Crayman or Edge?
I believe it’s Edge seeing how in the US and PAL versions of Saga Azel falls for him and Orta apparently has adapted those versions’ translations as the “correct” ones, though thinking up of how it may also be Craymen is quite interesting…
I prefer the Edge theory, but, why did the seekers lock her up if she was Edge’s child?
Here’s a thought. If the English version of the PDO plot follows on from the English version of the PDS plot - where Azel did grow to love Edge - then how does the Japanese version of the PDO plot explain who Orta’s parents are? Does it also imply that Edge is her father, even though Azel didn’t love him in their version of events? Or does it explain Orta’s origins in some different way… that she was just created by Azel alone, for example?
Does anyone know this?
I honestly think that it’s Craymen. In the Japanese version of PDS, Azel does not fall for Edge at all - her feelings, even toward the end of the game, are directed toward Craymen. If Edge was the one who woke her up, initially, the chances of a love connection are probable - but this is not the case. The love connection between Azel and Edge was simply added into the translation, due to both mistranslation, and the opinion of the translator that Edge and Azel should be a couple. But in the scope of things, Azel remained loyal to Craymen, even after his demise.
Many people claim that the explosion toward the end, when Azel opens the Gateway to Sestren, is the Tower being destroyed…and Craymen’s remains with it. But if that were the case, Azel would have been destroyed, as well. Which leads me to believe that the explosion was not the destruction of the Tower…but actually a teleportation of some kind, that transported everyone, including the Tower and Craymen’s remains, into Sestren.
Another reason why I think that Craymen is the father of Orta, is the fact that Edge was completely blind to the world around him - he was not aware that the world was dying; The best description for Edge would be a naive youth. Craymen, on the other hand, sought to heal the world, and Azel believed in his goals. Therefore, it’s safe to say that she created Orta from his genes, in hopes that Orta would continue what Craymen could not finish, himself.
If Azel didn’t love Edge, why did she go off into the desert to look for him?
You could say that she wasn’t really in search of Edge, but then she would just seem stupid and suicidal.
[quote=“Dopefish”]If Azel didn’t love Edge, why did she go off into the desert to look for him?
You could say that she wasn’t really in search of Edge, but then she would just seem stupid and suicidal.[/quote]
EDIT You beat me to it, Dopefish 
I was just about to post…
Come to think of it, does anyone know what the Japanese ending of PDS was meant to mean? For instance, why was Azel setting off into the desert if she wasn’t looking for Edge? Was she just heading away in search of a peaceful, independant life in their version?
MORE EDITING Without more evidence, I guess we can’t be sure exactly how “foolish” Azel’s journey was in the original version of events. Her motivations could have been anything, and her destination could have been a lot more definite - perhaps she was going to try and meet up with Gash and the Seekers, or something similar?
Who says she was in the Desert looking for Edge? It’s not mentioned in the game, and is just pure speculation on the player’s part.
The ending cinema scene, simply shows her looking at a child…which gives her the idea to create Orta. At this point in time, her ‘search’ is initially over, and she’s pretty much given up. She was not searching for Edge - she was simply trying to find a way to finish what Craymen started. And as we all know - Orta was her final answer.
By the way, the supposed ‘Tower’ in Episode 6 of PDO, is also located in a desert…which was probably where Azel was headed in that final cinema scene of PDS.
I agree that we should be careful about imposing the English storyline onto the original version of events. As Abadd mentioned in that other thread, PDS was rewritten as much as it was translated. That isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but we should definitely keep that in mind.
As far as I remember, it was in a reasonably verdant mountain region, not a desert at all… I’m also quite convinced that it was not a Tower, mainly because the Towers are meant to have been taken totally offline following the deactivation of the Heresy Program. The PDO Episode 6 ruin is very much active, however.
Personnally I think that Orta’s father was Edge, although there are some good arguments for it being Craymen. I think that it looks like she was supposed to have feelings for Edge even in the Japanese version just from the way she acts around him, you don’t have to know what they are saying in japanese, you can tell from the way they move and the tones voice they speak in. Also, you have to remember that the final scene was all in Panzerese, so I don’t think that any of the dialouge in it would have been mistranslated.
[quote=“Lance”]
As far as I remember, it was in a reasonably verdant mountain region, not a desert at all… I’m also quite convinced that it was not a Tower, mainly because the Towers are meant to have been taken totally offline following the deactivation of the Heresy Program. The PDO Episode 6 ruin is very much active, however.[/quote]
Oh, I agree completely that it’s definitely not a Tower - hence the reason why I said supposed ‘Tower’ - the reason why I said it to begin with, was because in some of my recent arguments, some people pointed out that the ruins in PDO, where Orta was created, was definitely a Tower.
