Well I say once you take the cinematic component of an RPG it isn’t that good.
But well I rank plot very high so…
Non-linear RPG’s battles are random.
Isn’t that meant to be the other way round? Western RPGs tend to gravitate towards the non-linear side of the gameplay spectrum, and Japanese RPGs tend to be linear as a rule. That’s not to say linear RPGs are always bad, but I like to have at least some control over how a character evolves.
I want to see more RPGs with multiple (good and evil) routes through the game, which allow players to steer the course of the story. I’d rather be a participant in a game than someone who is just along for the ride, wouldn’t you?
Anachronox by Ion Storm Dallas was linear and very very sweet 
Also, I don’t see what the problem with non linear stories is. If you play it once only or if you play it the same way everytime then the story is going to be linear to you. For someone who wants more than that the choice is there though. And that’s only good. Think of it like the different paths of PDZwei, if each path ended up in a little different cut scene or different next level. Would it be a bad aspect of the game or would it actually make it better by adding much more replayability and more ways to play the game the way you want because of your personality? That’s basically what they do except for RPGs…
Though tbh for a PD RPG I’d like no matter what route you take through the game (assuming ofcourse it will be non linear) the conclusion to be more or less the same so that we won’t be doing theories and speculations about an ending that the next game in the series will discart completelly in favor of another one. Or maybe a better idea than one ending alone would be to make it so it’s very obvious which is the “correct ending” and which are the “lesser ones” (Kind of like knowing the Blue Dragon ending of PDZ is the “correct ending”)
[quote=“Geoffrey Duke”]
Isn’t that meant to be the other way round?[/quote]
Lol.Sorry my mistake.Switch East with West and vice versa.
The thing is, “cinematic” can be done without the use of CG cutscenes. Take a look at Ico. The entire game is cinematic, from start to finish. Take a look at Halo. Same thing. I can go on and on.
Games need to find their own means of expression unique to the medium, otherwise they will continue to be viewed as a “lesser” medium, trying to play catch-up with the more mainstream mediums. Until movies found a voice that couldn’t be duplicated in books and plays, it was considered a novelty. Games will continue to be considered as toys until there is enough content out there that has a specific reason for being a game, rather than a movie.
I think the game industry is good as it is in that last aspect.
Yes I know what you mean be cinematic but I don’t agree that a FMV based videogame is less profund.
I’m not sure if it means much but I was looking about on some other forums and there was a discussion about Saga. This guy posted who obviously had know clue what Saga was but he may have accidentally stumbled onto something because he posted this.
“I don’t think this game’s not even released in Japan. I saw a preview of it in some Japanese magazine a month ago but that was it. It’s not a shooter tho. It’s a strategy/RPG type of game.”
Maybe I just don’t get it but… What is it that you think he might have “Stumbled onto”
Panzer Dragoon Saga was a HUGE innovation - and more importantly, it was an entirely new concept. People can go ahead and spout all their nonsense about what their favorite games are - I’ve played most of them, and I can honestly say that there has NEVER been a game that has moved or inspired me as much as Panzer Dragoon Saga did.
Even though PDS was a failure in Japan, I am still so amazed that the battle system and game concept have not been used by others as of this writing. They either don’t know how to program a game of that calibre - or they’re simply dead set in their ways of producing crap and have no desire of getting out of that hole. One thing I have noticed is that East and West both have something in common - their games are dull, not well thought out, and have stupid plots. The VG business definitely needs a new paridigm shift.
You need to play more games Kadamose.
I’m a pirate and have access to over 10,000 games - I have all of the games for the Sega CD, Saturn, PC-Engine/Turbo Duo, 3DO, CD-I, and all of the other classic systems. I can honestly tell you that I’ve played more games than anyone here - and PDS is easily the king of them all.
Makes me wonder why you STEAL all those games and give the developers nothin for their effort if you think all of them are so crap. And if you’ve played all those games then you need to get out more. Seriously. Maybe there aren’t real life catgirls like you wish for from all your date sims but I tell ya real girls can be fun too.
Anyway we’ve had this discussion before so please don’t bring it on every single topic, yes we know of your opinion on how all games suck and that no game will ever be good again until we have virtual reality or rather until we create living breathing catgirls with nanotechnology so there’s no need to express it on every chance you get. Everyone here disagreed with you, you can either think we are dumb and leave these forums or you can just chose to not annoy every single person here by stating that opinion every chance you get. Yes we have freedom of speech here but when it’s been discussed before and you saw that it’s all subjective and that even if you don’t like other games everyone else here does like them there’s no need to start the cycle all over again.
And for the record I’ve seen better battle systems than PD, it was very limited, it had basically no use for the defensive berserks, the items were just as useless and in general it was so unbalanced that a total newbie could finish the game without even knowing what experience points are. I know I didn’t, it was my first real RPG.
One such better battle system is the Shining Force series battle system or the Tactics Ogre series battle system or the Final Fantasy Tactics battle system. More depth than anything out there (especially on FFT’s case) and perfectly balanced maintaining a good challenge throughout the game. All skills usefull too. and HUGE customization possible.
