So, SEGA was going to announce a new Shining Force game. After seeing Valkyria Chronicles and other worthy in-house titles, I was hoping they would finally return to its roots with an awesome new Strategy JRPG to rival anything Nintendo or Square can pull. And what do they go and announce? Shining Force Cross. AN ARCADE GAME. What is wrong with them? Who decided that? Why didn’t they just make it a new franchise altogether? It looks NOTHING like Shining Force, it has NOTHING to do with its gameplay, so WHY IS IT A SHINING FORCE GAME? Why SEGA? Why couldn’t it at the very least be a Valkyria Chronicles fantasy based reskin? And to top it off, the art looks worse than the medieval crap in the last Sonic game. Look at these screenshots!
That doesn’t make any sense whatsoever considering they have so many arcade franchises to revisit and so many franchises that originated on home systems yet have simple gameplay that would also work at the arcades (like Panzer Dragoon). Yet they chose a traditional RPG franchise to maim, making it bear no resembalance to the past games (even less than the PS2 games) and on top of that it’s a franchise that holds no power whatsoever in the arcade space as it has never been associated with it. It just makes no logical sense. Maybe if they made Phantasy Star Offline Arcade I could see it somewhat logical, but Shining Force?! Whoever decided that must have been stoned.
from what i hear from other gaijin working in the industry they all think the age of japan beeing the paradize of videogames is over, and it will at least take 10 years to get where they have been 10 years ago. if it ever happens that is.
japanese game developers stand in their own way most of the time. it probably has to do with classic japanese role models and the so called “jouge kankei” literally meaning “up and down relationship” that prevernts a more dynamic and democratic atmosphere.
from my experience, japanese (gamers as well as developers) are totally fascinated with nittygritty hardware stuff and or girls underpants (that’s no joke unfortunately, look at this: http://www.geishatokyo.com/jp/ar-figure/figure.html.) i’m getting more and more amazed that a game like SotC could be made in japan. and i’m amazed for what resons japanese gamers like the game (mainly because of the graphics, not the style, but the pure fact that enemies of that scale have not excisted before) my departments director actually asked “isn’t it just some kind of tech demo?” hello, a tech demo, at the very end of the PS2 lifecycle???
i’m quite disappointed in the situation right now, and actually think it more likely of europe becoming 2nd place in game development after the US outranking japan in the near future…
I can’t say I agree with that, I think Eastern developers are equal to Western. All this talk of how Japan lost the magic is overrated and I think part of it is all the console gamers that just got into Western gaming with the coming of the Xbox, which seemed to finally draw the PC-centric Western developers to the home consoles, so it’s all new experiences for them, when in reality Western development has been just as stale.
The East was behind for a while, but only in terms of technical achievements as they seemed to put PS2-style art creation over new technologies (you rarely saw their games use normal mapping or impressive shadowing for example), but companies like Konami and Capcom prove they are quickly adjusting to the situation and have games that scream production values as any high profile Western developer. Actual creative or at least extremely well done gameplay, is seen rarely both from the East and the West.
As for Europe, well, they’re not all that different to American developers. They tend to target more niche genres, like German or Eastern European developers doing old school RPGs or hardcore strategy titles for example, but in general that doesn’t make them more special. If they were to become more worldwidely succesful, you’d probably see them also do more mainstream titles, leaving their hardcore fans behind. Just like Bio-thesda.
So, yeah, I think the industry as a whole is not what it used to be 10 years ago, but thankfully we see an empowerment of the independent developer and that’s always good. They tend to be Western, but I’m sure the East has just as many talented indies that we just can’t get to, no thanks to the language barrier. See Cave Story for example.
But, I think this is a little off topic. SEGA prove they still have it when they make titles like Valkyria Chronicles (which incidentally people don’t buy) so I was baffled with this announcement. It doesn’t make any sense to turn Shining Force into an arcade title, nor is this game some very traditional Japanese game that should spark this discussion… If anything, they are taking steps away from tradition with every crappy title like this.
I don’t know why you say that , when its nothing new . We’ve had sakura Taisen turned into various Arcades games on the ST-V and Chihiro boards (that looked or played nothing like the RPG’s) we’ve had Sonic turned into a fighter on Model 3 , and various Puyo Puyo and Columns spins off on various boards inthe Arcades from SEGA.
Given its from AM#2 and after the successful Quest of D series , maybe SEGA thinks its will make some money ? , and maybe since it coming from AM#2 it be half decent ?
People like you, you mean ?
