well, i know some person(s) here have already played the japanese version but it just recently came out in north america. so here we can discuss favorite characters, the amazing art direction of the game, how to get a certain item, how to beat a certain boss, why doesn’t raikoh ever say anything, and wether seimei is supposed to be a guy or a girl.
i was delighted to see the crimson king return (it shows him in the opening movie - i haven’t gotten to him in the game yet), his hair looked a lot cooler.
was the forest of havoc was in the japanese version?
anyone else think kintoki is totally wack? maybe he is just built for those specifically buttonmasher levels but he can’t seem to do half the crap the others can… i guess he still has some value.
tsuna and raikon are good stuff, suetake is also coo but i don’t have any amazing spells for the spellcasters yet : /
Yeah I just got Otogi 2 also and the game is awesome. Its artistic stye rivals the first in every single way. Its just beauty and art in motion. Everything is so destructible and that’s a good thing. I was playing the game and while using Seimei I grabbed this fox demon boss and through him through multiple destructible objects, as he smashed to the ground with incredible impact, just incredible(I thought to myself, just like Dragon Ball Z). I have yet to beat 2 more levels and the completion of Havoc mode before im finished with the game. I also have a great amount of items and weapons to find in all the levels. But hay that’s replay value for you.
You just have to know how to use Kintoki. If you do, he can kick some major arse (well, pretty much anyone can).
Kintoki’s major advantages are the fact that all of his hits act as heavy attacks (meaning: they cause enemies to go flying away), and he can grab/throw. Not to mention that he should be able to kill any enemy with a few swings…
Recommendation: Use him against the headless horseman boss. You should be able to get him off his horse in a couple of hits. The hard part is when he starts jumping on top of the platforms, but in that case, just pick up the random skeletons appear, and throw them into the platforms. That’ll make them collapse, causing him to fall to the ground.
Well I just recently beat Otogi 2 and have yet to beat stage 18 in havoc mode. I need a great amount of gold to get the moon drop. This item will allow me to get the moonlight sword from the first Otogi. I need this sword to fight a certain someone in stage 18 of havoc mode. I was just wondering, what is the best stage to aquire great sums of gold in one go( with the jade goblet equiped of course)?
alright, kintoki’s ok. when you need to get a lot of power out of one hit (example: kudara and adara) he’s my go to guy. but really, all you need is raikoh and tsuna
i’ve beaten it twice now with the weaker and tougher endings. do you get anything for 100% souls on all levels? cause i kinda did that (thank’s tsuna) and i didn’t get anything >:O
the crimson king was delightfully extremely hard (mainly because i was astounded by his hair and general badass-ness). i had noticed that one of raikoh’s shoulder pad horns was belonged to the crimson king before he spelled it out for you
haven’t heard, gehn.
so how bad is this game selling? there is very little comotion about it, but it is truly one of the greatest games of our times. really visionary, very beautiful.
Well, I don’t think that Otogi 2 is doing too well. It was very popular in Japan though. Well, I can see why it’s not selling well, for one thing there hasn’t been any ads or commercials. I think most American’s minds have been so corrupted with all of these violent games that have been coming out like grand theft auto and many more I can’t think of right now, that a lot of people forget that there are games with more feeling and soul, that are truly worth playing, because they have originality contained within them, not just thoughtless violence and blood shed. Games like Otogi 2 will never sell well because most people can’t handle a game that has such beauty and thought put into it. They just want to play the same repetitive game that has come out a thousand times. So my main point is that there are too many violent games out there that have no real purpose but to keep the gamer coming back to the same damn thing again and again with no thought or feeling put into it. One example of this is Silent Hill Grand Theft Auto, and Resident Evil. I mean how many of these games are going to be made. Almost every game is almost exactly the same as the last. This must end! There aren’t enough original ideas for games any more. I mean look at the recent Tokyo Game show, almost all of the games were sequels, Good God, what is happening? And many people get drawn into that endless cycle never to realize there are better games out there like Otogi 2. I’m sorry to tell you but I have woken up and only play games that are truly worth playing.
http://www.retroandhelix.0catch.com/iamryo.jpg
I am Ryo and you all will feel my power once I unlock the secrets of the mirrors… and about the ultimate power of the mirrors…I’m getting to that…but once I find it out ,prepare yourselves!
