PDS
PDZ
PDO
PD (only because it’s so outdated by now, had time been kinder to it then it would propably be above PDO)
As for the idolization comments, I don’t think anyone here likes Saga simply because it’s Saga but because they really enjoyed it more. It’s not everyone’s cup of tea, no game is, but comments that hint at this attitude being mere fanboy-ism are, well, not correct, not for this community. Perhaps the visuals had less detail but the atmosphere was intact if not better, the music was top quality and fitting as well and the storyline trully epic. The gameplay had its downfalls in places (way too easy for example, but u could always try to have good scores like in the shooter games) but as an experience the overall was more than the sum of its parts thus granting this game the first place in many people’s hearts.
And I’d like to say that I prefer PDZ over PDO NOT because of affection toward the classics or over the art style as Raizen seems to suggest people do but simply because it gave me a much better ‘feel’ of the world, and even gameplay wise, while more simplistic, it felt so polished and it was a joy to glide through the levels again and again and again and again. Even though soon enough it took nearly no effort to finish it, that feeling of flying through a spectacular world shooting down “nasties” remained intact. And to me, that’s worth more than PDO’s “complex” gameplay when it fails to be up to par in most other aspects explained above.
Gameplay does matter but, overall, Zwei doesn’t lack in anything since the level design, the enemy patterns, the bosses, the visuals, sounds, and every other aspect make up for the lack of the new gameplay elements of Orta by far.
More doesn’t equal better.
Perhaps for others that’s not the case; for me it is and I’ll not accept anyone putting down my opinion on this simply because they feel they have to randomly throw around irrelative comments (it’s a fact many people don’t like the art style as much but it was never given as the main or the only reason people enjoy PDZ more. It’s the art style combined with many other things like the level design and enemy patterns) in order to justify their own opinions on a subject.
I agree with you in that respect, but what the Saturn PD shooters never had was character interaction in the depth that PDS created. That to me atleast, gives a better view of the world and the people that occupy it. More so than just good flyby scenery ever would.
Hmm… how did PDO “fail” at any of the aspects you listed above? It was definately a solid shooting experience, a natural evolution from the previous shooters, with plenty of tactical action thrown in for good measure with the different dragon forms. “Flying through a spectacular world filled with nasties?” Orta did that as well. It gave off a very good sense of it’s world. I also think that Zwei’s lack of challenge degraded the experience.
Not saying your opinion is wrong, as you are entitled to it, but I don’t understand how Orta’s gameplay “failed” to meet up with the standards you listed.
Which is the mantra I particularly subscribe to as well. In simpler terms: Quality vs. Quantity. Some of the gameplay features in Orta just don’t scream simple elegance and perfection the way Zwei’s did. Orta’s gameplay is more chaotic and less refined–the realtime dragon morphing to me was a gimmick and not even needed really. I much preferred the dragon evolution system in Zwei (but that’s just me prolly). It lets you focus and appreciate the beautiful visuals/nuances more (which was what Mega was talking about earlier; and really a hallmark of the series) and to me actually relax a bit more in-game as opposed to worrying constantly about what form of dragon I have to be in at this precise second of this portion of the level–it degrades the game in subtle ways. I’m just glad the Saturn was underpowered and Saga didn’t employ this feature because that was what was originally planned by TA.
Zwei always had challenge, of course it’s easier now (I’d certainly hope so) you’ve played it several times. The same goes for every game. Don’t even tell me you beat the game on your very first play and didn’t die once. If you did, then Zwei doesn’t “lack of challenge” as you profess but your supreme gaming talents “degraded the experience”. And if you did die then it isn’t lacking in challenge. It took me many attempts to beat the game and I did not find it easy at all my first go through, so your notion of Zwei being easy is a relative one, at best.
Nope. I admit it is simple now, but the VERY FIRST play through was riddled with death on bosses and the last level–perhaps 6 or less, though, to be sure. I’m not lessened in anyway because I admit this. Just honest.
And, BTW, I did not read anything about the game beforehand, or use any hints, guides, tips, etc. So, I played it raw my first time though, as I do all my games.
i didn’t say anything about fanboy-ism, saga was a great game and anyone who likes it has plenty to justify that enjoyment. my comments were in response to the continual bashing that orta gets for idiotic and unexplained reasons and the endless praise for saga. it’s been that way since i signed up here and i never understood this unanimous sentiment that twota holds. i provide my stance as a counter balance to this (until now) disappointingly one sided issue.
[quote=“Megatherium”] my comments were in response to the continual bashing that orta gets for idiotic and unexplained reasons and the endless praise for saga. it’s been that way since i signed up here and i never understood this unanimous sentiment that twota holds. i provide my stance as a counter balance to this (until now) disappointingly one sided issue.
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1-Are you deaf?I’ve said countless times why Orta is not a perfect PD game : the art,the music.Drastically changed.Sometimes for better but mostly for worse.If you are going to give me Raisen’s speech concerning gameplay (and even tho I love the series’ gameplay(s) - and yes it’s one of the reasons why I love PD in the first place) I’ll tell you that maybe you should prefer Rez to the PD shooters (I don’t actually mean that just an example).Because if you take the PD setting out you could integrate the gameplay into any other game.Would you be a die hard fan of THAT game?
