In all fairness, the grand majority of Panzer Dragoon Saga’s musical score is MIDI. Granted, it’s fed through the Cybersound wavetable software which let it sound better than the stuff coming from the N64 or PlayStation at the time, but it is MIDI nonetheless.
I don’t think it’s entirely valid to hate on a game’s soundtrack just because it’s MIDI. After all, the majority of game music is MIDI… it’s just a question of the quality of the hardware spitting out the tunes.
[quote=“Parn”]
In all fairness, the grand majority of Panzer Dragoon Saga’s musical score is MIDI. Granted, it’s fed through the Cybersound wavetable software which let it sound better than the stuff coming from the N64 or PlayStation at the time, but it is MIDI nonetheless.
I don’t think it’s entirely valid to hate on a game’s soundtrack just because it’s MIDI. After all, the majority of game music is MIDI… it’s just a question of the quality of the hardware spitting out the tunes.[/quote]
The Saturn used a Yamaha sound chip which was vastly superior to any of the consoles out at the times. Yes, PDS’ soundtrack was midi BUT it exploited the Yamaha sound chip, allowing for up to 32 sound channels, which was unheard of at that time; in fact, the PS1 was only capable of 12 sound channels. PDS didn’t sound like midi at all, and sounded very close, if not better than, CDDA (redbook).
Midi in games would not be so bad if they tried to mask the fact that it is, indeed, midi. This can be done by using most, if not all, of the available sound channels; unfortunately, most musicians are lazy, and use no more than 8 sound channels. Iwadare and Uematsu are good examples of musicians who don’t use very many sound channels, and this is one of the main reasons why their compositions suck so bad.
I don’t understand what you both are talking about, MIDI is just a protocol for electronic instruments to control and communicate with each other and other devices and software. Most of the older console games used some custom player that would be much more efficient and best exploit the hardware. In the case of average redbook audio it’s actually more likely that MIDI may have been employed in it’s production, but for chip music you can get much better results using simpler tracker style tools.
That said there’s not much that MIDI can’t do, it’s just a little pointless for use in a single system since it’s an interface protocol. And when you have direct control of the instrument it’s a lot easier to get the subtle nuance you want if something like MIDI isn’t in the way.
I’d like to see you do better than Uematsu. Some of the stuff he composes is boring is hell but some of it is really great stuff.
[quote=“Parn”]
In all fairness, the grand majority of Panzer Dragoon Saga’s musical score is MIDI.[/quote]
Bloody hell it certainly doesn’t sound like it.
You know what I meant, as MIDI has been adopted by most individuals as a method of referring to sequenced music, despite what the term really means. A quick look at VGMusic.com is a prime example.
That’s because of the software. Cybersound was wavetable software, very similar to Wingroove or Yamaha XG Synth. If you want to make your MIDI files sound very different, do a Google search for Wingroove and try it out… it makes them sound a LOT better.
Games like Panzer Dragoon Saga, NiGHTS, and even Skies of Arcadia on Dreamcast make use of the Cybersound software. When Overworks ported Skies of Arcadia to GameCube quickly, they didn’t bother taking Cybersound along for the ride, possibly because unlike the Saturn and Dreamcast, the GameCube didn’t have a Yamaha sound chip. The end result was that the same compositions ended up sounding awful on GameCube, with some sound channels seemingly missing altogether in several songs (Ramirez’s Theme is a good example, as it sounds so blatantly different from the Dreamcast version).
Unfortunately InVision Interactive, the creators of Cybersound, went out of business a long time ago.
Well I sort of knew what you meant Parn, but the discussion between you and Kadamose was confusing, I’m not sure you were both using the term the same way. By your definition the only other alternative is redbook, which I don’t think Kadamose is a fan of anyway, at least not for Panzer Dragoon. His pejorative use seemed like a reference to the kind of cheesy music from the early Sounblaster era days on PC, before there were any compatibility standards for improved audio.
My point is just that, it’s either chip music or redbook. Either can be great or crap, but if a game’s music is going to be sequenced and electronic anyway I much prefer it to be from the chip, like Azel and Radiant Silvergun.
[quote=“Heretic Agnostic”]Well I sort of knew what you meant Parn, but the discussion between you and Kadamose was confusing, I’m not sure you were both using the term the same way. By your definition the only other alternative is redbook, which I don’t think Kadamose is a fan of anyway, at least not for Panzer Dragoon. His pejorative use seemed like a reference to the kind of cheesy music from the early Sounblaster era days on PC, before there were any compatibility standards for improved audio.
My point is just that, it’s either chip music or redbook. Either can be great or crap, but if a game’s music is going to be sequenced and electronic anyway I much prefer it to be from the chip, like Azel and Radiant Silvergun.[/quote]
What in the world are you talking about? I’m a redbook fan all the way…did you ever own a Turbo Duo? Almost every single game had absolutely amazing soundtracks - every single one. But Parn already knew this fact, which is why the conversation may have come off sounding confusing.
To add to that, chip music is only ok if all the sound channels are used because, in many cases, it can sound better than redbook, due to the variation. With that said, the PDS soundtrack is almost impossible to achieve in redbook, due to the many variations of tempo and added instruments. PDS is an example of chip music done correctly and superbly.
