I am a veteran Panzer Dragoon fan and I recently decided to crack open Zwei and take it for another run. To my surprise it’s just as fun as it ever was! I am now determined to give the whole serious another run-through and I am very excited to do so. One disappointment that I seem to remember from my past excursions into the Panzer Dragoon universe was the unfortunate effect finishing the games left on me (especially Saga). That unfortunate effect being wanting more!
My question is, do you think Panzer Dragoon Saga should have been more fleshed out, or do you think it’s perfect just the way it is?
I think that it should have been more fleshed out. Perhaps I should die for being a fan of the Final Fantasy series (it seems to take a lot of flak around here) but I LOVE the plethora of towns in each of those games. Each with such a diverse culture, artistic direction, and general uniqueness. I also think that Saga dungeons tend to be somewhat repetitive. Given the incredibly rich story-line and amazing graphics (for the time), I can see why people can look past those faults, as I have done many times. But I want to know your opinion.
As a side note, can anyone direct me to some sort of guide for completing 100% of Saga? I’ve come close, but have never quite attained the coveted 100%! I just wanna do it right this time around. Thanks!
A few more towns and expansion on the culture of the world would have been nice, but overall I’m pretty content with the finished product.
I personally feel that it is better for a game to leave you wanting more, rather than to stretch out a game. Many other RPGs have a lot of filler in them, but this wasn’t the case with PDS, and as a result it was one of the few games which I found very hard to put down.
Have you tried GameFAQs.com ? There’s also some hidden things in the game mentioned in the Secrets section of this site.
Nothing wrong with being a Final Fantasy fan mate. They are fantastic games.
Does PDS even have a traditional ‘dungeon’? Underground Ruins of Uru maybe but they’re hardly a crucial thing to the game. Final Fantay X doesn’t really have dungeons.
PDS’ ending gives the game an extra push into the legendary status it has. The ending leaves questions in the players mind and I personally love those kind of endings. I have never thought PDS was incomplete in any way.
Thats’ true. Perhaps “incomplete” is the wrong word. I really just wish there was more! Although there hasn’t been a lot of talk about the series from the industry since the release of Panzer Dragoon Orta, I still often dream of some sort of remake or sequel. I’d love to see what they could do with a Panzer Dragoon game on the DS on even the Wii. I personally think a rail shooter would be perfect on those systems provided the right control scheme.
Thanks Solo Wing, I almost forgot GameFAQs existed! I’ll definitely look them up and your Secrets section.
As for traditional dungeons, I’m thinking of when you first take control of the dragon in that valley (I’m not sure what it’s called), Uru, and then the tower. But you’re right, there’s not much to complain about, I just feel PDS barely missed perfection, by gaming standards, because of these small imperfections.
PDS is complete. Granted, there were some things that weren’t implemented properly, such as the experience system and the world map showing the path of the empire and the imperial fleet. Even though the game was insanely easy, and did have some glitches and unimplemented features, it did not detract from the overall experience. With that in mind, I dare you to name another game that will capture your heart and your imagination like PDS did - I guarantee you won’t find one. The story is so powerful, and is the main reason why the game has reached legendary status.
I think the real reason why PDS has not been copied by other game engines is because it is so perfect - and creating anything ‘new’ would be very close to borderline plagiarism.
One thing now is I think it is easy to overlook how ground greaking it was in 1998- it was one of the first 3-D Japanese RPGs (not counting all the tunnel crawlers).
At the time, all of Square’s backgrounds were either 2-D renders or fixed camera- heck until their latest they have all been fixed camera.
And by 3-D, it really is 3-D- the dragon can go up and down, left and right, and in and out of the screen. Other games may have had some modes that had 3-D elements like this but it was pretty new to this style of game. And it trickled into the combat with the way you could get around a boss, etc. The Ps1 gen Square RPGs games like FF and Chrono Cross (a favorite of mine) you couldn’t really move around a enemy for tactical placement.
I really liked how desolate and consistant the world was- just a couple of towns- and there wasn’t like a rich town, ice town, desert town, tech town, etc- it all felt like the same world. They also never pretended to be the “whole” world, just a corner, so you never really got a clear picture what was beyond borders.
It is also hard for me to not look back at the problems the dev team must have had even finishing it- Sega’s Saturn business was falling apart, it is a Sega simply loving their fans that even allowed it to be translated. I can’t believe it is so innovative and fresh ain light of everything falling apart around them.
That all said, it certainly left all of us with wanting more … I always had dreams SMilebit would get to use the Skies of Arcadia tools to make a a new RPG …
I agree, that’s a great rundown of why Saga is so special lagi. And an especially good point about the towns, so many RPG’s really are connect the dots affairs, all having too many of the same dots. Azel is just a slice of a compelling, and believably random world.
And Chum_Bum, I’ve found myself repeating this a lot lately, but I don’t have any problem with anyone being a fan of Final Fantasy. However I always find direct comparisons to PDS very distasteful, if FF is one’s yardstick by which to measure other games, then PDS must be found lacking. PDS succeeds by very different, and arguably very exclusive criteria.
More RPGs should be as ethereal and awe-inspiring as Saga. It’s about as perfect a game as you could possibly find. It’s awesome out the door simply for not trying to be like other RPGs, 99% of which are all by-the-numbers. But Saga just doesn’t stop there. Just don’t tell my sister that. She’s convinced that FF VII is the best game of all time. ^^
[quote=“Heretic Agnostic”]I agree, that’s a great rundown of why Saga is so special lagi. And an especially good point about the towns, so many RPG’s really are connect the dots affairs, all having too many of the same dots. Azel is just a slice of a compelling, and believably random world.