Capcom is the only Japanese developer to truly get it , the rest are still stuck inthe past , with their single platform game engine , and engines used for just one game instead of being for various games , and making games that will only appeal to the home market (well konami not too bad on this front )
You would think that SEGA would be at the top of the table , given it’s used western tech to power its Arcades games and Home hardware for years and years , its produced quite a lot of MD games ECT , that worked on the world stage , but its an worst state now , then it was when it was just going 3rd party .Now bar 1 or 2 games , I’ve very little interest in SEGA games , and bar one or 2 games SEGA next gen tech seems all over the place .
Oh hail a new Sonic game with features and extra’s that no ones wants , or asks for , because SOJ know best . Sonic and the Black Knight is a complete pants fest of the game , and Sonic Unleashed is part brilliant , part crap . How about putting the whole team to work on just one Sonic game , and we play only as Sonic, none of this splitting the teams and games . Why is it so hard, to make another Sonic Adv ? , because until Sonic is put right or just dropped , SEGA imagine is dammed for life
It makes me sick that its paying Japanese 3rd parties to produce multi platform next gen RPG’s, or paying Platinum to make its a multi platform action game , when SPJ should be paying and ordering it’s own staff to do that . Yet again SOJ just don’t get it , and its another Gen missed for SEGA Japan If SEGA Japan don’t sort it out soon, no one will care for their games, and they might has well just become just another publisher
Maybe. It still didn’t have to be Shining Force if they wanted some sort of Gauntlet meets Kingdom Hearts game. It could just be Shining. It’s not like any of us will experience it. The art, while technically accomplished, looks atrocious anyway.
It’s not a system I own, therefor I was never a potential customer. They knew the PlayStation 3 install base and they wanted to sell to them. Nobody would buy a system for 1 game. But hey, put the blame on me if that makes you feel better. I’m the reason Valkyria didn’t sell, and not the oh so super hardcore PlayStation 3 install base. Lol?
Eastern developers still make great games and Capcom, while remaining technologically up to date better than most, have certainly started slipping in regards to actual game quality. Dismissing every other company by bringing a single example as the sole decent developer is absurd, especially when we’re comparing them to Western developers who are just as stale and uninspired these days. Truly great games are rare from both sides, and simply good games are just as common between both. That was my point and I believe it stands as I find myself jaded with both sides of game development, with only the occasional inspiring title coming from both. It’s the whole industry that is stale and not Japan in particular. That is all I was saying.
What do you mean with the part I bolded anyway? Isn’t that everyone’s goal? The “home market” is all there is. What other market is there for video games, other than arcades which are a dying breed in the West anyway?
The first half, is probably due to Dreamcast-era leftover development. Dreamcast projects converted to PS2 or Xbox releases. The second half, well, if people don’t buy their good games, they can’t continue making them. Though Valkyria could have been better advertised, those sales were pathetically low. Maybe they’ll re-release it on the Xbox 360 at some point, but I wouldn’t expect it to fare much better on that platform. There’s a reason Namco ports Tales of Vesperia to the PS3, while creating a sequel for the Wii.
The American Sonic Team, Sega Studio USA, didn’t do any better. Shadow the Hedgehog was theirs, as was Sonic Heroes, Sonic Rivals 1 & 2, and even the last Nights game for the Wii. Anyway, the extra gimmicks they add are the least of Sonic’s problems. Dark Knight could have been a good game with some better level design and game structure. Having a sword didn’t really affect Sonic’s speed, unless the player sucked, while the game did focus on just Sonic with some more optional playable characters, so it was a step in the right direction. It just didn’t really improve the Secret Rings formula. The game was better than IGN’s review would have you believe, but of course it was far from stellar. Just putting this out there, it’s certainly not worth buying over a quality game.
I don’t care if they contract great developers like Platinum to make great games. They always did that, like hiring Camelot. That doesn’t affect their in-house talent. They could do both, in theory, but they clearly aren’t doing both, save for a couple of exceptions.
I think it looks quite nice , and while I agree with you on Force being in the title . Well you know , did Saga have to use Panzer Dragoon in the title as it played nothing like the previous titles ,did Taisen Columns really need Sakura Taisen in the title , when its a bloody puzzle game . Not really , but hey , its not like that stopped SEGA before .
Some might , it’s the only reason I got a Wii , was for Mario.
How long was the title in production , 3 years ?. I think its fair to say SOJ were hoping the PS3 would have sold far better in Japan , but the time the game was ready to ship
It’s not like this game was ever made with a Western audience in mind , as SRPG’s don’t sell that well over here , and it wasn’t multi platform .
Maybe SEGA will learn form its mistakes if it’s ever to make a sequel and make it multi platform
The only thing ‘abusrd’ is the way you twist , what I post to suit your needs. Its all getting rather boring , dull and so predictable.
I’m well aware that Japanese studios make great games , but in this Generation of Hardware , to make money and get best sales and most profits , it seems to me Multi Platform development is a must , multi platform , multi purpose next gen engines is a must , as is making games that can work onthe world stage . On those fronts Capcom not ‘only’ get its , its miles out in front .
