Al3x : The truth is Nintendo has already revealed something that won’t help them in any way as far as the casual market is concerned - “graphics isn’t everything”.
Nintendo has already revealed much of the philosophy of the console.I bet Revolution will score a bit better on Japan than the Cube did but in Europe/America it will only go down from here…
Please explain how you know what it’s going to be.
They have stated they will be launcing new IPs as well, why do you believe half of what they say (ie announced titles) and not the other half?
As far as I know the DS has been doing quite well regardless of what I think of it - it’s not even supposed to be a ‘main’ console for Nintendo since a new GBA successor will be coming sooner or later according to them…
Oh my god, somebody sue them, false advertising about exclusivity! Do I need to remind how many games have been touted as console exclusive by Sony and Microsoft only for the games to later appear on other consoles and/or PC? Why is it such a bad thing for Nintendo? We should know how it goes with Capcom anyway, Code Veronica was originally a DC exclusive game, remember?
You are so negative because they have a track record of doing cheap hardware? I’m fairly sure the GC is currently more capable than the PS2. My old GameBoy also lasted for like a decade and still worked fine until I gave it to a little cousin of mine. I’ve heard the same good comments about the GBA as well.
Also they have said specs aren’t EVERYTHING but have made it clear that they won’t stay behind in that aspect either, it’s just they feel they need MORE than that as graphics aren’t EVERYTHING - no, really, they aren’t, you need gameplay too! I do expect it to be underpowered compared to the other systems but that’s pure speculation on my part as well. Also, if Sony can do it and be succesful (see the PS2), so can other companies.
Which experts and which developers and where and when and what good, valid, unspeculative reasons did they give for not supporting the Revolution?
See above.
And, if that nobody is like you then, again it’s simply pure speculation with nothing to base it on.
Again, if you think Zelda is some cheap low budget game, then, whatever. Simply lol. I guess we should also call Ico cheap just cos it doesn’t have speech, because every game needs speech to be good and all the final fantasy games with orchestral soundtracks and voice are the best thing that gaming has ever seen so we should just want that and not accept anything less!
But you still bash Nintendo for milking their Zelda franschise… Lol. Thanks for reinforcing the point I made earlier. Since when is milking bad anyways, especially when it’s AAA game after AAA game every single time… Nobody has even come close to replicating the Zelda gameplay with success after all these years so I say the more of that we get the better.
Why, when did Sony or Microsoft give you free games? Can you play the PSOne games free on the PS2 as for Nintendo to have to give you N64 games for free? Even Sega made their classic games available for a fee on Real One Arcade sometime ago and attempted to do the same for Saturn games with the commercial Giri Giri version. Or do you think X-Box games will be free on the 360? Or have all those other companies’ retro re-releases been shipped with only the price of a CD and no more? Or what? Again just bashing Nintendo alone for things all companies do. So negative, oh well. I still find that service a great feature and something that more should do as it will allow all those games to be kept by legal means that give a helping hand to the developers and not give people that pirate games via emulation the the satisfaction of a good excuse for doing it (ie can’t find the game anymore by legal means).
As far as we know it’s going to be a free service for online multiplayer and as for MMORPGs, I’m sorry but I don’t think you will see any company give you one without a fee unless it’s some game that is “LIKE an MMORPG” but not really, similar to Guild Wars or Phatnasy Star Online style (and PSO even had fees!). That has nothing to do with paying for the service, it’s paying for the specific game. So anyway, again, pure speculative bashing, sorry I don’t take these as real points. I mean, seriously, bashing Nintendo for developing this imaginary MMORPG that will have no other reason for existence other than to make up for the costs of online gaming? Durrrrrrr… Sigh.
[quote=“Team Andromeda”]
I see the online part of Prime Hunters as been cut , no doubt to the cost of setting up these servers and NCL doesn?t want to ask money for it (after making so much noise about their online will be free. 2 years down the line NCL will be asking money to play online[/quote]
Yeah ok, and Nintendo is the first company to cut features from a game again let’s sue them for getting our hopes up! Those turds!
Can’t really respond to this as I haven’t looked into it but it’s not like Sony’s online service for the PSP (not to mention the game releases are um, just not there apart from a few totally uninspired games) is going well, but hey, let’s just gang up against Nintendo, they deserve it!
Really, most of your points are nothing but senseless bashing for no reason other than giving this anti-Nintendo attitude, most are purely speculation and the rest are things every compane does or has done. I’m far from a Nintendo fanboy and don’t even own a GBA DS or GC (on the other hand I don’t own any opposing systems either and if I was to buy one in the last generation it would be the GC as to me it has more must have - not just “great” - exclusive titles) but I can still see things more objectively, oh well…
Again, if the hardcore gamers start bashing Nintendo and going all for Sony after the policy they have expressed (talk about promised PS2 power in the past and recently the pre-rendered videos touted as in-game movies when the hardware isn’t even finalised) and M$ (which by the way it’s no surprise they have PUBLISHED more games, they kind of have the cash and kind of have always been publishing games for PC, it’s not like they are some newb company that it is surprising they surpass others in fields where money is the most important thing) then there really is no hope for a return to the golden gaming era with good ol Sega and Nintendo. Sigh 
Like I said there’s only so many ways one can move a character through a 3D world .
Going buy the Tilt motion and touch screen games found in a few NCL HH games I take it that will form the basis of the Rev Controller . Well unless NCL wants to ask more than ?40 per controller (which nobody will pay).
