NiGHTS 2

SEGA
81

My point wasn’t really whether or not the original was great, it was about how critics change their tune all the time.

Now… they reflect upon Nights as if it were a deity… however when it came out they claimed it was average.

The same thing happened with Panzer Dragoon Saga and Gunstar Heroes, which just reinforces the fact that the majority of reviews are entirely subjective, you may not be able to polish a turd, but you can certainly tarnish a jewel.

However I claim that it doesn’t really matter what other people like, and people who actually think that they are better because they like something that another person doesn’t… are really a can short of a six pack, as it were.

I don’t assume people who like Sonic are in some way inferior to myself despite the fact that I personally dislike Sonic.

82

The original Nights came out against Super Mario 64. Even though I personally enjoyed Nights about ten times better than Super Mario 64, as great a game as that one is, the critcs at the time couldn’t help but acknowledge the superior length of gameplay and more things to do in Super Mario 64. In comparison, Nights into Dreams looked like just a game about flying trying to sate Sonic fans who awaited a true 3D Sonic. But something about Nights made it become a cult classic in spite of the critics. Just like Rez. It’s called introspection. Time allowed people to look back and see that maybe there was something more to the game than first impressions made it out to be. For me, it was the sense of childlike whimsy infused into the game that you just can’t quantify like graphics and that most games don’t possess. That combined with the exceedingly fun rollercoaster-like dancing and flying made for a hit in my eyes.

With Nights: Journey of Dreams, Sonic Team made the same mistake. Release it against a Super Mario game. Only this time, games have progressed, and Nights seems to be in love with the old school. Not only that, Sonic Team isn’t the creative genius it used to be, as you can see with the Sonic games of late. It looks like Journey of Dreams suffers from “too many cooks in the kitchen” syndrome, but compared to the modern Sonic games, it’s probably a godsend.

I don’t understand the comment about Panzer Dragoon Saga. I thought at the time it was considered the Saturn’s finest title. It was only a shame that it had to be released in the shadow of FFVII. You can’t polish a turd, but Nights was never a turd. But it’s true that you can tarnish a jewel. Some games just age badly. I doubt I’d have as much fun playing Streets of Rage as I did back during the Genesis days. However other games like Earthworm Jim, Guardian Heroes, and Nights are still holding up very well. I’ll reserve judgment about Journey of Dreams when I buy it and play it.

83

Speaking of Super Mario Galaxy, I had the opportunity to play it yesterday. I liked it. The Wii-mote features felt kind of secondary (the game could easily be converted to be played with a standard controller IMO), but overall it felt like a polished and innovative platform game.

Platformers seem like a dying breed these days, so it’s pleasing to see both new Mario and NiGHTS games on the Wii. Here’s hoping that Mario Galaxy’s success leads to an influx of new plaform games.

84

My point was that it was only really Sega Saturn official Magazine who actually seemed to like Saturn games… :anjou_happy:

Alot of third parties, like Edge and Game Master etc, seemed to dislike the system in general.

At the end of the day though - it is just opinions, since games are essentially art, and art is subjective :stuck_out_tongue: Unless the game does not meet it’s own design brief there is technically nothing really wrong with it… from an artistic standpoint - one of the major reasons why I think video game journalism i all bullshit and refuse to buy magazines related to it.

I’m not really sure Sonic Team was ever that creative, they only really made Sonic 1 and 2 on Megadrive, the rest of them were outsourced to Sega of America. Burning Rangers was a bit creative, however I’d still argue that it wasn’t actually a fun game… I never “got into” burning rangers, I always found it disjointed and clunky.

Also, the new Nights and Sonics are also made by Sta.

As for releasing it against a super mario game… I don’t really think that was a mistake, here in the UK Nights is at no.1 in the Gamestation charts, Mario Galaxy is at no.2

:stuck_out_tongue:

85

C’Mon Gearguy you’re better than this, Sonic II was developed by STI , but likes of Sonic , Sonic III, Sonic CD, Sonic &K Sonic Adv were made by the Japanese teams, and to me Sonic Adv is the best 3D platform game I’ve played (even now)

Gamefan (brilliant mag) , Maximum were very big suppoters of the Satunrn and to a point so was CVG.

