I was always under the impression that Sonic Software Planning and Camelot were two seperate groups, primarily because of what it says at the opening of each Shining Force 3 scenario, and that they ended up merging.
Yeah, that caused a little bit of confusion, but both “Sonic & Camelot” are the same developer.
You can read the complete history of Camelot here.
Their next console RPG should be worth keeping an eye on.
That clears things up nicely. Thanks for the link.
It really is a simple matter of perception. I mean, most people consider GT4 a Sony game, right? That’s developed externally.
All I’m saying is don’t dismiss games simply because they weren’t developed internally at Sega. That’s just fanboyish nonsense. These are games developed by top-quality developers, overseen and directed by Sega themselves.
Other than a new Panzer or a Shining turn-based strategy game, I honestly don’t know what you guys expect from Sega.
Don’t forget Skies of Arcadia 2… we fans expect no less 
Seriously, in terms of sequels anything would be nice that continues what made the old games great and yet innovated enough so that it wasn’t the same old game. A new 3D Sonic game using a new engine that fixes the problems that have been plaguing the series since Sonic Adventure would be welcomed with open arms, but games like Shadow the Hedgehog look more like a step backwards than forwards to be honest (judging from what I know about it so far).
As for new games, I see no problem with Sega releasing mainstream style games, so long as they’re good games and provide something new… Sega fans don’t want Sega to become another EA. Sega can bring life to these tried and tested genres by adding innovation to established formulas like they have in the past, but without making the titles unappealing to the mainstream crowd - just like Half-Life 2 did. It was mainstream game, but at the same time added some fresh and original. It sold millions.
If Sega stops releasing Diablo clones and starts bringing out some games that appeal to me, I’ll buy them. I’m already looking forward to Phantasy Star Universe which is a start (and that’s not just because it’s a based on an old classic Sega series, it really does look like a good game in its own right). It’s just hard to get as enthusiastic about Sega gaming as I did in the old days, and I think there’s more to that than simply getting older.
[quote=“Abadd”]It really is a simple matter of perception. I mean, most people consider GT4 a Sony game, right? That’s developed externally.
All I’m saying is don’t dismiss games simply because they weren’t developed internally at Sega. That’s just fanboyish nonsense. These are games developed by top-quality developers, overseen and directed by Sega themselves.
Other than a new Panzer or a Shining turn-based strategy game, I honestly don’t know what you guys expect from Sega.[/quote]
I better be alive before Burning Rangers 2 is released.I wanna hear that song singed both in japanese and engrish before I die.And they can bring da nigga back too.
I would like to know what’s in your head tho.What should we be expecting?In wha was is our fandom keeping us from seeing what we should be seeing?
Good question… I’d like to know the answer to that as well (assuming Abadd thinks that our fandom is what’s preventing us from seeing something, that may not be exactly what’s running through his mind…).
[quote=“Abadd”]It really is a simple matter of perception. I mean, most people consider GT4 a Sony game, right? That’s developed externally.
All I’m saying is don’t dismiss games simply because they weren’t developed internally at Sega. That’s just fanboyish nonsense. These are games developed by top-quality developers, overseen and directed by Sega themselves.
Other than a new Panzer or a Shining turn-based strategy game, I honestly don’t know what you guys expect from Sega.[/quote]
But it must be In-House. SONY alwayed owned Team Yamauchi/Polyphony Digital. Ever since they were 1st set up to work on Moto Toon GP games for the PS.
As for the final part. I’ve given up most hope for a SAGA II, ORTA II or Shenmue III.
But would like SEGA to make a some new racers (nobody makes a better racer than SEGA).
Would like to see SEGA make a new game with the vision of JSR or REZ. Capcom Clover Studio is taking some of SEGA thunder some what with their stunning looking games.
Plus isn?t about time SEGA updated Burning Rangers, Skies, , Hundred Swords, Gun Vaalkyire as those games had such potential, that really was never fulliy seen
Oh a new Arcade version of Power Drift II running in the CyberCraft cab would be nice. Esspeacilly after the brilliant job AM#2 did with Out Run II.