. It called thier track record on the Cube Mario this and that. Look what just come out Mario dance and Basball with Football set to follow.
They’ll make a couple of new games, and milk Mario. Its what they’ve always done.
[quote]Oh my god, somebody sue them, false advertising about exclusivity! Do I need to remind how many games have been touted as console exclusive by Sony and Microsoft only for the games to later appear on other consoles and/or PC? Why is it such a bad thing for Nintendo? We should know how it goes with Capcom anyway, Code Veronica was originally a DC exclusive game, remember?
[/quote]
And again remind me why that was . Nothing to do with poor sales or market share by any chance ??.
Also RE4 only just come out this year with the worlds ‘Only For’. It took some 2 years before Capcom said they were bringing CV to the PS2.
Oh and apart from Crimson Sea I can’t think of one X-Box game that had ‘Only On XBox’ that was ported to another console (PC’s don’t count).
[quote]You are so negative because they have a track record of doing cheap hardware? I’m fairly sure the GC is currently more capable than the PS2. My old GameBoy also lasted for like a decade and still worked fine until I gave it to a little cousin of mine. I’ve heard the same good comments about the GBA as well.
Also they have said specs aren’t EVERYTHING but have made it clear that they won’t stay behind in that aspect either, it’s just they feel they need MORE than that as graphics aren’t EVERYTHING - no, really, they aren’t, you need gameplay too! I do expect it to be underpowered compared to the other systems but that’s pure speculation on my part as well. Also, if Sony can do it and be succesful (see the PS2), so can other companies.
[/quote]
Missing the point somewhat. PS2 was sold at loss to Sony. In order for SONY to get market share.
That’s somthing the NCL have never done (and fair plays it works for them). Also the Cube came out at the same time as the X-Box. So that the tech its should be Compared too. And it’s outclassed in almost every area. NCL couldn’t even offer Dolby Digital as standard (Let more cost cutting).
Also don;t every foget that more power makes diff games possible. With out the N64 Power games like Mario, Zelda or more so Wave Race 64 could never be done.
Just the likes of Strategy Analysts and Merrill Lynch .
[quote]Again, if you think Zelda is some cheap low budget game, then, whatever. Simply lol. I guess we should also call Ico cheap just cos it doesn’t have speech, because every game needs speech to be good and all the final fantasy games with orchestral soundtracks and voice are the best thing that gaming has ever seen so we should just want that and not accept anything less!
[/quote]
I never said it was cheap. Its a big production but harldy high risk as NCL know it will sell. And unlike SEGA or Capcom ect NCL won’t push the boat out spend the cash of a full voice cast or a full piece Orchestra, becasue that would cost too much money. Shame really as that would add to the epic (almost Lord Of The Ring like) setting of the new Zelda.
BTW ICO had full voice acting (admittedly not much) and the Team even went to the trouble of creating its own unique language (very much like Panzer Dragoon). If you finish the Pal version you even get to see English Text for the speech to understand what they are saying.
[quote]But you still bash Nintendo for milking their Zelda franschise… Lol. Thanks for reinforcing the point I made earlier. Since when is milking bad anyways, especially when it’s AAA game after AAA game every single time… Nobody has even come close to replicating the Zelda gameplay with success after all these years so I say the more of that we get the better.
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Yeah because in addition to new Sonic, Virtual Fighter and Dragoon games on the Saturn. SEGA also gave us NIGHTS, Decathlete , Dragon Force, Blueseed, Bug, Magic NightRayearth, Burning Rangers, Clockworknight, Sukura Wars, Lets Make, Deep Fear, Last Bronx, Virtual On , Sega Rally to name but a few (Don’t even get me started on the DC).
All in all a hell of a lot more new IP than what NCL have done on its home console (even including HH ports).
This diff they aren’t the ones making out thier online services is free.
Seeing as that was one of the main selling points , it’s a backwards step. NCL Online haven’t even got of the ground yet and its already cuting back features. I bet it was cut due to costs of setting up Servers
Ico had speech. Just a made up language.
I’ll always be loyal to The Legend of Zelda. The series has given me nothing but quality games since the beginning. I eagerly look forward to the upcoming game.
If there will be a new or remake Panzer Dragoon game on ANY of the next gen systems, then I’ll be very happy.
Also take what NCL says at face vaule.
Lets not forget that NCL reckoned the N64 DD would be the 2nd coming and make games not possible before, possible.
Only for F-Zero to make any real use of the system and most of the games turn up on bog standard carts.
For the system it’s self to be dumped weeks after going on sale, and the online service not long after .
At least SEGA kept the Mega CD and DC going for a few years and they were dropped, and the DC online service for a good few years (at cost to SEGA).
And I remember NCL going on the record saying how they learnt form past mistakes and how the CUBE was made with easy of use and 3rd party in mind.
And best of the lot how they have over 30 In-House games in production for the CUBE Rolls Eye’s.
They have even come close to that some 4 years on.
So excuse me while I’ll take some of what they say about the Revolution with a very large pinch of salt
A) even that alone could offer new possibilities if used well
B) only so many ways in your opinion, if it was just that, why would they hide it as something new when they’ve already done it and shown it with the DS?
C) it’s still just speculation on your part
So companies now can’t change policies? They said they will I see no reason to only accept half of what they say and dismiss the rest and call it “taking it with a pinch of salt”.