So, really, we get the point, you love PD, so do we, no reason to go overkill with statements like OMFG BEST THING EVER IN EVERY SINGLE ASPECT, when, frankly it’s either that you are wrong since every single person out there disagrees with you, or that it’s a very subjective thing therefor it’s an opinion rather than a fact as you keep claiming like you know everything cos you are God or something. Take your pick, are you wrong, or is it subjective. No matter what you pick it’s obvious you should stop acting like what you say is fact. It’s not. And stop repeating >_>
I am ‘God’ as far as I am concerned (personally, I think people who believe in such manmade concepts are S-T-U-P-I-D).
Might not mean much but the point is that he found SOME preview for SOME game that has to do with Panzer Dragoon in SOME japanize magazine.
[quote=“TheCygnus”]I’m not sure if it means much but I was looking about on some other forums and there was a discussion about Saga. This guy posted who obviously had know clue what Saga was but he may have accidentally stumbled onto something because he posted this.
“I don’t think this game’s not even released in Japan. I saw a preview of it in some Japanese magazine a month ago but that was it. It’s not a shooter tho. It’s a strategy/RPG type of game.”[/quote]
I think he was just talking about the new Shining Force games.
I’m not saying a story is less profound because it’s not interactive. I’ve seen plenty of movies that have made me think, moved me to tears, or have otherwise enriched me. I’ve also read books that have done the same, and I’ve played some games (albeit only as many that I could count on one hand) that moved me as well.
However, what I’m saying is that games need to find their unique voice. They need to find what it is about their medium, and exploit it. Otherwise, games will never advance. The graphics will get better, the battle systems may get more complex… but you’ll never have another unique experience.
Panzer Saga WAS NOT a huge innovation… it just did what other RPGs were doing and did it better. It told a story that could have been told in a book, a movie, or an anime, but allowed you to interact with some parts of it. It had a battle system that could be argued as innovative, but it was still based around old constructs: random encounter, turn-based (even though you’ve got time bars, it’s not “real time” in the true sense of the word), etc. etc.
As for the guy who claims to have stumbled on a strategy/RPG game from Sega… I can guarantee that whatever it is, it’s not a PD game, so don’t get your hopes up.
Kadamose, you go on and on about how grand PDS was and how nothing has ever come close to it’s quality. Care to explain what about it was so splendid? Not to detract anything from its quality, but I fail to see why you think PDS is some pinnacle of perfection, never again to be reached by mortal minds. I don’t mean to instigate this any further, because god knows (it’s just a saying, I’m not referring to you) that nobody is going to change your mind. I’m just really, really perturbed by your claims and your constant assurance that the rest of humanity is stupid, that catgirls are the next big thing, and whatever else your mind thinks up.
Oh, and pirates are asses.
Am I the only one here who doens’t knwo what a catgirl is?
Or is that literal as far as meaning is concerned? 
Abadd define unique experience?
I dunno what you actually expect from videogames (granted that im nuts for them myself) but from my view point I think that games have gone thru revolutions every year even if they are small things.
And about PDS’s originality : I really don’t find it very original myself.I just think already known things were adepted to the PD universe.Like for example the navigational system (the way you interact with things).
Well, it’s true that the battle system and the random battles etc were not new inventions - however, it’s how they were used that makes them so special. The gameplay is not what makes PDS so great though - it was the marvelous story and character development! Everything was so well layed out, plot wise, that there was never a dull moment in the game and every second was savored. Can you honestly tell me that you’ve ever played a game that you not only enjoyed from beginning to end - but it also left you with a craving for more? I doubt you can name one (no offense, if you do name one, it will probably some braindead response like Final Fantasy or some other mainstream garbage).
It’s the most imaginitave universe I have ever seen - and not only that, but the Panzer world is a literal hell - it’s not a happy place at all. This, alone, gets major browny points.
Nah, we’re quite cool people, actually. We just learned a long time ago that it’s stupid to pay $50 for a game (kinda like how it’s stupid to pay $20 for a stupid music CD).
If these stupid video game companies would lower their prices to say - $10 a game - they would literally sell millions of copies and reach a MUCH wider userbase.
But let it be known that I do buy the games I’m interested in - I bought an Xbox for Panzer Dragoon Orta only. I will only support the developers who DESERVE to be supported - just because you’re a developer and you decide tomake a crappy game does not mean that you deserve profit. You reap what you sow, and the piracy ‘problem’ is just another way for us common folk to say ‘screw you’ to these types of developers.
Your last point is a lame excuse actually, if the game is so bad it’s not worth money then don’t play it at all. Pirating it means you wanna play it for WHATEVER reason (time killing, whatever) and WHATEVER that reason is you should pay for it. Any “reason” not to is just an excuse.
And btw the way battles were used in PDS wasn’t any different at all from other RPGs.
Also, why the hell do you ask him that question about the game if you are ready to say that WHATEVER he answers is WRONG before he’s even said it?
My guess is one of the games he will mention is going to be ICO and that’s not mainstream at all. Mute point. Mainstream doesn’t instantly mean crap anyway >> pizza is mainstream, everybody loves it <<
Objection your honor!Tuna just sucks!!Either in italian or american ones!
[quote=“Kadamose”]
I’m a pirate and have access to over 10,000 games - I have all of the games for the Sega CD, Saturn, PC-Engine/Turbo Duo, 3DO, CD-I, and all of the other classic systems. I can honestly tell you that I’ve played more games than anyone here - and PDS is easily the king of them all.[/quote]
AAh but do you have acess to Teletext games??