And Chum_Bum, I’ve found myself repeating this a lot lately, but I don’t have any problem with anyone being a fan of Final Fantasy. However I always find direct comparisons to PDS very distasteful, if FF is one’s yardstick by which to measure other games, then PDS must be found lacking. PDS succeeds by very different, and arguably very exclusive criteria.[/quote]
FF is a yardstick? I always compare everything to PDS. XD
As far as console RPG’s go, yeah FF seems to be the most common yardstick. As in lowest common denominator. Though the series probably had more in common with PDS before FF7. Common is just such an appropriate word when discussing Final Fantasy…
I worked hard on this guide and since your checking out the ones on gamefaqs, This version is better then the text based one. I guaranty you if you follow this guide all the way through you will get 100 %
this forum doesn’t seem to have problems with FF fans at all. But when it comes to comparing PDS and FF, theres going to be one(and I’m honest).
This place is filled with haters. I compare FF and PDS once and well, someone called me a retard,a punk, a PM saying that my name should be “slapped in the face” and I made some enemies(but I’m not telling who it is). In my words, don’t talk about FF series and PD series at the same time. Otherwise you will be “losing relevance” like me.
Other than that, Saga is complete. If you play Orta, there is an incomplete answer of what really happened, but it lead us into even more questions.
Why not compare FF to PDS? They’re both RPGs with the same gameplay elements. PDS kinda gets everything right though. The random battles are a pleasure to do while in FF X they get so fucking annoying and rediculously unfair. One very ugly plant thing called Malboro has an attack called ‘bad breath’ that causes all status ailments known to man. The characters are out of my control and it just wipes out everyone with no way of defending yourself, fucking stupid. There’s always a big urgency to level up in FF X while in PDS leveling up was in a way optional. The berserk attacks weren’t really essential (apart from shield) and you can beat Sestren easily without any concious effort to level up. What makes FFX leveling up more difficult is how even though I am very far into the game a lot of the monsters I defeat give barely any exp which really pisses me off.
There I compared FFX to PDS so fucking sue me.
Grow up and stop flaming people for comparing PDS to FF.
I really like the Square RPGs, but games like FF and Panzer are just very different to me and the comparing them doesn’t do either justice.
Like Prince of Persia and God of War- yes they are both action adventure games that use 3-D models, but really they are very different. Neither one is simply better, there are just notes of each that will appeal more or less to different people at different times.
I think for me, at the time, PDS was such a new breath of fresh air and so different thna other games in multiple ways that it really holds an unsually high respect for me.
If you were to break down the game into exact bulletpoint quanity of features compared to most RPGs it is going to come up short, but it is really apples to oranges.
I’ve often thought the evolution for the Panzer Series would have been action-adventure - action like the PD 1, 2 + Orta, but adventure like PDS, rather than moving towards a more pure RPG like classic FF.
Then again, many RPGs have been moving this way as well, as FF12 is more action than previous ones, and western RPGs like from Bioware tend to be heading in this direction as well.
[quote=“Light Wing”]I’m not sueing you or flaming people for comparing PDS and FF. I’m just telling what happen to me when I DID compared both of the games.
You should be happy that FF12 doesn’t have any random battles. FF10 have something called “Sphere Grid System” like any FF games skill system.
I have my own reasons to like FF series the most and there’s no way someone can deny it, not even PDS itself.
God, do I have to leave this place? Because one thing I don’t like is a lack of respect and that’s the truth.[/quote]
No I wasn’t saying that you were the one flaming people for comparing FF to PDS.
FF12 doesn’t have random battles but I bet it’s like that stupid X-2 battle system were it cant decide if it’s turn based or not. What Saga truly nailed was the battle system which isn’t exactly turn based, but when you open the menu you are safe from attacks where in X-2 they’re kicking the shit out of you while your trying to find an attack that might do some real damage. For a complex game like FF the half turn based half active battle is really difficult to work where in Saga it was bang on perfect and very easy to use.
The sphere grid was good and enabled characters to learn every single move there are some cases where getting a ‘Sphere Level’ is pointless as you can only move to the next empty node.
I wasn’t disrespecting you, but I believe you have to earn respect.
[quote=“Jimkemon”]Why not compare FF to PDS? They’re both RPGs with the same gameplay elements. PDS kinda gets everything right though. The random battles are a pleasure to do while in FF X they get so fucking annoying and rediculously unfair. One very ugly plant thing called Malboro has an attack called ‘bad breath’ that causes all status ailments known to man. The characters are out of my control and it just wipes out everyone with no way of defending yourself, fucking stupid. There’s always a big urgency to level up in FF X while in PDS leveling up was in a way optional. The berserk attacks weren’t really essential (apart from shield) and you can beat Sestren easily without any concious effort to level up. What makes FFX leveling up more difficult is how even though I am very far into the game a lot of the monsters I defeat give barely any exp which really pisses me off.
There I compared FFX to PDS so fucking sue me.
Grow up and stop flaming people for comparing PDS to FF.[/quote]
Same gameplay elements. Different graphical look and narrative execution. Saga concentrates more on characters and story and less on level grinding. IMO, the active time bar system is done best in Saga too as you don’t have to wait around while it fills up.
My heroes!