A 16 player LIVE version of Powerdfit II would rock as would a new Multi player Daytona USA (Yes I know SEGA can’t use the Daytona name now)
[quote=“Geoffrey Duke”]
Goonboy: I think Sega may publish Darkwatch after all. We shall see. I’m not a fan of first person shooters but I am a fan of supernatural themes. In any case, let’s hope the Xbox version takes advantage of the extra horespower under the console’s hood.[/quote]
Yes I know. Sega apparently will publish the game in June. I was hoping
DARKWATCH would join the Sega family as it has a cool history of supernatural theme titles like GUNGRAVE,ALTERED BEAST,HOUSE OF THE DEAD and DARKWATCH’S obvious inspiration CHAKAN THE FOREVER MAN.
[quote=“Team Andromeda”]
No I don’t consider Metropolis Street Racer a SEGA game at all, any more than I consider the likes of Red Dog a true SEGA or any of the so-called 1.5 SEGA DC games.
Sonic R was a bit diff, all the tracks and characters were degined by the Sonic Team,
And there was some justification as Sonic Team were hard at work on Burning Rangers and prep work for Soniv Adv so they were busy at the time.
But in saying that most people consider the Shinning Force series a true SEGA game, when most of the development was done at Camelot.
But I come back to the point I don?t buy a SEGA, Capcom, NCL game for them to be developed by a 3rd party.
That what was for me so great about the Saturn was that SEGA at last started to get it?s In-House Arcade teams to handle the conversion their selfs
I just like to know what those teams in SEGA Japan are up too, they?ve been quite for a while, and for me they make the best SEGA games[/quote]
Well technically they’re not third party games they’re second party. Sega obviously was the first party and anyone who is making a game for them(usually for their systems because sega inhouse divisions were making arcade games as well as home conversions/home system originals)was filling the gap. Most of these games may not have even exisited without sega backing them and i consider Treasure’s and camelot’s efforts as much as a Sega game than the inhouse ones for the main point that it is part of the home developmental history of Sega. Apart from the arcade games sega’s home system games were not only important but pushed the boundaries in home system development from a major company even if it was the second party developers who was making them for Sega at the time.
[quote=“Abadd”]
Other than a new Panzer or a Shining turn-based strategy game, I honestly don’t know what you guys expect from Sega.[/quote]
I expect to see at least this year.
CARBONDALE project from Hitmaker
HOTD survival horror game that was supposed to be made
ETERNAL ARCADIA 2 which should be revealed at either E3 or TGS or even inbetween those shows
SHENMUE 3:Should be either this year or next year.
NOSFERAN:Where the hell is it?
TRIGUN:Where the hell is it?
John Woo games: Where are they?
BLEACH for NGC
And some more Osuma Tezuka games please!
I know for sure that these games exist in one way or another yet they haven’t been revealed(Or even cancelled) one way i like to see some brand new titles from Sega of japan this year.
Goonboy: Let’s just say that you’re not going to like this E3, then. At all.
What did happen to CARBONDALE and Trigun ???.
I’ve been looking forward to Carbondale for ages after reading it was a massive project for SEGA Japan and that the the Team were flying out to Illinois ect.
Also would love to know what happend to the ClockworkNight RPG Overworks said they were working on. But much like the other games haven’y heard nothing for oevr 2 years.
Are SEGA Japan going to show off any games at E3 that they made In-House ?
Heh, I don’t think any of us are going to like E3 ever again, considering the Japanese have officially announced that TGS will be the show where they will unveil all the new Japanese games, while E3 is only for the Westernization rubbish.
It’s sad, yes…but E3 was over-hyped drivel anyway.
I was afraid of this. It’s obvious that Sega is seperating their markets now where each division is going to concentrate on their terrotories and not have an overall release from Sega Japan like they use to. E3 has become the eptiome due to the fact most of the titles are of Sega western made games even though it’s not the actual Sega that made them. But there must be some Sega Japan stuff to be unveilved.yuji Naka is suppose to show something new.
But where have they announced that they are doing TGS for the japanese games,Kadamose? gimme a link?