If it wasn’t for the world of PanDra I’m sure most people wouldn’t even be here talking.
2-I’m sure you have seen how a lot of people here has RPG background.Is it so surprsing Saga is the general favourite?
Huh? Orta is an extension of the gameplay in Zwei. Zwei was a point-and-shoot rail-shooter, with very little “thought” involved. Orta forced you to think in battle and use twitch reflexes to your advantage. How is that “worse”?
It’s more chaotic I guess, but I COMPLETELY disagree with “less refined”. How is that? And like I said before, the different dragons was a natural extension of the gameplay. Would you have preffered the EXACT same game as Zwei?
Why do you even play games? You obviously don’t like to be challenged or provide actual effort or thinking into your playing experience. It may sound cliche to say this, but you may as well just read a book or watch a movie to experience great worlds without the annoyance of a controller.
I did beat the game on my first playthrough, although it was not death-free (I died once against the final boss due to a stupid, careless mistake that has never happened since).
Don’t put words into my mouth, I never claimed to have “supreme gaming talents”. Besides if someones talent degrades the experience, it’s the fault of the game, not the gamer. It’s bad game design to not have difficulty settings (which is weird because the previous game had three.)
The greatest games I have ever played are games where I feel a sense of accomplishment after I win. This is due to great game design that delivers harsh, but doable challenges that may take a while but you feel great when you do them. Zwei did not give me this feeling. When I finished it I said “Is that it?”
Frankly, I’m surprised so many people here don’t seem to like Orta. I thought it was the best in the series.
Panzer Dragoon Saga was good…but it was just to easy. And it didn’t really give me that otherworldly feel that Zwei and Orta conveyed to me. In all honesty, most of the fields were kind of boring compared to the sites I flew through in Orta. Faceless, bland underground structures, canyons, and open oceans…the only part that really felt like a part of the Panzer world was Uru, which I’ll admit was a magnificent map. But for me, Saga lacked the countless hidden secrets that many RPGs have. I never really felt the need to explore the world, beyond finding the medicine for that sick kid and unlocking the final dragon form. The onfoot levels did a considerably better job of immersing me in the Panzer world, but overall, it just didn’t draw me in that much. Of course, in terms of story, Saga was pretty good, albeit a slightly lackluster ending.
Overall, Zwei and Orta’s levels simply held more mystery, detail, and wonder. They were loaded with ancient structures, and things that made you go “Wow.”.
And in gameplay, between Zwei and Orta, I give it to the one that offers the most depth, action, and difficulty. And Orta delivers best in all 3. Quantity isn’t better then quality, but when you get a lot of quality, it’s still good. The morphing system, evolution system, and faster paced gameplay all added to the experience, and made Orta my favorite game of all time. Period. As fun as Zwei was, it lacks Orta’s depth and difficulty. As for art, well, I won’t comment. I never noticed a huge difference, but I’ve enjoyed the art in all 4 games.
Lackluster ending?! What?! You honestly think that both the ‘death’ of the heresy program and the main character were lackluster?! That was the BEST ending I have ever seen in ANY game. Granted, it left alot of things unanswered in the end…but it was supposed to make one speculate on what happened exactly. The symoblism in both the ending, and the game, itself, are AMAZING.
I won’t comment on this in detail, since I can’t see how you can compare the “quality” of two games from an entirely different genre. But oh well…
A lot of people tend to forget that the graphics and presentation were truly revolutionary at their time, PDO is merely a condensation on its forerunners. It’s a nice railshooter with nice graphics, sure. But sales showed that it did not sell even though it actually HAD marketing which PDS had not.
Imagine PDO without PDS and it would just have been a wierd railshooter in a time where noone plays this genre anymore. I can’t see PDO starting such a hardcore fanbase as the Saturn titles - especially PDS - did.
What I love about PDS is not the complex story or the character development, the brilliant soundtrack or the heartbreaking ending. It’s the mood and atmosphere (oh how I love the sunset at Uru and the burning Zoah forest). I have hardly seen a game with such deeply atmospheric levels until now in wich you could just be for a while without having to kill anything that moves.
Whilst it’ll never happen in this lifetime, seeing PDS’s environments (Sunset at Uru, Burning Forest, waterfall in Seeker’s Stronghold) on some of the more current technology would be such a trip (in the drug sense). I remember playing Sonic Adventure 1 on the DC as the first game I got for it, then when Sunset hit Mystic Ruin…I just ran about as Sonic, admiring the place. Wow. It ruled. And the music for that section just made it even better.
Lackluster ending?! What?! You honestly think that both the ‘death’ of the heresy program and the main character were lackluster?! That was the BEST ending I have ever seen in ANY game. Granted, it left alot of things unanswered in the end…but it was supposed to make one speculate on what happened exactly. The symoblism in both the ending, and the game, itself, are AMAZING.[/quote]
It just didn’t seem like an adequate ending to such an epic story. I’ve played quite a few games with a good storyline, and this was probably one of the most underwhelming endings I ever witnessed. I know that what actually happened was pretty huge, but it simply didn’t convey just how huge it was all that well.
And…how did the main character die? From what I gathered, both Edge and the dragon survived.
Well, simple. They are both games, and the goal of both of these games is to be fun to play and experience. And for me, PDO simply did a better job.