We need more visionaries like Yu Sasuki and Hayao Miyazaki in the video gaming world. Fresh new ideas and story lines that have never been attempted before. Video games as a whole are on a decline and this decline will soon lead to their ultimate demise if something is not done about their present state.
as much as i like games, i am continually disappointed to see a lack of revolutionary concepts. as great as otogi is, it doesn’t stray from this either. it seems like people just have certain things ingrained in their mind about how things should control, how things should work. they see that as the right way, but no one sees how ineffective that way is.
take sports games, those games play nothing like the actual sport, you are not one of the players down there, you are a godly figure presiding over the entire team. football plays more akin to a warped version of frogger than anything else.
or look at first person shooters, you are not a person as the genre name implies, the controls and abilities concocted for first person shooters would fit more in a game where you play as a turret on wheels. there are so many things they could do to give you more of the abilities that you SHOULD rightfully be able to do if you WERE playing as a person (or at least humanoid).
i see games as an art form- not just that they are artistic or have art in them, but that the effects of intuitive gameplay and player interaction is something that should be considered art. with that gaming philosophy, it is my dream to be the salvador dali of game development.
I’d have to disagree. I think this time now is showing just as much innovation as when games were in their infancy.
BETTER GAMEPLAY
Games are obviously much more sophisticated than they could ever have been previously which has lead to much more exciting possibilities. Despite that you seem to rue it, Grand Theft Auto should be applauded for helping in spearheading the popularity of more open ended gameplay. Or is it the art direction and story choices with which you hold issue? In which case you couldnt say Morrowind or Fable were leading the industry to self-destruction, even though I would argue they draw from fantasy cliche’ just as much as GTA draws from Urban Crime cliche’.
The stealth genre for one has been an exciting emerging category of gameplay. Sophistication in technology and game design has seen these type of games come leaps and bounds, from the “cones of vision” of Metal Gear Solid to Splinter Cells more realistic approach (I suppose I could call it that despite the light meters and the like).
Or how about fighting games of today? Today were can move about not only horizontally and vertically but take advantage of the depth of the arenas. Or, again, is it the stories you have issues with? Well I never remeber the street fighters of old having sophisticated storytelling in game, or at all for that matter. Besides, with some games it’s solely gameplay, who gives a crap whether these avatars have motive for beating up one another?
THE INDUSTRY
Or is it the me-to philososphy of the industry? Granted it is disappointing to see so many cookie cutters out there, but by no means do I have to buy them. In fact I feel, as I know you all do, in knowing the difference between what makes good games and what shit ones lack. Further it is not like bad games are “killing” good games. Players today, depending on what they have access to, can be literally swamped in excellent games. I have a good dozen or so to play through that I already own, not to mention the ones I look forward to or the classics Im yet to experience. Might I also add that back in the earlier days of gaming cookie cutters games existed then. some could argue they were worse back then. For every Mario on NES there were several dozen imitators. For every Defender on an Atari there were an insane number of clones. And let’s not ignore the cynic in all of us, and acknowledge that this is a business and some bastards are just out to make a buck and ignore any idea of gaming being an art.
CONTROLS
The control-to-immersion complaint was raised. But dont havent we seen the greatest attempts to improve this. Granted one could dismiss them as novelties and not at all at the point of “revolutionising” games, but its certainly more than we had previously. Eye-toy, control your movements with body movements. Now that’s an ambitious concept, granted the execution is limited but you cant complain that theyre not trying (on a side note, didn’t SEGA trythis back in the MegaDrive/Genesis days with a peripheral called “the activator” or something?).
As for the FPS thing, the are ideas out there. We all know that VR is dead. Motion sickness and huge hardware costs make it unfeasible. Well here in Oz an educational institute were developing something called AR. Players are equipped with backpack mobile computers, a visor and light guns. The game developed to test this interface is a tweaked Quake, Quake AR. Players face off against Shamblers and Imps in their local street or park or whereever they may be. So there may lie the answer to your qualms about immersion in FPS. Yes, it is totally impractical to drag a computer around on yer back, but imagine the day when you could plug in a visor and a light gun into your mobile phone or pocket PC and lay some hellspawn to waste? That’s innovative, revolutionary perhaps.
WHAT IS REVOLUTIONARY?
I think in todays gaming the “revolutionary advances” are less obvious, mostly cos they cant be witnessed by the eye. Advanced AI that learns your tactics and creates strategies accordingly, or persistent game worlds where you can truly make an effect on the virtual world are much more subtle to the untrained eye than, I dont know, the introduction of FMV. Remember how “revolutionary” the MEGA/SEGA CD’s video capabilities were? Despite the fact they took gameplay backwards. Rebel Assault amazed us all in the day even though it tooks us back to the gameplay principles of Dragon Lair.