And the cinema scene for Episode 6, clearly shows a domed ruin, surrounded by lots of sand.
Well, it’s true that there’s very little room for error on the translation for the final cinema scene…but the only thing that is said is from the elder of the village who says that the storms around that region were getting worse, even though monster populations had severely decreased. He basically warns Azel not to go any further - but she does not comply and rides into the storm. There is no mention of Edge, or anyone else, in the final dialogue. The BIG clue in the final cinema, is how Azel stares at the child she bumps into - watch it again, and you’ll understand. The ‘stare’ sequence is quite powerful - at first glance, one would come to the conclusion that Azel is having maternal instincts that she never knew she had. But remember, drones could not reproduce by design, and therefore, I doubt she would have such a longing for a child in the first place.
A good point - though can we be sure what the translation was based upon? I’d always assumed that the translator (Chris Lucich?) had based his work on the Japanese subtitles, rather than the spoken words, Panzerese or otherwise. I’d be interested to find out the details of this.
Aren’t the cinematics and cutscenes the same in both Jap and Pal/NTSC/US versions?!Geez this gets me confused.I mean how can so much thing change.
Azel loves Craymen.
I’m 99% sure Edge’s is her “father”.
Hmm. Well, I’ve just checked that scene out - Episode 6 Event 1, from Pandora’s Box - and I’m sure that what we see is a domed ruin, surrounded by lots of grass and mountains. It doesn’t look much like a desert as far as I can tell; deserts aren’t so… green, surely?
Chris Lucich wasn’t the translater, but rather the person given the task of rewriting a direct translation of Japanese text. The Panzerese spoken in the introduction sequence and the ending was dubbed with Japanese sub-titles as well.
The Panzer Dragoon Saga script was quite accurate apparently, apart from the addition of the Azel/Edge love plot. Even Abadd (the poster) stated that although Azel never expressed her love for Edge, those feelings may have been inevitable. Still, nowhere in the Japanese version of Panzer Dragoon Saga does Azel declare her love for Edge.
In the ending cinematic Anjou asks Azel if the person she is searching for is really worth dying for. The fact that Orta was “the answer to her fruitless searches” and the fact Edge was the only human to visit Sestren firmly supports the theory she was in fact searching for Edge but only managed to acquire his DNA.
where in the japanese version does Azel say “craymen wa aishite iru?”
the “love” you mean is more the love for a father than for a partner.
in the ending sequence she says in japanese (literally):
“honestly… I don’t want to be alone anymore. Only … I …”
I think it is pretty obvious that Edge as “the human who remained in Sestren” is supposed to be the genetic father of Orta.
[quote=“Geoffrey Duke”]
Chris Lucich wasn’t the translater, but rather the person given the task of rewriting a direct translation of Japanese text. The Panzerese spoken in the introduction sequence and the ending was dubbed with Japanese sub-titles as well.[/quote]
Sorry, just a bad choice of words on my part; I’ve checked out that earlier thread already, and I know that what we have in the PDS script is more of a rewrite than a normal translation would be. My point was, as you say, that the Panzerese must have been subtitled as well. It’s still a made-up language, after all, and Japanese gamers can’t be expected to understand it that much better than we can
My thoughts exactly. Though it’s interesting to speculate about these things, I can’t help but think that the most obvious answer is also the intended one in this case.
Dialogue aside, Azel did seem to be growing increasingly attached to Edge towards the end of PDS. Perhaps, as Abadd said in that other topic, Azel’s feelings for Edge were inevitable, if far more subtle in the original version.
Edge has ginger hair right? Well, Orta has ginger eyebrows, suggesting she had ginger hair at some point.
When I replayed PDS recently (while I was working on the music video) I paid more attention to the spoken dialogue than I did the first time, because I had since taken a little Japanese. LordCraymen’s translation is right. Azel doesn’t say anything beyond “Only I…” But it’s quite obvious she’s trailing off and hasn’t finished expressing her thoughts.
Also, it’s not very common to bluntly say “ai shiteiru” in Japanese. Azel, who is rather reserved and probably uncertain about the very non-dronelike emotions she’s feeling, would likely not use “ai shiteiru” even if she did recognize her feelings as love. I think that if Azel later had a chance to express her feelings to Edge, it probably wouldn’t go past “dai suki” (“really like”) as far as the Japanese dialogue would be concerned.