Besides what the hell is wrong with those games? They offer new gameplay possibilities and happen to use well known characters, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with them. If you dismiss such great games as, for example, mario kart and paper mario as simply mario cash ins, well, who cares, again, AAA games with not just the same gameplay all the time so in the end, just as good as a new IP regardless of using known characters.
Yadda yadda yadda, starting to realise I’m talking with a fortune teller…
[quote=“Team Andromeda”]
And again remind me why that was . Nothing to do with poor sales or market share by any chance ??[/quote]
The result matters just as much as the reason, and the fact is many many many games for whatever platform in the past have been touted as exclusive only to later be converted. Don’t see why Nintendo has to now be bashed for it.
Sorry, they do count, as that “only for” or whatever M$ uses is nulified by that. And I also spoke for both the PS2 and X-Box not just one or the other, don’t just focus on one company for one point and another for another when you initially brought both of them into play…
Sorry, same generation systems so all 3 will be compared the same. Ninty’s consoles have always been sold at competitive prices so other than that there’s no reason to explain if and why or why not they were sold at a loss or at a gain. The prices have been decent.
Nothing I said indicates I forgot that, I see no reason to make this point… Again, Nintendo has said that they are not ALL about specs but want to offer new things AS WELL. I do expect the Rev to be underpowered but I don’t believe it will be such a great deal or that a certain kind of game will not be able to be done on it. Though it will be a problem for multi platform titles like you said, but hey, it’s still all speculation so how about we wait and see what actually happens before starting to bash?
Tiny answer for a big question. Need more.
You sure acted like it. And it’s not. Speech is not necessary and the game misses nothing from it, it’s more than fine as it is, maybe they will eventually add it, maybe they will not, either way Zelda games are always AAA and any complains about them are merely nitpicking.
Yeah ok my bad, it was just an example anyway, insert whatever great game without speech that you want there instead of Ico.
So if you say that you offer online gaming service for free you have to also give away free games for people to not bash you? Lol…
[quote=“Team Andromeda”]
Seeing as that was one of the main selling points , it’s a backwards step. NCL Online haven’t even got of the ground yet and its already cuting back features.[/quote]
What does this add to the argument? When has a lost feature been a forward step as to have to clarify that the loss of this feature was a backwards step? I know it was, but Nintendo is not the only one that has done it.
Metroid imo is a single player game anyways, it’s not some mindless FPS and multiplayer doesn’t add anything to it, just some generic blasting that has nothing to do with the wonderful main game and has no reason to exist. Which may as well be the reason instead of the one you wanted to dream of.
And some big game ending up without using the online game service doesn’t mean the service will suck at all. Halo originally didn’t have online multiplayer but that didn’t stop Microsoft’s service from being good did it?
So Nintendo has done mistakes in the past. Hurray for the revelation, we know. What about all their success so far, what makes you think they will replicate their failures instead of the things they’ve done right. Maybe you are not into portable consoles but Nintendo has and still is taking the world by storm in that aspect (even with the PSP here), what makes you so negative about their ability to do well in a given gaming field? Sure they have done mistakes in the past, so what? Bashing future efforts from an established company like Nintendo as if they have been a failure since they entered the field is just, well, silly.
You are not taking them with a pinch of salt, you are simply flat out bashing them for things they have said and things they haven’t said and things you imagine, dream of, speculate on. That’s far from expressing doubts. And again, most any company I can think of has fallen short on given promises so excuse me while again, I say, why only bash Nintendo for it and act like they are a failure when everybody has done it but is apparently praised by you saying everybody will love them over anything Nintendo will offer.
I never said those games were bad. Just that Iwata keeps baning on at how NCl are kings of innovation and originality and so on. So hard to sallow when the only 2 completely new original IP NCL done this gen is Pikmin, Wario Ware (even that had to use Mario Characters) or Animal Crossing. Just look at that this
Hardly original or innovating . The Mario sport games are all a bit pointless. The baseball is nothing more than Namco popular cute baseball game with a Mario face, Same for Dance Dance with is Just Konami making a DD game for Nintendo.
Strikers is made by the Soccer Slam Team (Hell at least that had original characters) So I stick with that or something like Virtual Strikers or FIFA Streets is I want to play a Arcade/simple system football game
The real point is those games are available on other machines (just without the Mario face). Where’s the innovation and original IP NCL promised ??.
[quote]Sorry, they do count, as that “only for” or whatever M$ uses is nulified by that. And I also spoke for both the PS2 and X-Box not just one or the other, don’t just focus on one company for one point and another for another when you initially brought both of them into play…
[/quote]
Oh my Mistake us Saturn owners should have pointed out that the likes Tomb Raider, Final Fanstasy were exclusive to Sony, but were also on the PC. What a waste of money buy Sony Buying the Exclusive console rights.
So no I never count PC’s just ‘consoles’.
Yes but they never sold at lost , not like SEGA , Sony Or M$ have done trying to get market share.
SEGA almost wend under selling the DC at loss from the very start trying to cut market share.
I’m not knocking NCL for it as it done thier profits wonders (They’ll be around for ever). Just saying the Rev will have trouble with the casuals and the tech heads becasue it will be under speced to the 360 or PS3.
So games like RE5 will gos to those machines.
[quote]Tiny answer for a big question. Need more.
