didn’t literally mean to break it down into those separate categories, persay, but rather use the knowledge of who wrote the book as a filter to interpret what is written.

If you’ve read The Da Vinci Code, you’ll know what I mean.

7

Yeah- it is funny. In the real world, everyone thinks whatever is in an old historical document is true. Why would it be?

8

The most obvious “twisitng” in PDS’ Book of Genesis that I can see is how it implies that the Gods / Ancients were in the “right”, while the humans / other people of the world were “wrong” for angering them. In the reality of the PD world it seems that things weren’t nearly so black and white, though.

What I’m really not sure of is how The Dragon Bible fits in with things, and whether it’s meant to be talking about the Heresy Dragon specifically or not. If it is, then it might be able to shed some light on the nature of the Heresy Dragon / Program, though - here’s an interesting quote from this book:

The dragon is the hand of guidence, and also the eyes of the Judge. The dragon shall fly over people to display the Gods’ power, fight to defend the good, and destroy to end all wars.

Replace “Gods” with the generally accepted “Ancients” and that becomes quite interesting. Perhaps the Heresy Dragon was designed to be the “hand of the Gods” (or rather, the most powerful enforcer of the Ancients’ will) in their absence? A creature which Sestren would release into the physical world as a kind of “ultimate stabiliser”, if it looked as if humankind was going to consume itself in war? A creature which would take the Towers’ initiative of destroying and killing in order to ultimately save and preserve life.

If that were in some way true it could certainly explain what the original point of the Heresy Dragon was anyway, which has always been unclear. The fact that it was named the “Heresy Dragon” by someone might also imply that - by trying to do what it eventually did - it had turned against its “Gods”, or rather its ancient creators.

Thoughts, anyone?

9

Lance : You don’t understand.I thought that the people of the present regarded thye ancients as gods and started calling them so myself.

The thing is if you read the entire book it doens’ match up.In the Book of Genesis you get the idea that the Humans (who were building the civilized and techonologically advanced world) were the Ancients but you also get the idea that the Gods were the ancients since they held the wisdom of things…

EDIT:Could it be that using their knowledge of genetics the Ancients created the Humans??

I mean I can’t really find metaphors to explain the first 2 parts’ contradictions

“The Gods created Humans”.

10

I didn’t think otherwise, Gehn.

Yeah, that had certainly crossed my mind. Although I should probably say that with my “metaphor” idea (of the gods “making humans what they were”), what I really meant was that the people of the current world had got their truths very mixed up. But then it’s possible that they were simply wrong about the whole “Gods creating humans” thing anyway.

The truth seems to be that the people of the world had turned the Ancient Age into a religion, so they’d probably just added a whole host of religious themes to it which had little or nothing to do with the truth - afterlives, reincarnation, gods creating humans etc…

11

I know you dind’t think otherwise.I’m just saying you thought I was thinking of it in a different (more linear) way :slight_smile:

And yes, that’s the problem.We can’t really know for sure what can be held as a metaphorical truth or a bluntly forged lie…

12

No, I mean that I didn’t think that you thought that. :slight_smile: Well, that I didn’t think what you were suggesting in your last post.

13

[quote=“Lance”]The dragon is the hand of guidence, and also the eyes of the Judge. The dragon shall fly over people to display the Gods’ power, fight to defend the good, and destroy to end all wars.

Replace “Gods” with the generally accepted “Ancients” and that becomes quite interesting. Perhaps the Heresy Dragon was designed to be the “hand of the Gods” (or rather, the most powerful enforcer of the Ancients’ will) in their absence? A creature which Sestren would release into the physical world as a kind of “ultimate stabiliser”, if it looked as if humankind was going to consume itself in war? A creature which would take the Towers’ initiative of destroying and killing in order to ultimately save and preserve life.

If that were in some way true it could certainly explain what the original point of the Heresy Dragon was anyway, which has always been unclear. The fact that it was named the “Heresy Dragon” by someone might also imply that - by trying to do what it eventually did - it had turned against its “Gods”, or rather its ancient creators.

Thoughts, anyone?[/quote]

A random thought: perhaps the Heresy Dragon was designed to destroy the source for humanity’s technological advances when they reached a certain technological level. Humanity used the Ancient technology, which made the Heresy Dragon come to the conclusion that the Towers had to be destroyed.

Yeah, I think this was indeed the case. The text was probably based of the legends and myths that told about the Ancient Age, the “Age of the Gods”. They only needed to make some adjustments to create a bible out of these stories.

14

Well they created drones so in a sense they created humans (Azel is pretty human) so in that aspect atleast we can see where the misconception of the Ancients creating actual humans came from…

15

In that case the book of Genesis would never actually talk about human people…

16

Gehn, you’re forgetting to do what I said. You have to look at the book through the eyes of the person who probably wrote it.

Whoever wrote it was probably not an Ancient, but someone who had only heard of the Ancients and what they could do. To a simple man, hearing that the Ancients could create a creature that looked almost completely human, it would be difficult to differentiate that from the ability to actually create humans.

I’m not saying that this is actually the case, but I just want to say that you shouldn’t take the book so literally.

17

I’d like to read the Empire’s or Seeker’s “bible” about the ancients. I’m sure they know more than we do.

18

Why not… Like I said, MISCONCEPTION that they were creating real humans, meaning they saw them create DRONES and they THOUGHT they created humans because they weren’t able to distinguish between drones and humans (whoever wrote the bibles)…

19

Well when they start talking about murder I’m pretty sure they are talking about humans.

Abadd:I’m not taking them literally but one thing I know : whoever wrote it had a pattern of thought.So the subject in part 1 has got to be the same in part 8…

20

Sure, the subject in 1 and 8 are the same, but that doesn’t have anything to do with the Ancients making humans.

You are assuming, though, that whoever wrote the bible had specific knowledge of what happened, and had all the facts completely straight.

You have to assume that the bible was pieced together from various stories that the writer had heard, and made the most sense out of it as possible. Therefore, it would not be hard to imagine that the writer assumed that the Ancients created humans, when in fact, they actually created Drones (just as an example).