TA: I for one was excited because of the ammount of Sega games being unveiled this year. but I must admit Sega doesn’t really suprise people at E3 anymore compard to the CES (Which was much better than E3) Sega usually leak new images and information to their games on the internet or give magazine exclusives outside of these events and then show the games at the event which by then everyone knows what the new games are.
Look what happened to CONDENMED and FULL AUTO. None of these new games were unveiled at E3 they were shown in advance.
I expect CARBONDALE to be shown this year anyways.
Yes, Kadamose… the entirety of the Japanese population called a meeting, and decided that henceforth, all of their announcements as a culture would be made at TGS.
…
…
…
o_O
In all seriousness, though. This is the first time that PSU is being shown in playable form. This is the first time Shadow is being shown in playable form. Are these not “firsts” at E3? And come on… you say E3 is nothing but “over hyped drivel” because of less Japanese content? Why is it simply because a game is made in the west that it’s rubbish? Most of the top titles in the last generation have come out of the US and Europe, not Japan. Japanese games are quickly turning into one-trick ponies, due to the over-reliance of Japanese developers on their arcade heritage. Western developed games offer richer, more involving experiences of late.
There’s plenty of SOJ content: Shadow, PSU, Shining Force Neo, Sonic Rush, etc. There’s even more being shown in the theater…
[quote=“Goonboy Panzer”]Look what happened to CONDENMED and FULL AUTO. None of these new games were unveiled at E3 they were shown in advance.
I expect CARBONDALE to be shown this year anyways.[/quote]
I got news for you… EVERYONE shows their games in advance (with the exception of a few key titles that people keep hidden until the last minute). Otherwise, the media simply doesn’t have enough time anymore to cover everything fairly at the show. There’s just too much content to cover in the span of 3 days.
And, no. There is no “Carbondale” being shown.
I have a question for you all. I’ve seen most of you guys do nothing but complain about everything that SOJ has been doing in the last couple of years, yet you still complain when SOJ has “less” content than it usually shows at E3. Why is that? Not that I’m saying to give up on the teams, but I mean, Sega is obviously trying to deliver better content than it has in the last couple of years, but here, everyone simply writes it off as “not true Sega content.” Did anyone care that Star Wars: KOTOR wasn’t developed at Lucasarts? No. Since Lucasarts hadn’t created a good title internally in so long, they went out and got someone who could realize their vision. And look what we ended up with.
Same thing with Sega. Don’t knock the titles until you actually play/see them. Full Auto feels just as much like a Sega racing game as Crazy Taxi or Daytona. Passing judgment on games on such pointless criteria goes beyond fanboyism. I’ve seen you guys knock FF fanboys for all sorts of reasons… yet you believe this is any different?
Sorry double post
[quote]I have a question for you all. I’ve seen most of you guys do nothing but complain about everything that SOJ has been doing in the last couple of years, yet you still complain when SOJ has “less” content than it usually shows at E3. Why is that? Not that I’m saying to give up on the teams, but I mean, Sega is obviously trying to deliver better content than it has in the last couple of years, but here, everyone simply writes it off as “not true Sega content.” Did anyone care that Star Wars: KOTOR wasn’t developed at Lucasarts? No. Since Lucasarts hadn’t created a good title internally in so long, they went out and got someone who could realize their vision. And look what we ended up with.
Same thing with Sega. Don’t knock the titles until you actually play/see them. Full Auto feels just as much like a Sega racing game as Crazy Taxi or Daytona. Passing judgment on games on such pointless criteria goes beyond fanboyism. I’ve seen you guys knock FF fanboys for all sorts of reasons… yet you believe this is any different?[/quote]
I guess it?s because some of us miss the days when SEGA was wowing E3 with the likes of JSRF, GV, ORTA to name but a few.
What happened to days when SEGA Japan was stunning everybody with its artistic vision and creativity freedom with games like JSR, REZ, Space Channel 5 and even brilliant original games like Monkeyball ???.
Now SEGA stuff is as dull and as un-inspiring as EA lineup.
In a area where SEGA were once kings (cell Shading) Capcom Clover Studio is now leading the way with it?s VJ series, and the stunning looking Okami.