[/quote]
More ?. Merrill Lynch. Is one of the most respected crops in the market. In fact in 2001 they predicted the PS2 would go onto sell 100 million consoles (well they weren’t far off).
Oh and here’s what’s SA had to say about the next gen
"In their newest next-gen report, snappily entitled Games Consoles for the Digital Home: Assessing the Prospects for PS3, Xbox 360 and Revolution (hey don’t knock it, it does precisely what it says on the tin) the firm predicts that over 200 million next-gen consoles will be sold by 2012, with Microsoft eating into Sony’s dominance and Nintendo conceding further market share.
According to Strategy Analysts the Xbox 360 will take an early lead in the next-gen war and could maintain it until 2007 when Sony’s PS3 will bite back to gain the leading market share. Intriguingly the report identifies online as the crucial battleground with Sony’s ability to reel Microsoft back in totally dependent on the PS3’s online experience. As the report puts it: “The PlayStation 3 will eventually pull ahead if Sony ensures that its online experience matches that of the Xbox 360, and that its Cell processor technology meets its full potential to transform gaming into a near-video quality experience.”
Moving onto the wider uses of next-gen, Strategy Analysts see the PS3 and Xbox 360 at the heart of the battle to capture your living room, although interestingly, they place a slightly different emphasis on each. “Both the PS3 and the Xbox 360 will become cornerstones of each company’s digital home strategy. Sony will use the PS3 to help establish Blu-ray Disc and the Cell processor as mass market technologies. For Microsoft the Xbox 360 could secure a leading position for the home PC as a broadband digital media server.”
Moving onto raw numbers, Strategy Analysts’ report throws out some interesting figures too, saying that over 200 million next-gen consoles will be sold in a market whose ‘cumulative revenues’ could be worth in excess of $47 billion. Strategy Analysts say that it expects 121.8 million PS3s to be sold in total, while the Xbox 360 will sell 58.8 million with the Revolution limping home in a distant third with just 18 million consoles.".
No nothing is free. And you think NCL were be offering a free online service for the Life of the Rev then I really don’t now what to say.
Don’t forget NCL have milked its NES and SNES games with various ports to the GBA ect (even asking ?15 per NES classic port for the GBA) .
So find it very hard to thing they won’t ask for money for online gamming.
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It was called hunters for a reason (ie hunting people down) and NCL kept banging on about the multi-player and online modes at various shows. Only far it not to be cut.
Well that’s a backward step for me. If they having trouble making that go online then it doesn’t bold well for the furtue.
No I remember all the Promises with the N64 and Cube .
Here’s a couple more from Edge Aug 2001 from Satoru Iwata
“There will definitely be more games released on the GameCube than on the N64 Iwata-san promises as well as more new franchises to accompany the familiar faces-another blunder in the N64 strategy he concedes.
“ back in-house some 20 Game Cube are in development “ (NCL said in another interview that it was over 30)
“ we’re currently investigating how to make money within the internet filed” (still think they won’t ask a fee to online game ???
“really the purpose of the GameCube project was do this- to bring that production time to with-in a year or so, and to create games that were exiting and new for the players".
So I heard it all before about easy of development and the machine made with 3rd party’s in mind.
Where the new IP and the 20 In-House games NCL promsied ???.
You can count the new IP and In-House games NCL made on one pair of hands .
BTW I don’t want to seem nasty to you. I just sick of NCL that all. Pople don’t take this as a go at you (like to think we’re all mates on here)
I’d rather you just linked me to where things were said and mainly which developers as you said were the ones that thought only M$ and $ony will be worth it as far as next gen goes.
Still, how can any analyst know how things will evolve within the market when he doesn’t know all of what will be available. Don’t you think a more proper analysis could be made once all three developers have shown all their cards? We still have like a year (some like to speculate Sony will show the PS2 this spring which imo is highly doubtful seeing as the hardware wasn’t even finalised @ last E3) before any releases so how can someone be so certain about how things will evolve when a) it’s quite far away and b) (again) doesn’t know all of what will be available…
Those games you posted their covers haven’t hurt the GC for sure, and like you said other platforms have similar without the Mario characters (won’t argue quality here since I don’t know much about any of them) which to me simply shows how Nintendo can manage with less third party support by getting their own versions of these games. The known characters don’t hurt the games at all anyways, they just enhance them if anything.
Hell, I bet every company wishes they could make any of their characters so popular as to be able to make so many games and have them keep selling… I wish Sega could have done that with Sonic but noo, they keep making worse and worse games… And Nintendo is bad because they use him to do actually good games?
Still, I don’t think GameCube owners have been denied any particular genre, there’s something for everyone there…
But I guess you will have a lot to disagree with about that since you seem to have grown a rather big dislike about Nintendo (and their IPs) so you probably won’t accept the greatness of titles like Metroid (x2), Zelda (x2 + that multiplayer spin off), Fire Emblem, Resident Evil (the remake - still exclusive afaik), several of the Wario, Luigi or Mario spin offs (mansion, paper, kart, smash bros, whatever), Batten Kaitos, Starfox (the new action game, not Rare’s adventure attempt), F-Zero GX, Animal Crossing, Pikmin, Tales of Symphonia etc…
And it’s still getting many of the high caliber multiplatform titles such as Need for Speed and the upcoming King Kong game… And I think even the likes of Splinter Cell have been converted?