But by the same token , I always though western development was brilliant in the 16bit and 32bit heyday , when most were raving about the Japanese development . What changed, I feel is the Tech , and now its call C++ and Western based tools and Tech leading the way , bit of a sea change for the Japanese used to coding to the metal on development stations, and of course the Internet is a massive deal now , and again Japan is found wanting on that score .
Gamewise , I don’t think any game come close to Ninja Gaiden II or Lost Planet onthe 360
Nothing , this site doesn’t seem to like Chrome , I didn’t meant to bold anything.
Its not that . Val is part of the problem at SEGA Japan . There’s a game made only for the Japanese market , and for a single platform, and SOJ spend all the this time and money on making a beautiful game engine , only to use it for one game (well maybe 2) and for the tech never to be shared between the teams .
Why bring Sonic Team USA in this , 1st off they don’t exist any more, and one would have liked to think after Sonic 06 and Heroes mess ups SEGA would have learnt for the feedback , at least Shadow could be seen as a separate game I guess , and at least NiGHTS on the wii , felt , sounded and played like the classic NiGHTS. Shame it wasn’t on the next gen system , where the ‘Dream’ concept could have been far better realised .
It could have been a better game for another Character , . Its not a Sonic game , and that’s the problem. Sonic Unleashed is half way there to being a full on brilliant Sonic game that all the fans want
Well for the 1st two Shining Games they were In-House , and in the Saturn and DC days , SEGA made plenty of classic In-House RPG’s as well as publishing other 3rd party games . I doubt we’ll see a multi platform action game from SEGA (well I guess there’s Sonic) much less a multi platform RPG .
To me this a kick inthe teeth to the staff inside SEGA, and like SEGA does n’t have the confidence in own staff to produce these type of games , and its cheaper and easy just to sign up 3rd party games .
Sorry, but no. You clearly acted as if Capcom is the only worthy Japanese developer left. Even if you just look at your technology complaints, Capcom is far from the only company that makes multi platform titles, while many Eastern companies collaborate with Western studios. Nintendo having Retro, Konami having Climax, etc. But anyway, your response was to me, when I was discussing the overall situation with games quality, as well as technology. The games are all that matter anyway, if they achieve that with just creating game-specific engines, more power to them, I don’t care for the means, I care for the result, and all the Western companies that all use the same middleware, don’t really achieve better results. Anyway, Eastern companies often don’t even provide information about their engines so we can’t know how extensively they’re used. Square probably used the same engine for many titles, and the same goes for Namco (all the 3D Tales games seem to be built on the same base). Capcom is not the only one. Now your personal tastes may favor Capcom due to a game or two, but that’s just personal taste.
I did the bolds, and I’m asking what you meant with that. I think there’s a language barrier here and you don’t understand what I’m saying, and on top of that don’t convey what you want to say properly, which is why you claim I twist your words, or make statements like this. It’s quite annoying but I’m not raging on you, like you do on me, with snide remarks in every post, like it’s my fault Valkyria didn’t sell.
Because you acted like SOJ is all the problem when you said they add the gimmicks because “SOJ knows best” when it was SoA that added the crappy handgun for Shadow in the first place. They both do good and bad decisions equally.
This is getting seriously predicable. Konami got a multi purpose , multi platform next gen engine ?, its biggest game is only on 1 platform , its light years behind Capcom on the internet , and as for collaboration, Capcom again is way out in front of Konami , with Dark Void , and Bionic Commando, Dead Rising II all produced by western studios .
On so many fronts Capcom is the only Japanese studio that truly gets it . Its nailed the multi platform , its nailed the multi platform , multi purpose game engine , and its nailed the internet with brilliant co-op modes in RE5 , massive multi player in LP , and Lost Planet II looks to combine the both, with multi player Co-Op and multi player head to heads, that looks heads and shoulders above what other Studios in Japan are offering . Poor old Konami can’t get Pro Evo to run right onthe internet
What that the whole industry is stale , no new original games, only sequels. That talk was very much around inthe 16 bit days … With OMG! not another platform game , not another Film licence developed by Prope , not another RPG . Please ! can we have something new …
Like I haven’t heard that before
That because SONIC Team USA answered to SEGA Japan , after all Naka in Japan was their supreme boss and CEO . Not that matters , Sonic Team USA have been no more since NiGHTS onthe Wii
Now its not my fault that Black Night sucks , with an 'crappy 'bloody big sword and is far from the Sonic game people wanted, and the least Sonic game since Heroes . Like always with SEGA Japan’s Sonic team, Sonic Team Japan thinks its knows best when it comes to Sonic .