Umm, so yeah, I guess that’s what the hell I was talking about Kadamose. I had a memory of you once saying something to the effect of “hopefully the music will be on chip” for a new PD RPG. Hence the qualification of…
If I’m misremembering then I will abjectly beg your pardon, but it seems consistent with what you just said.
shrug
What I was refering to in that statement was on a chip sequenced like PDS and NOT made in a studio like the dreaded Orta. There is no hidden meaning to that statement.
Saori Kobayashi, herself, said most of her creativity was inpsired by the limitations of the Saturn sound chip; she also said that she wasn’t as creative with PDO due to not being able to max out the Xbox sound chip. Moral of the story: sometimes limitation is a good thing.
If she’s inspired by limitations she’s just going to get worst. If she did that with PDS imagine if she was REALLY limited…
Let’s all give her a three keys keyboard for christmas this year. 
Anyways I actually vaguely remember such an interview of Saori Kobayashi but in the end I think it’s bull…I mean she DID do some good stuff in Orta’s soundtrack just not all of it.
Game musicians who say they can’t make good music is this day and age have got to be out of their mind.If sounds are the problem they even fabricate new sounds…
PD music isn’t so much about what instruments you have.I mean I heard great MIDI PD themes and good orchestral themes.It’s how you do it.
I mean the E3 boss theme (post in Seeker’s Stronghold) is 100% PD to me.And some of Orta’s themes turned out non-PDish (imo) (altho there were some that sounded PD).
[quote=“Gehpnaet”]Let’s all give her a three keys keyboard for christmas this year.
Anyways I actually vaguely remember such an interview of Saori Kobayashi but in the end I think it’s bull…I mean she DID do some good stuff in Orta’s soundtrack just not all of it.
[/quote]
She did the majority of the Orta soundtrack. The tracks she did were:
Track 02: Dragonmares
Track 03: City in the Storm
Track 04: Altered Genos
Track 08: Gigantic Fleet
Track 09: Pain
Track 10: Eternal Glacies
Track 11: Ancient Weapon 2
Track 12: Legacy
Track 13: Forbidden Memories
Track 14: Imperial City
Track 15: End of Destiny
Track 17: Iva
She’s clearly the only one who can make true panzer music; unfortunately, out of the tracks listed, only Track 04, Track 12, and Track 14 sound true panzerish. And what I mean by ‘panzerish’ is the tribal drum beat with the alien sounding instruments. Anyway, if you compare the PDO soundtrack to the PDS soundtrack, track per track, there is a huge difference in quality: PDS’ soundtrack, of course, being the clear winner.
[quote=“Kadamose”]
. Anyway, if you compare the PDO soundtrack to the PDS soundtrack, track per track, there is a huge difference in quality: PDS’ soundtrack, of course, being the clear winner.[/quote]
Ancient Weapon is one of the best tunes I’ve ever heard . So I don’t agree with what you’re saying . Also seeing as SAGA was a RPG’s it would require a more grander music score , so its not really a fair comparison .
I though the Music on Orta was better than Zwei , but nowhere near that to the 1st game, which still has one of the bets music score?s ever written
[quote=“Team Andromeda”]
I though the Music on Orta was better than Zwei [/quote]
Like that’s hard to do - Zwei only had one good song, really…and that was The Unexpected Enemy. Also, the original Panzer Dragoon only had two good tracks…which were the title screen and stage 1’s theme. That’s probably blasphemy to some, but it’s the truth. I, personally, do not know why the original’s soundtrack is revered so much: it’s not that good (with the exception of the very cool title screen music).
Replace “the truth” with “my opinion” and you’re set.
Can a mod split this thread as it’s gone quite off topic?
I thought PDO soundtrack was good, including the main theme Anu Orta Veniya. I notice some are indeed Panzerish(If you listen to it carefully), but just because most of the track are not Panzerish doesn’t mean its bad or awful. I found the non ones pretty good as the Panzerish ones.
The tracks, such as Forbidden Memories, just describes the surrounding around the rider that she is in a very different world.
And I kinda notice theres a part thats not in the soundtrack, the part in Orta, episode 7 where Orta meets her mother Azel. I think that track is from PDS.
[quote=“Kadamose”]
[quote=“Team Andromeda”]
I though the Music on Orta was better than Zwei [/quote]
Like that’s hard to do - Zwei only had one good song, really…and that was The Unexpected Enemy. Also, the original Panzer Dragoon only had two good tracks…which were the title screen and stage 1’s theme. That’s probably blasphemy to some, but it’s the truth. I, personally, do not know why the original’s soundtrack is revered so much: it’s not that good (with the exception of the very cool title screen music).[/quote]
In your view , you see ? . People have their own views on games, Just becasue you think its so, does not mean its total truth
.Also you talk about Panzerish. You can’t get any more Panzerish that the 1st game 
And in my view, the music score is one of the best ever. with EP 2 Boss
and EP 4 being some of the best tunes I’ve heard
All the soundtracks are good. I think each of them offer something different and are all enjoyable in their own right.
That may be true, but PDS’ soundtrack was perfect and should be used as a benchmark when comparing the other soundtracks. Unfortunately, none of the other soundtracks hold a candle to PDS. Though PDS was the last in the trilogy, it was the game that set the standard for everything in the series.