So, exactly what kind of game do you think the GameCube is lacking and the other consoles have some amazing masterpiece of and Nintendo has miserably failed to deliver to their fans? And if they are lacking in something, is the console that offering that not lacking in anything else at all? Or is this simply a problem for Nintendo using their old IPs so much? Would it really make any difference if that tennis or whatever game had other cutesy characters instead of Mario and friends?
How can you even compare something like that to the X-Box anyway, that one CAN’T have old IPs so obviously most things on it will appear as having a new coat of paint, wether the gameplay is old or not.
Maybe Nintendo haven’t offered many new things but the Gamecube still has many AAA titles that can rival anything seen on other consoles.
Does it matter that it’s Zelda instead of a newly created action RPG brand when it rivals most anything similar (is there anything similar? maybe Ico could fit here…) that is available on other systems?
Does it matter that it’s Metroid Prime(s) and not a new FPS/Adventure brand when it was a) the first time Metroid went 3D and b) not quite like anything else offered out there (no it’s not just another FPS)…
Does it matter that it’s Paper Mario and not Paper-NewGuy when it’s, again, an experience quite unlike any other (excluding the N64 game of course) console RPG?
Hell, what am I doing, why do I have to argue about the GameCube when our discussion was about next gen and how you were flat out bashing Nintendo saying they WILL (not may) fail and they WILL (not may) do the opposite of what they say they will do and, lastly, that they don’t even know what they want to do with the controller? Seriously, why so much negative speculation? Ok you can base some of it on past mistakes but, come on, they don’t know what the controller will be like yet??? Where do you come off with something like that and what’s even the point of mentioning it other than to attempt a speculative bashing?
Sony is the one that displays unfinished hardware and presents pre-rendered videos as being in-game real-time stuff, so why bash Nintendo even for something along those lines?
Why do you want to base everything Nintendo says they plan to do on their past mistakes and ignore anything they do right?
If that’s the way you think how can you even be among Sega fans, if you dislike Nintendo so much I’d think you wouldn’t touch anything Sega related at all after all their hardware - and software, poor Sonic and poor Shining Force and in some cases poor Phantasy Star and others - failures lol… If you just want to judge a company by past failures and ignore anything they do right then I don’t know how Sega can be considered anything but a long dead rotting corpse of a horse that someone with that way of thinking would want to be as far away from as possible to avoid the stench…
To me, Sega and Nintendo are very much alike anyway and though I don’t “love” Nintendo like I do Sega, I do have high respect for and value them quite highly since they also create many of my favorite games.
While for me, Microsoft simply brought the pc-game style market to all the newbies that had only ever played console games and found it being such a revelation when in reality it wasn’t anything that awesome… Halo was what originally saved M$ and it’s by far a very very overrated game, there has been far better than that in the past for both single and multi-player… It’s just all the console players hadn’t seen it.
I also hink that people who say “PC’s don’t count” are just people who aren’t much into PC gaming… how can they not count, just because they are a media that a) is costly and b) isn’t just meant for games? So what, the fact remains millions of people have access to them and so buy games for them and so they can’t be excluded from the games industry.
It was a different era when the battle between the Saturn and the PSOne was raging. PCs were even underpowered for a time compared to consoles. The FFVII port was just plain, well, shit. It was also a portion of the market that couldn’t care less for games of that type. But that gap has been closing all the time, especially in this generation.
It also goes to show that initial exclusives count even if they later get on to be multi platform. It counts a LOT that the GC got Resi 4 first. Just like it counts a LOT that Sony always gets Grand Theft Auto first. It boosts sales, it pleases their fans, it’s good for the company. Some people (like me) don’t care too much if they know they can get the game on their system later on but for the mainstream these things matter a lot. Resi 4 going multi platform is nothing to bash Nintendo for because it happens everywhere all the time, it’s a widely used strategy to get games exclusive either for good, or for a certain period.
Hell, some people have expressed worries that the PC game devs see all the money there are in the consoles and so sometimes neglect PCs now, and you try to tell me that it’s a different market when the same developers swing back and forth between pc/consoles or do both at the same time?
Anyway, I’m done with this discussion, there’s nothing more to say, you keep bashing Ninty with some valid points - though they don’t explain all the nagativity - but also some outrageous speculation. I don’t think you even understood some of the things I said judging from your responses and you keep repeating some things for no reason. Either way, I have nothing to add, I’ve said what I think about the subject and now I’ll just wait and see what happens.
[quote]f that’s the way you think how can you even be among Sega fans, if you dislike Nintendo so much I’d think you wouldn’t touch anything Sega related at all after all their hardware - and software, poor Sonic and poor Shining Force and in some cases poor Phantasy Star and others - failures lol… If you just want to judge a company by past failures and ignore anything they do right then I don’t know how Sega can be considered anything but a long dead rotting corpse of a horse that someone with that way of thinking would want to be as far away from as possible to avoid the stench…
To me, Sega and Nintendo are very much alike anyway and though I don’t “love” Nintendo like I do Sega, I do have high respect for and value them quite highly since they also create many of my favorite games.
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Diff is SEGA leaders aren?t going round saying there are kings of innovation and originality . Which NCL keeps banging on about.
