Rise of Humanity

Hello I’m new to the Panzer world and only played Orta the the first game but have been looking around on the boards and think I might have a slight understanding.

From what I’ve read humanities own nature and lack of knowledge of the past keep them in this world where they are on the brink of extinction which in turn keeps them from destroying themselves which was the grand effort of the ancients, to keep humanity alive.

I guess I can understand this and why humanity is in it’s current state, but seems to me that humanity will eventually rise back to power. reason being the Middle Ages, the two seem very much a like:

Panzer Dragoon:
Humans are on the brink of extinction after mysteriously falling from power.

Middle Ages:
Humans are in a time of war and go to feudal lords for protection after the Western Roman Empire falls.

Panzer Dragoon:
The Will of the Ancients keeps humans in their endangered state.

Middle Ages:
Those who are in power discourage advancements in technology to maintain their power.

Basically my theory is that eventually because of the pattern of history Humans will rise back to power regardless of the Ancients.

What does everyone else think?

brief summary of what’s up:

it is almost unanimously accepted that the ancients were human

there are enormous ancient creations called ‘towers’ which serve more to control the environment rather than keep humans specifically alive. they do such things as control the weather and even create bio-engineered creatures to keep certain populations in check (such as humans). in the opening movie to the first panzer dragoon you can see a couple airships hovering around one of these towers.

there are other creations called drones which are like the bio-engineered creatures, except they look like humans. they usually have a function that pertains to the activities of certain ancient ruins and sometimes even the towers.

the empire is the most dominant population of humans, they excavate ancient ruins and reactivate the weapons that they find. at first they used these weapons to defend themselves from the bio-engineered creatures but then as part of human nature, they became ambitious. they used their weapons to attack other populations of humans and claim their land and resources. there were a few other factions that also had the idea to use the ancient weapons, but they were all destroyed or annexed by the superior empire.

the seekers are a nomadic group of people that will use ancient technology, but only to destroy ancient technology. they want to destroy all of it. they are enemies of the empire because they believe that the empire is unearthing the same things that nearly destroyed the world 10,000 years ago.

in the first three panzer dragoons you were trying to destroy the towers, this would give humans a chance to live in freedom rather than having their world be controlled by their long-dead ancestors.

i’m sure the others will have more general information to add :slight_smile:

as for your theory… i agree but for different reasons. the empire has advanced a great deal in the series despite being brought to its knees time and time again. before they were able to harness the power of a basic ancient technology called “float engines”. they dug up these float engines and attached primitive ballistic weapons to them. later on they discovered how to use the incredibly destructive ancient weapon technology as well has how to create float engines of their own rather than having to use the ones they found. they continued to research all of the ancient munitions and experiment with creating their own. in panzer dragoon orta we see that they have even developed anti-laser shielding (an incredibly rare feature even for the ancients). they also have created a near equivalent to the dragon and while the dragonmares are still trumped by true dragons, they can be mass produced and nothing short of a dragon really stands a chance against them. now we don’t know if anymore dragonmares will be able to be produced but just the fact that the empire can create things that are almost as powerful as the strongest ancient weapons shows just how far thy’ve advanced. in one document in PDO’s encyclopedia it said that the empire controls most of the continent now and i’m think that in a future PD game, they may control even more…

sorry for the long post, you’ll notice some of us here start writing out an idea, get carried away, forget what the original topic was about, keep typing, finally realize how much they typed, and still hit ‘submit’ anyway. :slight_smile:

welcome to twota

Megatherium you could just link him to this site instead for a history overview of all the games:

Megatherium is pretty much right in his last paragraph, however we have nothing indicating that the Empire is able to manufacture float engines I’m afraid… I had only written a tiny theory saying that PERHAPS the Craddle could create float engines as well, I won’t go into it here though. It was just a few lines of thought really… And it didn’t provide any facts, just assumptions…
Also, I don’t think they can manufacture more dragonmares, Abadd was NEEDED to awaken them, and, well, he’s kinda dead now… And a nit pick: The dragonmares were hardly “almost as powerful as ancient creations”, remember how many of them Lagi took down at the same time? I seriously doubt he could take down 5 or so Atolm dragons as well for example :wink:

it was like 5am here, i was full of tacos, i wasn’t thinking straight, forgive me!

no, this was unforgiveable, i must commit seppuku.

you sure about the float engines? i thought it said something about them being able to make their own in PDO… which resulted in smaller crafts. don’t count on me though, i thought i was a year younger than i actually am for like 3 months…

EDIT- i meant the dragonmares were supposed to be the empire’s answer to dragons. and yes lagi was able to drop the newborn mares in 2 hits from heavywing lvl 5, but i think he designed himself to do such (shamelessly promoting my theory- coming soon). but the dragonmares, despite how tought they were in game were supposed to be quite powerful in the storyline.

awsome theroy very convincing, but who knows what smile bit and sega based the storyline from.

aswome theroy man

Welcome Cygnus :slight_smile:

Yes I think you are right.Orta beens “birth” in Panzerense and the game is already reflecting the world’s self-reconstruction…

[quote=“GehnTheBerserker”]Welcome Cygnus :slight_smile:

Yes I think you are right.Orta beens “birth” in Panzerense and the game is already reflecting the world’s self-reconstruction…[/quote]

Doesn’t it mean ‘Day’ or ‘Dawn’?
anyways, nice theory.