There are currently two games coming out this year that I reasonably expect to buy and play (Dante’s Inferno on 360 and Miles Edgeworth: Perfect Prescutor on DS). Absolutely nothing else I’ve heard about remotely interests me, possibly because my life is enough of a challenge as is. I’m planning to buy Prince of Persia when I’m not skint.
In defense of Eastern Developers, the games I’m largely playing just now are all Japanese or Eastern in origin (Etrian Oddysey 2 and the Touhou series). There’s probably some mileage left in them.
Yeah, I’ve seen some weird Japanese stuff in that regard. It seems to be a cultural thing, a sort of extreme counterpart to the inbuilt traditional stance of the worklife. It’s little different to the west’s stance on breasts though; just look at various newspapers “page 3”. This ends up with silliness developing in western games too.
It’s really turned into a different series post-SF3. Camelot are no longer involved, and the new games haven’t made any attempt to extend the series consistently in both story and gameplay. The way I see it, the new Shining games are ‘the film loosely based on the book’, adapted to appeal to a mainstream audience but using the Shining Force name to attempt to market to people who have heard of the classic SF titles.
Although I did try Shining Force Neo, I for one have no interest in playing through the new Shining games. I’d much rather play through Fire Emblem, Valkyria Chronicles, etc.
IMO, the question should be ‘is this new series any good’ because it really isn’t Shining.
Yeah but I can make a safe bet you don’t just have Mario on your Wii now, even if you did buy it so you could play Mario. You wanted it for Mario, but expected to be able to buy more games in the future.
So the point is valid imo, no one really does buy a system for 1 game, it’s not exactly a smart investment.
Solo pretty much summed it there. It’s just a different game. I just don’t like how SF’s name gets dragged through the dirt in the meantime.
Yeah but I can make a safe bet you don’t just have Mario on your Wii now, even if you did buy it so you could play Mario. You wanted it for Mario, but expected to be able to buy more games in the future.[/quote]
You can be sure the only reason I bought a Jaguar , and a Wii were for just 1 game - With Jag it was for Alien Vs Predator, and the Wii it was for Mario . Of course like with any system , when you get it , you’ll try and source more software after you finished the games, that made you want to get the system , that’s only natural .
I happen to know a massive Panzer Dragoon fan, that hates MS with a passion and everything they stand for , but bought a X-Box to play Panzer and sold it on , straight after .
So it happens and its a very valid point . I know quite a lot of people that only got a X-box just down to HALO , but then fell in love with the system, how many Wii fans just bought it only for Wii Play (if its anything like the girls I know, quite a lot)
I only got a SNES after seeing F-Zero in Mean Machines , then feel in love with the system , and loved it more , than my Mega Drive . So I think there’s a lot of people , where one game , and one game only makes you want that system , how many SNES fans , just got a Snes for SF II, or MD fans just because of Sonic ???
The simple fact is , that until Camelot make a new one for SEGA, then the fans will never accept it imo , no matter how good it is to play , no matter how good it looks (I’ll be the same with Panzer to be fair) . Sometimes the fans forget that the series have been quite different ,even when Camelot were making the series , Shining In The Holy Ark , and Shinning Wisdom were very different is style and look , to the established games on the MD.
I guess the world ‘FORCE’ gets people hopes us though , and I really wish SEGA won’t use that world , until its a true Force game (SRPG Battles) . I also wish both SEGA and Camelot would grown up , stop acting like brother’s or kids that had a little fight , kiss and make up and just make a full on Shinning Game .
I also like to know why SEGA pushes ahead so much with the Shinning Games , rather than give fans a new Panzer , or even a true single player Phantasy Star game ? Is it cheaper and easier to make Shining Games, or the fact that Teams/Staff have just had a titfull for Panzer and Phantasy
And of course at first, I bought a Sega Saturn for one game: Panzer Dragoon Saga!!
I bought a Wii for one game: LOZ: Twilight Princess
and I bought a PS3 for one game: ICO 3
And sure, you eventually buy other games in the future that’s juist a given. But it does happen, because sometimes there aren’t other games of particular interest until later on in the systems life cycle, or the person just wants one game that bad. But, people do in fact buy a system for one game.
Shining the Holy Ark built on the gameplay style of Shining in the Darkness (the first Shining game, before even the original Shining Force). Shining Wisdom was an action RPG spin off, however it kept with the same story continuity as the previous Shining games. That’s really my point here - with Shining Soul and subsequent Shining games, Sega have essentially rebooted on what was a well established canon - not just in story, but in gameplay too. Sega could have evolved the existing world and gameplay of the Megadrive and Saturn Shining games rather than pretending that they didn’t exist.
That’s not to say I’m against reboots in general, but when they take the series in a completely different direction, redefining the meaning of story, I can’t help wondering why it isn’t just turned into another series/story altogether.