They’re already at it again , saying it with the Rev, yet going by what NCL did on the CUBE (despite the promises) where They’re made just 2 new real IP and so far only talked about a new Mario, Prime, Smash, Kong. Find it hard to believe the Revolution will be anything but a Revolution
Unlike with SEGA. I?ve lost count of the New IP SEGA did on the DC alone (never mind the Saturn) You think SEGA and NCL are the same don?t make me laugh.
SEGA push the boat out and take risks . You think NCL would make Shenmue (too much money), PSO (fact chance), JSR , REZ , Samba De Amigo (to name but a few) or even sell their console at a loss ??.
Don?t make me laugh and that?s the diff. SEGA try new stuff and take risks. Even this gen with all sorts of backroom problems SEGA made more new IP than than NCL, never mind inthe DC days where SEGAS were skint
NCL always play the safe approach in the Home Market, Oh at least SEGA Characters actually speak :).
Please Lobotomy were there years before Retro.
Play Exhumed/Powerslave becasue Retro obviously did . Going by how much Prime plays like it
Becasue I had enought of the likes and Promises . You never seen me slag of the Snes. Because that was a stunning machine and I liked it more than the Mega Drive.
NCL made everybody lese looks silly in those days , and made SEGA look like nothing.
I so anti NCL because I’ve heard it all before and how it will be so diff ?this time?. More so after I paid loads on the importing the Cube and N64 .
The downfall started with the N64 during the last couple of years of its life. Only diff then was NCL had RARE to back then up, or Capcom with the Cube. They’ll have nether this next gen.
NCL and its fansneed to wake up and smell the coffee at how much NCL are becoming less and less a major player in the home market, and with the masses and 3rd parties unlike .
You know I was never happy with the mess ups SEGA was making in the DC and Saturn days, yet for some reason NCL always paper over their failings.
Anyway for all my bashing.
I?ll be the 1st in the cue if Mario 128 turns out to be amazing. Nobody makes a better platfrom game than NCL
[quote=“Team Andromeda”]
Please Lobotomy were there years before Retro.
Play Exhumed/Powerslave becasue Retro obviously did . Going by how much Prime plays like it[/quote]
Prime plays like a 3D Metroid, Lobotomy didn’t invent the whole “oh cool you can gain new abilities as you play through which let you access areas that you weren’t able to go to before!” type of gameplay you know… If I wanted to bash I’d say that Lobotomy looked @ Metroid for the Snes and tried to make a fps version… but I don’t wanna cos it’s highly doubtful and Lobotomy rocked.
And yes I’ve played Exhumed, it was my favorite FPS even though not as high profile as the likes of Duke Nukem 3D and Quake.
As for the Sega games you mention…
Shenmue is overrated and it cost so much money because of shitty management, not because the game really needed so much money to be created (I think Abadd was the one that confirmed this - don’t take my word on it though).
JSR was great but I guess you could bash them for cashing in on it on X-Box with that mindset that you are holding. But you won’t of course, cos you don’t hate Sega, only Nintendo 
Rez - well, no more Rez for Sega as the way they treat their developers they keep making them quit, its creator will probably make it for the 360 or something next (with a different name cos Sega has the rights to that - I’d like to see them try to surpass whatever the original creator will do).
Samba De Amigo - Nice new idea…
…Butl, how about that Kong game with the drums that Nintendo did? Wasn’t that even more innovative since it wasn’t just about the music but also to actually control the on screen character using the drums?
And how about the funky Yoshi game (I think that’s on DS, or GBA, not sure) that you need to tilt the handheld around and it affects the character (ie you can build up momentum by moving it like a swing and help him jump further or tilt it so that a very angled surface becomes “flatter” and so he can walk up it, etc)?
Even The Four Swords is quite original in the way its multiplayer works and better than squaresoft’s effort with Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles (both are multiplayer Action RPGs).
Wario Ware was also a cool idea despite technically having nothing new (most, if not all of the included mini games were classic games or simply done before).
And then there’s Pikmin, and I’m sure I could find others as well if I actually searched, I’m going off the top of my head here and as I don’t own any Nintendo console I haven’t looked that much to see what is available on them…
And back on the N64 was Ocarina of Time not original for its time? I don’t think ANYONE other than Nintendo has done a game that comes even close to the Zelda type of gameplay just yet. Even the mighty Rare fell short in their attempt with that GC Starfox game. What about Mario 64 and Pilot Wings and Pokemon Snap (hey I hate Pokemon too but I can’t deny a new idea when I see it) or, um, just Pokemon in general as far as a new IP is concerned? Even Super Smash Bros was quite original, I mean, a fighting game with platform game elements, it felt quite unlike any other fighter… But again it used old Nintendo characters so it has to be bashed.
So, really, with games that did/do new things like that, why does it matter that many of them use old characters, they are just as good as a new IP in the innovation department. Would that Kong drumming game be any better if it was using some new characters? I highly doubt it.
I guess you could say Nintendo hasn’t made as many new things as Sega but in my eyes they certainly make up for it by the quality of both their new ideas and the improvements or simply great use of old ideas.
Bah, ok, I’m done replying about these subjects for real now… Must… Resist…
Well that’s speculative of what you said as you cannot proof either way that the interviewer added anything. it’s a presumption not a fact. After seeing the article, Panzer Dragoon is mentioned several times by the interviewer AND the Sega president, so it is CLEAR that Panzer Dragoon was the subject of an potential ip headed for Revolution.