AlsoI don’t get this point about creative , I mean all the mario Team is make Mario or Zelda games yet everone raves about them . I think there’s plenty of talent left in the Sonic Team , just that they lack any sort of .quailty controls and seem happy to bring out games even when they’re not finished .

You wnat people that are creative then look at SONY, yet becasue its SONY they’ll never get any credit , but if NCL or SEGA made the likes of ICO were’ll never hear the end of it

86

I could have sworn Sonic 2 AND Sonic 3 & Knuckles were the product of STI.

Edit: Also, I agree in regards to Sony’s Team ICO. They’re 2 for 2 so far, and I’m anxiously waiting for their next project.

87

[quote=“Parn”]I could have sworn Sonic 2 AND Sonic 3 & Knuckles were the product of STI.

Edit: Also, I agree in regards to Sony’s Team ICO. They’re 2 for 2 so far, and I’m anxiously waiting for their next project.[/quote]

There’s a good chance it will be announced either this week or at GDC so stay tuned.

88

Another thing worth noting is that Sonic Team America consists of Japanese developers sent to the US from the Sonic Team Japan team.

Maybe it’s splitting hairs, but Sonic Team America still operates as a team within Sonic Team.

89

I played through the game as Will last Saturday, and have almost completed it as Helen. For those who haven’t played this game yet, you’re in for a real treat.

If you’re expecting something that stays true to the NiGHTS formula, you may be disapointed. The game is different, but I don’t see that as a bad thing. Think Sonic Adventure and Panzer Dragoon Orta different, rather than Shining Force Neo different. So Orta haters, you should proabably approach this one with some healthy skepticism. :wink:

Each dream has one “classic” NiGHTS level, which plays much the same as the Saturn game, but you have to catch a bird instead of collect blue chips. As well this, there are several other levels per dream which a quite different from the original NiGHTS, but keep the speed of the game, so it’s not like in Sonic Adventure 2 where you were forced to play the Knuckles/Rogue stages (which slowed the pace of the game). The only exception to this are the on foot stages, where you play as Will or Helen and have to navigate your way out of maze, but these levels are only occassional.

One dispointment I had was the Wii-mote controls. Perhaps I’m just hopelessly cack-handed, these controls make NiGHTS far harder to control than the standard analog controls. Instead of moving the remote to control NiGHTS’s movement, you have to point the cursor in the direction you want NiGHTS to fly, and then he’ll follow it. I tried these controls for a while, but it just didn’t feel right (unlike, Metroid Prime 3, for example, where you get used to it reasonably quickly, and it actually levels like you’re in control of the gun). You can still select standard analog controls, but it would have been nice if they’d tried some sort of movement based controls instead. As it stands, the game would have been just as good - or better - if it had been released on PS3 or Xbox 360.

Overall, though, I’m really happy with the end result of this game. Sonic Team have done an excellent job, and the end result is a highly polished game that is worthy of the NiGHTS name. NiGHTS is back, and I for one hope that Journey of Dreams sells well enough so that it isn’t the last in the series.

90

Well here’s at least one more person that bought it.

91

Despite it’s flaws, from a hardcore fan’s standpoint, I deem Orta worthy of a Xbox purchase. By comparison would you guys say Nights 2 is also worthy of a Wii pruchase?

92

Is ANYTHING worthy of a Wii purchase? It seems to be mostly minigame style, family oriented crap. Thank heaven we have No More Heroes. That’s next on my list. Oh. And Smash Brothers. You could say THAT is worth the price of buying a Wii. Other than The Legend of Zelda.

93

Definitely.

There’s also Zelda Twilight Princess (also on Gamecube, but it’s quite fun using the Wii-mote to control your sword). Super Mario Galaxy, and Metroid Prime 3: Corruption, both of which are high quality (and innovative) titles.

94

[quote=“Solo Wing Dragon”]

Definitely.