SKEPTICISM AND CYNICISM
This talk of the games industry going to the dogs is unfounded. As games increase in sophistication they can only offer more and these doomsday ramblings is nothing but counter-productive. More things can be achieved in games today, games have just as much if not more ability to affect us personally perhaps in ways we’d had never imagined. And as for the “mainstream gamer ruingin the industry” paranoia, bah! Today we see much more varied genres and styles available than ever and the independent developer scene is just as strong as ever in the PC mod community.
The present for gaming is burning bright and the future look to blind us.
(I edited my rant under headings so as to hopefully make it more readable)
I sincerely agree with you Megatherium. I also believe we need more realistic player interaction. The player needs more control to feel like they are actually participating in whatever game they play. I mean the only game I ever felt like I myself was actually a part of, was Elemental Gearbolt for playstation. With this game the Namco Guncons were required to play. By actually holding a gun in my hand and shooting what ever I saw come at me, I felt like I was really there ( I also felt like I was flying around through the levels in my chair LOL ). But the closest thing to the player actually being a part of the game would have to be Virtual Reality which hasn’t even become a reality yet. But hay I think you should try Elemental Gearbolt out, it goes for about 45-50 bucks on ebay and you can get a Guncon for like 20 bucks. It’s worth it though. It’s world greatly resembles Panzers, and its really fun to play with the Guncons with two players.
http://www.retroandhelix.0catch.com/iamryo.jpg
I am Ryo and you all will feel my power once I unlock the secrets of the mirrors… and about the ultimate power of the mirrors…I’m getting to that…but once I find it out ,prepare yourselves!
Did you ignore my post? I mentioned this experiment into AR gaming, a merging of real world interaction and gaming. The control interface gives a sense of roleplay from the gamer as they are physically moving around a real physical environ.
Ill dig up the article on it and scan in the pictures so you may better understand me.
There are certain styles of games that need the old bread and butter control pad. how on earth do you propose you could manipulate characters from Ninja Gaiden or Prince of Persia to do what they do?
Legaia : I don’t think such games are in anyway more fun than regularly controlled games.
I don’t think the industry si going downwards in terms of quality either.
I do agree tho that Otogi 2 (even tho I haven’t payed it) could have a lot of relatively easy to program additions that would severely improve the gameplay.
More combos and a system that would actually makes us feel like we were hitting enemies (just try killing an enemy I Ninja Gaiden and killing one in Otogi and youll see what I’m talking about).
The opportunity for new innovations and ideas is here in this new age of gaming, but it just isn’t happening yet. For instance there are just too many sequels coming out and little innovation contained within them. As technology advances and graphics become more real, future games wont last as long they will be shorter. And like I said games are just getting too repetitive. And how much better can games actually get. What will happen after the next gen systems come out and the next gen systems after that, when video games will look totally real? For one thing look at Nintendo, they make Mario after Mario, Zelda after Zelda, Metroid after Metroid. They are all basically the same damn game just with improved graphics. How many times is Mario going to save the princess, how many times is link going to defeat Ganon, how many times is Samus going to explore new planets using the same weapons from previous games? What few games that come out with innovation and deep artistic style like Shenmue, Otogi , Panzer Dragoon Orta, just get pushed aside and neglected.
For instance if you look at Otogi 2 it has the upmost beautiful graphics I have ever seen. This game shows you just what todays technology can do. But look how short the game was. Do you think next gen games are going to be any diff. With new technology will come shorter games. I mean look at Fable it took 5 years to make that world lush and alive and look how short that game was, it’s rediculous!
[quote=“PanzerPants”]
BETTER GAMEPLAY
Games are obviously much more sophisticated than they could ever have been previously which has lead to much more exciting possibilities.[/quote]
modern gaming is definitely bringing new things to the table, and there are some neat concepts that certain games employ in effective ways. i think that my main problem is that gameplay is not viewed enough as an art in itself. i do not think the answer is to make utterly ridiculous games for the sake of being different (that’s been tried), but to think up new ways of doing something that would allow for the most freedom. and it is in that sense that i think developers are failing miserably. they can add as many gimmicks into the forumla as they want, but they aren’t truly developing anything.
you had me with morrowind, but fable… no
morrowind, while still employing orcs and empires, was quite original in the rest of its endeavors. the mythology and history created to back the world, the relationships between various groups, the politics and developments were all very well thought out. bethesda brought a new method of storytelling to games and while it is a good one, it only works for a particular type of game.