To be fair though the guy said a game like ORTA wouldn’t be suitable on the NGC as the Xbox audience and nintendo’s are two different mindsets of gamers,or something along those lines.
Could you be bothered to write down the parts where PD was mentioned by eithe rof them?
What Gehn said, I only commented on the parts I actually saw and they didn’t indicate anything about PD being anything more than a mention by the author… Perhaps the full interview in Nintendo Power does have that, the quote you posted does not though and that’s what I was commenting on.
[quote]Shenmue is overrated and it cost so much money because of shitty management, not because the game really needed so much money to be created (I think Abadd was the one that confirmed this - don’t take my word on it though).
[/quote]
Agreed about part one (just becasue its far too short) Spot on too, there was some massive miss management with Shemue and the project at times seemed out of control.
But give SEGA some credit, For letting Yu make the game he wanted to make, and backing the project till the end , and even releasing part II on the DC (took balls that).
Modelling a world with that much detail . Where every character looks and dresses differently and speaks , almost any object can be examined , Weather that’s historical correct, full orchestra ect takes a lot of cash.
Though 70 million $ was just a bit over the top.
[quote]JSR was great but I guess you could bash them for cashing in on it on X-Box with that mindset that you are holding. But you won’t of course, cos you don’t hate Sega, only Nintendo
[/quote]
As with the case with Lobotomy, Sony M$ ect. They aren’t the ones going around they are the kings of originality., Nintendo are.
Shocking that when the likes of Capcom and SEGA for a start, have made more new IP .
[quote]Rez - well, no more Rez for Sega as the way they treat their developers they keep making them quit, its creator will probably make it for the 360 or something next (with a different name cos Sega has the rights to that - I’d like to see them try to surpass whatever the original creator will do).
[/quote]
Nobody was more upset than me , seeing the Genius that is Mizuguchi leave SEGA. I never wanted SEGA to shut UGA at all (They were SEGA version of Clover).
Still what’s new SEGA let the Creator of Panzer Dragoon go an closed down TA.Didn’t t stop Smilebit from doing a top update.
As far as I know only some of the Art Team left to go with Tetsuya.
So there is nothing stopping SEGA from doing a REZ II if they so wished. Part of the REZ Team (like with TA) are still in the SEGA group.
[quote]Butl, how about that Kong game with the drums that Nintendo did? Wasn’t that even more innovative since it wasn’t just about the music but also to actually control the on screen character using the drums?
[/quote]
True that’s really a top game too.
But where did NCL get the idea from ??.
If it wasn’t for Namco Taiko No Tatsujin or the Namco produced Konga . I doubt we would have seen that game at all.
But thast nick picking as the game just show NCL at thier best.
You mean the one made by Artoon :P.
And anyway it’s far easier to take risks on the GBA or DS. Give the low overheads and small teams needed to make GBA games.
Not the case on the Home Console, where NCL been far less willing to takes risks or make new IP (wonder why that is). Tilt motion is nothing new anyway as games like SEGA’s Getbass shows
Brill game NCL at thier very best. But again it’s on a HH (altter ported to Cube). Where is much easier to take risks (give the costs of development).
Of whichlike Wario and Animal Crossing I’ve given credit to NCL
No they were just taken into 3D That was the only original part of those games (brilliant though that that they were). What next Dark Saviour , Sonic Adv, GTA III , PSO are original games because they took their respected series of games into 3D , or in PSO case online ???.
The evidence is there mate. They haven’t made as many new IP as SEGA or the likes of Capcom this past couple of generations .
That’s fine is they just stopped talking at how they’re the kings of innovation or originality
But the point is that the guy who ‘invented’ it has his own company and WILL be making a sequel of it, albeit with a new name. Which would you rather see/get?
Yeah well it’s the same company and it shows creativity and when something is succesful it gets a “port” like wario ware and the four swords (which was originally a mini game in the snes zelda gba port)
Would you rather see them make foolish moves like Sega and have the same fate?
As for the developers talk of creativity, if you take such offense with that, how can you still be a sega fan with the outrageous comments the creators do about Shining Force Neo…
I’ve just learnt to ignore any announcement of the sort because everybody will just say the best things for his own company, always… There’s no reason to be upset over it, it’s all just PR… They are not the ones that will judge their games anyway, they are the ones that will advertise them, just like every creator.
Ocarina of Time was original because the gameplay wasn’t seen before, it wasn’t just changing the graphics, the gameplay is practically nothing like the 2D games what with the overhauled combat sequences and new riddles… The only thing they have similar is the storyline and the fact you visit dungeons etc. And, again, NOONE other than Nintendo has even come close to re-creating such great gameplay, the only two games I can think of are Ico and its upcoming “sequel” all these years after OOT appeared… Then Rare tried and Ubisoft with Beyond Good & Evil (great game) but they are not quite up to standard.
GTA III could be called original but a) the gameplay hasn’t changed that much, only the camera view and b) the possibilities the 3D environment offered to the game had been done before by other kinds of games.
But Ocarina of Time was an all new experience when it appeared, just like Mario 64 was.
Sonic Adventure wasn’t original cos there had been awesome 3D platform games before it, if anything it was a faster but flawed version of Mario 64 with nowhere near as fun gameplay…
Actually, PSO WAS kind of creative, atleast for consoles (it was a lot like Diablo II in many ways), show me another game that is like it… It also had nothing to do with the original Phantasy Star series, it’s by far NOT just taking the old PS and making it 3D/online (I wish it was!).