Okami looks like a hand painting oil painting in realtime, it looks stunning and so original.
It?s getting loads of praise, and in the way people used to admire SEGA for taking creative risks, they are now doing the same for Capcom.(while people have a good laugh at SEGA dull as dish water line up)
What does SEGA offer in return Shadow with a Gun WOW!.
Hell Capcom even listen to cries to update some of their classic with a new Final Fight Game, while the call for a new Street Of Rage game fall on deaf ears yet again
And what do we do, to the Studio that was in many ways our answers to Clover Studios we get rid of it and merger into Sonic Team.
So as a results we lose the creative genius that was Tetsyua Mizuguchi , some of the amazing Art staff from REZ, and the technical brilliance of Riyuchi Hattori .(I even use to have the exact same hair style as him, before I grew it long ,sad I know).
They?ve gone on the better things and getting rave reviews with their Q-Entertainment group
These days SEGA games don?t even look good.
Spike Out looks a graphical mess and like some 1990 3DFX game (thankfully the gameplay saves it). Not what you expect for a 3rd generation exclusive X-Box game
Blood Will Tell, and Project Alerted Beast (Great laugh though) are outclass by most of Capcom and From Software PS2 efforts.
What happened to the days when most of SEGA Saturn DC, and its early CUBE, X-Box efforts all looked amazing. They?re long gone.
SEGA can?t even get the online side of things right.
SEGA GT, Spike Out all have problems on LIVE (the best online service there is).
Monball Deluxe would have made the perfect LIVE game, but no SEGA Japan can?t even get that right. The late great Isao Okawa (a man that believed so much in Online gamming) must be turning in his grave
The one game that as that SEGA feel and artistic vision to it (Out Run II SP) they can?t be assed to port.
What the ORTA/JSRF Team up too ??? That Team along with AM#2 are the few stars SEGA as left
Any of ORTA/JSRF Team still left at the SEGA Group 9Or have ther gone to Clover ;)?.
Because one of reasons I think some people might have joined SEGA, is because they used to let their Team have massive amounts of creative freedom and do what they what Which resulted in games like Sonic, JSR, REZ.
Those days are long gone, as with the games SEGA creative vision and style is slowly dieing.
Some people in the Group wanted SEGA to be more like EA. And by God does it look like that wish is coming true.
Looks like When Okawa sadly passed away so did the SEGA group.
I wonder if it was a guy in a suit who dreamed up Shadow The Hedgehog? 
I can almost accept Panzer Dragoon and Skies of Arcadia etc dying. What I cannot condone is some Square-loving half-wit claiming that home consoles are no place for Strategy/RPGs when they are still a thriving genre in Japan.
I think most of the recent screw ups have been on Sega of Japan’s side. I just wish more people at Sega would see games less in terms of how much money they can bring home and more in terms of overall quality.
Sega needs a few more visionaries with large bank accounts. Like it or not, Sega will continue to bridge the gap between hardcore and mainstream tastes; Sega simply has no other choice. However, I have no doubt that Sega will continue to set up new franchises while refining old ones like it has always done.
I don’t count SHADOW THE HEDGEHOG because it’s being made by Sega USA and not Sonic Team of Japan. NEO isn’t a brand new game either. I want to see brand new content from Japan not games already released and about to make their western debut. Officially though there is stil more western made sega games being shown than Japanese ones. That’s my point.
Another thing, I said CARBONDALE i expect to be shown this year not at E3 as you already made it clear in a previous post that it won’t be shown and that’s if i choose to believe that you know what’s actually going TO be shown Sega wise at E3.
I almost wish Abadd you were a member of that SFC as there are several sega bashers talking smack about sega and any legitimate criticisms about the game becoming something that it isn’t these same people flame you for living in the past.
I’ve got news for ya. Sega USA is basically transplanted Sonic Team Japan people. What difference does it make where they are physically?
And Geoffrey, Sega has never truly been mainstream. Some of the arcades and such were mainstream back in the 80’s but only as “mainstream” as arcades ever got. The only exception is Sonic. Ask any non-gamer about Sega, and chances are, Sonic is the only game they know.