fable was dumb. i abhor peter molyneaux’s simplistic view of “good & evil”. he is no philosopher and therefore should not pollute the subject with his sophomoric views. but perhaps i am taking it too personally… perhaps he was not trying to deliver an intellectual thesis, perhaps he just wanted to make a game where you got to play as one of the chao from sonic adventure 2. in anycase, i don’t think any developers should look to fable for “a way to do things right”.
fighting games have stagnated, the ability to sidestep was implemented a few generations ago and nothing new has really been added. i consider 2D and 3D fighters to be 95% identical because, beyond the back/foreground movement the input is the same.
virtual on was the path with the most potential but that series looks just about dead (thanks to marz).
it is true that people sometimes unfairly blame successful games as being direct attacks on the niche games. and while this isn’t true exactly, there is some relevence. as you said, this is an industry and like all industries, money drives it. so when games start selling millions of copies, that raises the bar for everyone else. but to make this make sense, we have to look at the market and the market, unfortunately, is controlled by people who are not concerned with artistic quality. imagine a scenario where a museum curator has to bring in a new exhibit and they can either show a series of rennisance pieces or they can show giant smut posters. now obviously, the meseum might bring in more patrons if they plastered pornography through the halls, but those patrons would most likely be the raucus football fan type and perverts. now even if the curator saw that there was a smaller group of devoted art fans, he has to consider the fact that the museum has bills to pay to keep from closing down. congratulations on surviving one of my demented analogies.
[quote=“PanzerPants”]CONTROLS
The control-to-immersion complaint was raised. But dont havent we seen the greatest attempts to improve this. Granted one could dismiss them as novelties and not at all at the point of “revolutionising” games, but its certainly more than we had previously.[/quote]
the eyetoy is not what i had in mind. the change i seek is not a change in the controller, but a change in the games. wether you are pressing buttons, pulling triggers, or doing the hokey-pokey is only half of the equation; the gameplay on the receiving end needs to be revolutionized to back it up.
VR is also not what i had in mind. when a dev sets out to make a game that is intended to simulate something, shouldn’t they take into account all that is done in the actual practice? i will provide one of many examples of the shortcomings of first person shooters:
the game is programmed with directional sound so that sounds occuring to my left will come out of the left speakers. the game is also programmed to vibrate the controller on the side correlating with the direction that the event which caused the vibration came from. those were nice features since the 120 degree (or however many it is) view is so limiting. but now the problem comes down to the fact that in real life, if i sensed something from a direction other than in front of me, i could snap towards that direction and be ready to fire in a split second. that is not how it works in most first person shooters (much to my dismay). in reality, you could be sprinting in one direction then nearly instantaneously look back and fire off a few rounds without losing any speed. in an FPS, you have to move your view control either left or right until you have done a 180 while simultaneously doing a 180 with your movement control. not only is that awkward, unnecessarily complex, and (relatively) time consuming, but running backwards often times comes with a loss of speed.
[quote=“PanzerPants”]SKEPTICISM AND CYNICISM
This talk of the games industry going to the dogs is unfounded. As games increase in sophistication they can only offer more and these doomsday ramblings is nothing but counter-productive. More things can be achieved in games today, games have just as much if not more ability to affect us personally perhaps in ways we’d had never imagined. And as for the “mainstream gamer ruingin the industry” paranoia, bah! Today we see much more varied genres and styles available than ever and the independent developer scene is just as strong as ever in the PC mod community.[/quote]
we walk a fine line between critique and self-righteousness
i personally see many untapped concepts, and a reluctance (development-side) to try mature ideas (i don’t mean sex and violence, i mean well thought out and well reasoned ideas). i volunteer this idea of dubious worth: the majority of the current videogame market appears to be comprised of the teen movie and action movie fans of the film audience. the difference is that the film audience has a portion that appreciates david lynch and charlie kaufman but the game industry has not such portion to appreciate their would-be equivalents.
You’re referring to a lack of innovation in terms of plot and and artistic style, which I can agree with. Thing is, each of those series has featured some mind-blowingly original gameplay if you can look past the standard franchise shell. Look at Ocarina of Time, Metroid Prime, Mario 64. When each of those came out they were like nothing else around. Seems to me that Nintendo uses their big name franchises to shield themselves so that they can make innovative games and not have to worry about them selling well.
). But the closest thing to the player actually being a part of the game would have to be Virtual Reality which hasn’t even become a reality yet. But hay I think you should try Elemental Gearbolt out, it goes for about 45-50 bucks on ebay and you can get a Guncon for like 20 bucks. It’s worth it though. It’s world greatly resembles Panzers, and its really fun to play with the Guncons with two players.