OOT wasn’t original because it was 3D, it was original because of its gameplay that no other game had recreated before that, not even the 2D Zeldas can compare to that.
Besides, now games have to be completely 100% new? That just can’t happen.
Sega’s most beloved and high caliber IPs are just using old things in great quality ways. What’s so original about Panzer Dragoon and even ShenMue? just because they tell the stories of new characters instead of old, they are original games? Their gameplay has been seen elsewhere more or less.
And to be honest, with Shenmue I’d have liked the game more if the story revolved around Virtua Fighter like it may have originally been planned with all the early talk about Virtua Fighter Quest long before ShenMue was announced - and no it wasn’t the GC Quest game, that one had realistic characters like ShenMue in the early concept shots…
Panzer Dragoon was a 3D version of Starfox/Space Harrier/AfterBurner and ShenMue was basically a character driven 3D adventure (or RPG maybe) game with some flawed real time battle sequences thrown in for good (?) measure. And no it wasn’t the first adventure/rpg/whatever that used real time battles either.
Even Rez wasn’t so original if you just look at the facts. Games that used rhythm and music have been done since years ago, Rez simply added that to a rail shooter style game which was even too basic for me…
So in the end it’s not so much originality that counts as to do what you do well, and Nintendo rarely disapoints in the quality aspect, atleast much less than most other companies…
Now… Stop… Making me… Have to… Reply… :anjou_embarassed:
[quote]But the point is that the guy who ‘invented’ it has his own company and WILL be making a sequel of it, albeit with a new name. Which would you rather see/get?
[/quote]
I’ll rather see SEGA Team up with Q to Produce a squeal. But SEGA holds the rights and like they done with Orta or Out Run II. They’re more than capable of producing a squeal if their Heart is there. Even if a lot of the teams that worked on the Originals have long since gone .
Speaking personally I have rather seen SEGA given the rights to Mizuguchi as some sort thanks for what he’s done for the corp , but business doesn’t work like that.
Either way I hope one day I get to see a REZ II.
[quote]Yeah well it’s the same company and it shows creativity and when something is succesful it gets a “port” like wario ware and the four swords (which was originally a mini game in the snes zelda gba port)
Would you rather see them make foolish moves like Sega and have the same fate?
As for the developers talk of creativity, if you take such offense with that, how can you still be a sega fan with the outrageous comments the creators do about Shining Force Neo…
I’ve just learnt to ignore any announcement of the sort because everybody will just say the best things for his own company, always… There’s no reason to be upset over it, it’s all just PR… They are not the ones that will judge their games anyway, they are the ones that will advertise them, just like every creator. [/quote]
Yeah and SEGA made a ton of creative Arcade games (even going as far a Dog walker) very easy in a market you control , or with out the costs of a big console production for the home.
As for being a fan of SEGA. Well being a fan doesn’t mean you have to sallow and agree with ever move they make.
I’ve been very critical of mess ups like the 32X, Game Gear, 3D Ages (to name but a few). Sometimes being critical and pointing out flaws is the best one to helpfull to somebody .
Also I’ve stayed out of the Neo argument for the most part . I’m not a massive fan of the series , but can see why people like Duke are upset. I hate the direction Sonic The Headehog is going for example.
I just want a Sonic game true to the series , Levels built around him and his speed, none of the tag or multi character rubbish.
And to me Sonic Fighters and Shadow the Hedgehog are a joke.
Given the completely none violent sprit of Sonic (where you never killed anything, only freed them.
SEGA fan or not I’m not happy about it, or the lack of Arcade ports.
And that all I want to say. As no doubt I’m doing your head in, as much as I’m doing mine in.
Plus I really don’t want to seem like I’m having a go at you ect.
Sure, just one thing…
Being confident that they will fail on anything they have planned next and trashing all the things they’ve said they want to do with mostly negative speculation more than anything else is by far NOT just being critical…
And by the way, the Hunters subtitle for Metroid was not because of the multiplayer plans, it was because of the storyline of the main game that has Shamus being, well, hunted by bounty, er, hunters. Yeah.
In all honesty, I would be quite happy if the new Panzer game happened to come out for the Revolution. Of the three next-generation consoles, the only one which really impresses me is the Revolution, and that’s mostly just because it’s geared towards simplicity, as well as the system of allowing you to play NES, SNES and N64 games. As of late, I’ve been feeling very nostalgic for the good ol’ days of video games, when small groups made games with originality and passion (such as Team Andromeda), rather than working on the latest Vin Diesel craptastic movie-game crossover abomination. I’m tired of these big companies who only entered the console gaming industry relatively recently (Microsoft and Sony) deciding that the best way to create a console is to give it an absurdly strong (and expensive) graphics chip, so that their ten thousandth rehash of Grand Theft Auto and countless racing games can feature even more stickers and decals on the cars. I’m tired of video game systems being treated as mini-PCs and loaded up with crap that jack up the price; I want something simple and non-expensive, which will offer pretty good visuals and great games. So, for me, the Revolution is the console of choice (if I had to choose any at all), and for them to bring Panzer Dragoon to the Revolution would be the deciding factor in what console, if any, I go with.
Though, of course, if they put it out on the Xbox 360 or PS3, I’ll be getting one of those, instead. The only reason I really bought an Xbox was for Orta (and Otogi).