And Sega does understand it’s about the quality. The individual creators try to make what they think are good games. But, the fact of the matter is that the Japanese gaming industry is headed in a completely different direction than the tastes of western gamers.
And TA, as for games like GV, JSRF, etc… how far did that get Sega? Nobody cared. All those games mentioned sold poorly. How do you justify that sort of business plan? How do you keep your employees employed if you’re doing nothing but losing money? At that point, it’s not about “making money,” as people like to say. It’s about keeping the company alive and keeping your employees fed.
And how can you say that Sega’s lineup is “dull” when you haven’t even seen/played the games? Full Auto is one of the best action/racing games I’ve ever seen. Condemned looks to bring all new elements to the horror genre in ways never done before. People here praise Silent Hill… so why is Condemned not worthy of at least consideration before being relegated to second rate status?
Cel shading? Other than Zelda and VJ, no cel shaded game has sold well. Other than the super hardcore, nobody cares about cel shaded games. What use is it to pursue that avenue when Sega innovated it, put out quality games, and nobody bought them?
Shadow is what a huge portion of Sonic fans wanted. They wanted guns and to blow stuff up. Sonic Team USA is giving them what they want. That is exactly in line with what you’re asking for, in principle. It just so happens that those features aren’t in line with your specific tastes.
As for Mizuguchi-san, I’ve stated my piece on him before.
And you said it yourself: games like Spike Out, Blood Will Tell, Sega GT, etc simply don’t stack up (although, I would have to disagree with your comparison to From’s PS2 games…). That’s the exact reason why Sega is turning to other sources to get the great games. The SOJ studios need time to recalibrate and catch up. In the mean time, there’s a ton of content out there, simply waiting to be made. There’s a lot of projects that are brimming with creativity and vision, and Sega wants to be the one to help bring those projects to fruition. Why bring another half-assed game to America, when there’s plenty of AAA content right here?
As for allowing developers to have “creative vision,” it has stayed exactly the same. It’s just that, like I mentioned before, the direction that many Japanese studios are headed in is simply too different from what western gamers expect.
Sega is not becoming EA. Sega is simply broadening its lineup with games from the west to bolster the games coming from Japan. It’s something every company must do to survive in this industry. Tell me this: would you rather have Sega start working on western and Japanese content simultaneously? Or would you rather just have Sega collapse?
Of course, I’m simply playing devil’s advocate here, but I’m just trying to show you that you simply need to take a step back and relax. All the Sega teams are still there. They’re all working on content. It’s just that now, moving forward, Sega will also have content coming from external and internal development teams in the west. It’s as simple as that.
[quote=“Abadd”]Why bring another half-assed game to America, when there’s plenty of AAA content right here?
[/quote]
That’s just it…AAA content is NOT good enough anymore. We want S-Rank content…and we want games that have the same artistic style and creativity as Panzer Dragoon Saga. Sure, it may be true that PDS was a massive failure in marketing/money making terms…but it wasn’t because the game had flaws and nobody wanted to buy it/play it; on the contrary, the reason why it failed is because nobody even knew that the game existed in the first place. This is what, ultimately, killed Sega; unfortunately, Sega didn’t find out the reason why it was unsuccessful on all fronts, and it still has this problem to this very day. It continues to shift and merge it’s internal and external developing teams, thinking that the content is the reason why they have failed in the past. But the simple truth is, the ONLY reason Sega failed is because of their lousy marketing department; there was absolutely NOTHING wrong with their games, as their previous works (Shining Force, Phantasy Star, PDS) were WAY ahead of their time and light years of the competition)…and it saddens me that Sega desires to no longer be the black sheep of the family andwishes to become as dull/boring/stupid as everyone else. Sure, they may become successful and make lots of money…but at the sacrifice of what made Sega special in the first place…the artisitic creativity/content.
Probably the saddest thing about all of this, is that there is no videogame company, other than Sega, out there who can create a game of the same (or greater) caliber of Panzer Dragoon Saga…and this proves just how special and great Sega USED TO BE.