There’s also Zelda Twilight Princess (also on Gamecube, but it’s quite fun using the Wii-mote to control your sword). Super Mario Galaxy, and Metroid Prime 3: Corruption, both of which are high quality (and innovative) titles.[/quote]

What might help make it an easier decision is actually three GC games I never ended up playing (Skies of Arcadia : Legends [never played the original for more than 5 mins], Killer 7 and Eternal Darkness), No More Heroes and the virtual console.

I’m pretty unexperienced when it comes to Nintento IPs but first and foremost comes the desire to play Nights 2 and Eternal Darkness (although I’ll need a GC controller, correct me if I’m wrong).

Still, the 360 is a priority with Too Human’s (my most anticipated title next to Team Ico’s third game) release getting closer and closer.

This might be the first time I get all 3 major consoles , though since I also need to play “ICO 3” and Uncharted… :stuck_out_tongue:

95

Yeah, you’ll need a Gamecube controller to play Eternal Darkness. I recommend this over the classic controller, which only works with Virtual Console games, not GC games (whereas the Gamecube controller will work with Virtual Console games and Gamecube games).

NiGHTS Journey of Dreams works fine with remote and nunchuck controller.

96

Nights: Journey of Dreams. Initial impressions.

“Argh. The voice acting.”
“Nights is British?”
“Why am I chasing a bird?!”
“Where is the trick ribbon?”
“Where’s my bonus time?”

Then I discovered the existence of dream drops. Then I found out each level has five missions. Then I played the boat sequence. Then I was hooked!

Make no mistake. The original is vastly superior. I think it’s too easy to get an A in this game, and I miss the bonus time. Why do I HAVE to finish the course after I get the key? It also feels like the nunchuk stick isn’t as accurate as the Saturn controls. Which is weird. But it’s still a solid game throughout.

97

I liked the trick system in JoD a bit more, since it’s consistently available for use to marginally add to your score.

98

I am NOT HAPPY with NiGHTS:JoD

just got a Wii, needless to say the new NiGHTS was a huge influence in my purchase.
I don’t even know where to start, firstly the annoying tutorials. One of the great things about the original is the mysteriousness and ambiguity of the game, this one has some stupid owl explaining stuff to you like you are 3 years old.
The voice acting… ahhhhhh i can’t believe they could mutilate NiGHTS like that. And they still had to explain EVERY TINY DETAIL leaving nothing to imagination.

The control method appauls me. Mainly because the Nunchuk analog stick has ridges in it, meaning you can’t do a nice smooth circle, but instead an octagon. I plugged in my Gamecube controller, a bit better but still has the octagon shape.

On the first level, I got a B
It took me agesssss to get a B in the original. At that point i’m thinking whats ging on with this game?? I didn’t do anything special i just flew through the course.

I cringed at every cut scene. I remember during the fist level the feeling just wasnt there, the music just made it seem like it was trying way to hard to make everythign fit into a “dreamland”.

I feel like sending the whole of the Saturn NiGHTS team a sympathy card, you know one of the ones where one of your friends/family has passed away. Because I for one am feeling destroyed after what they’ve done to one of my favourite game and character.

The only thing i can say good about it really is the graphics. I don’t really like the character designs really (including NiGHTS’ new look) but the updaed Nightmaren loon nice though, and the worlds in general. My World feature seems pretty cool. The only music i like is the stuff taken from the original, the rest i have heard so far isnt as appealing.

Each moment i continue playing i feel more and more frustrated.

99

I’m with you on the cut scenes - they mostly weren’t that necessary. And like the Sonic Adventure games, the voice acting is questionable at best.

Sonic Team’s games would be better off without cut scenes, but it seems every game these days has to include them. That’s too bad, because I’m sure they could tell the story another way.

100

I refuse to buy any new consoles unless something REALLY amazing (like a new PD RPG) is made for one. I own plenty and am pretty satisfied with what I have.

I really would like to play the new NiGHTS and if not for things like the Owl and NiGHTS talking, I would consider buying a Wii just for it. Too bad is apparently is at best almost as fun as the original and at worst blasphemy against the original?