Thanks, I had just been looking around and noticed how people always say the nature of humans cause them to repeat their past and keep them where they are but if this is true then the Dark Ages would probably repeat themselves.

I thought it would be cool if something like this happens in this untangible sequal, such as another Empire comes from an unknown continent(I’m guessing the world isn’t fully explored) and this Empire would be a benevolent one(maybe even a Democracy or Republic). Eventually either because of expansion or or fear of an equally powerful empire the one we know and love goes to war with this new Empire. Eventually the good one starts to lose and out of the dust comes a grown up Orta on a regrown Lagi to save the day. Throw in some artifacts, emotional events, HUGE battles(reason for making the plot around a war between two equally powerful Empires), and I would think that’s something. I could be wrong but I remember some people talking about how the narration has to change from the towers.


[quote=“GehnTheBerserker”]Welcome Cygnus :slight_smile:

Yes I think you are right.Orta beens “birth” in Panzerense and the game is already reflecting the world’s self-reconstruction…[/quote]

Doesn’t it mean ‘Day’ or ‘Dawn’?
anyways, nice theory.[/quote]

Yeah it’s more like dawn but for what I meant it serves it’s purpose…

Welcome to the forum, Cygnus. That idea for a sequel where the Empire comes to be at war with another empire actually sounds really promising, and it’d be interesting to see another (completely different) human civilisation in a future game. And yes, the greater PD world is very much unexplored; the Empire only controls one continent, and the games have all been set over roughly a quarter of its land mass.

Your Middle Ages theory seems like a fairly OK analogy too, although instead of being stuck with utterly simply technology the Empire had “peaked out” at a kind of post-industrial revolution stage, with access to many of the Ancients’ technologies but completely stumped by others. But I do agree that the Ancients are “discouraging” the Empire from developing new technologies, at least in some indirect way. It seems that everything the Empire builts is a modified and inferior Ancient Age creation; they don’t seem to be interested in making genuinely new or different breakthroughs of their own.

As for the meaning of “Orta”, I seem to remember the closest thing we’ve been given (to a literal translation of the panzerese) is “new beginning”.

Welcome Cygnus.

[quote=“Al3xand3r”]Megatherium you could just link him to this site instead for a history overview of all the games:

Indeed, the site exists because I wanted to help people that only played PD Orta understand the story. If you don’t mind spoilers, you should definitely read through the History section Lance made.

If I remember correctly, in German the word “Orta” also refers to the tip of a sword.

At the end of Episode 8 I noticed that Abbad actually said something about how he had awaked early and the world is nothing but filth and destruction.

no idea what that means unless abbad found that the world was repeating it’s self (do to the fact that he has possibly been alive since the fall of the antcent age and remembered how the fall of the ancients happend)and he became “inpure” (the abillity for a drone to think self awaringly) and thought he could stop it (you know the feeling that comes when you think your going to be a hero, it does stuff to the head and that mixed with war really makes problems) so what i’m saying is abadd became mentily ill.

thanks for the idea Cygnus.

In my opinion, Abadd meant that he should have been activated after the Towers had completed the regeneration of the planet. However, he was awakened prematurely and found a world where humans are foolishly using the Ancient technology to destroy each other. This was far from the utopian world the Ancients wanted to create.

My thoughts exactly.I thought you were one of the guys who interpretated that in a different fashion Donut… :slight_smile:

I don’t think I ever had a different opinion about this. What makes you think that Ghen?

We had a discussion about Abadd’s words something ago.There were one or two people who dissagreed with me.I thought one of them was you altho I can be wrong :stuck_out_tongue:

Someone had said that the “I have awakened prematurely” thing meant that specific moment, out of his recharging chamber or wherever he is… The overall meaning and Abadd’s purpose/goal don’t really change whether we take this or another option for that specific sentence…

And btw, T’LAN, Abadd did not start thinking for himself, he always remained loyal to the Ancients in his own way, he just wasn’t sure what to do since his primary mission was not able to be completed anymore… So he just wanted to create a drone dominated world or something along those lines by using Orta’s reproductive abilities because he thought his Masters would approve of it were they there, so, no he’s not “impure” or anything like that… He’s the perfect example of a slave drone actually, totally the opposite of Azel…

Oops now I realize.O_o I was the one who perceived it in a literal way.

I think in a different way now tho :>

Actually, when you think about it, Abadd was trying to do something his Ancient masters would never have allowed him to do. This happened because Abadd could not fulfil his original objective. I wonder if the same thing happened to the Heresy program…