the dragon he is fighting looks more panzer than the player dragon
the dragon he is fighting looks more panzer than the player dragon
Looks pretty good. I wonder how the game will SOUND like. I was a bit let down by Orta’s soundtrack.
I guess, the change in style from Saga to Orta was really trying to tell the story of a different world and events and characters, so it makes sense in terms of integrity (which always gets points in my book). But I wanted to be moved like I was in the first three games.
I’m hoping that despite not being a PD game… the people behind this will enfuse the game with real emotion.
I think a lot of fans wanted to relive Panzer Dragoon Saga’s dark world with Xbox quality graphics. The artists decided to take the series in a different direction. For the most part Orta’s style fits in with the Panzer Dragoon canon (with a few exceptions). I’d like to see a future Panzer game revisit the desolate world found in the Saturn games, but I’m not sure how they could fit it in with the current direction of the story. Even if they brought back the old Imperial ships, say with the Academy Faction building a new airforce in the style of the Old Empire to fight the Prince Faction, I’m not sure if they could recreate that muddy coloured world found in the Saturn trilogy without undoing many of the plot elements introduced in Orta.
Well, there is really nothing going for it. Futatsugi expressed a slight disapproval of Orta existing at all (no doubt due to canon issues/not having worked on it) and seems to have finally moved on, now that he’s creating a new game so akin to PD.I’m sure this is his idea of a new PD outside legal boundaries.
I’m also pretty sure Orta’s stylistic direction was no coincidence. Every new team wants to be able to call their work their own.
I’m definitely saddened by the canon issues. Historically, Orta is congruent with the older games but the art style really changes the vibe of the series dramatically. It’s sad to get attached to a fictional world you will probably never be able to revisit. I think there are creative ways out of most canon conundrums though. If nothing else, we could always experience events prior to Orta. Still, I wouldn’t like cannon tweaks that completely dismissed Orta. That just makes a mess out of the whole series and is an even bigger disservice. Congruence.
If Team Andromeda were to reassemble and Orta was acknowledged as part of the canon…you could then come up with story concepts that changed things back to how things were.
We can’t forget though, that for all intents and purposes, the Heresy Dragon’s story is finished, so Orta or not, a new game would have to face the end of Will of the Ancients and Heresy story arc.
The context is a tough nut to crack, but I think the focus should be on more character development and relationships between characters and CONNECTION with the characters. In PD1, Zwei and Orta there wasn’t much room for that…but Gash, Paet, Azel, Edge etc and their interactions made the whole world feel humanly alive despite the relative harshness of post-apocalypse.
With no Will and no Heresy what story could we have though?
Futatsugi clearly loved the world he created and even mentioned the idea of game as a non-dragonrider in that 1up interview. I’m actually curious about Crimson Dragon just to see how much is going to be put into creating an interesting new world. But I’m not hoping to be impressed in any way.
I’m not so sure that he intends to make Crimson Dragon “his idea of a new Panzer Dragoon”. In this 1up article he says that, “If for example, I was tasked with a different job of making a Panzer Dragoon sequel, then I probably wouldn’t even do it on Kinect. So that I would enjoy doing on its own, but it’s a different thing.”
I don’t have the quote handy, but there was another interview where he said he’d like to make a game where you’d play as a regular person in the Panzer world collecting ship parts, and just see the dragon flying in distance, rather than actually controlling it. So, it would likely be the story of a regular person, rather than a hero who saves the world. I’d personally love to play a game like that. (I just noticed you mentioned this).
[quote=“Ehndow”]I’m definitely saddened by the canon issues. Historically, Orta is congruent with the older games but the art style really changes the vibe of the series dramatically. It’s sad to get attached to a fictional world you will probably never be able to revisit. I think there are creative ways out of most canon conundrums though. If nothing else, we could always experience events prior to Orta. Still, I wouldn’t like cannon tweaks that completely dismissed Orta. That just makes a mess out of the whole series and is an even bigger disservice. Congruence.
If Team Andromeda were to reassemble and Orta was acknowledged as part of the canon…you could then come up with story concepts that changed things back to how things were.[/quote]
I wouldn’t want a new Panzer game to ignore Orta either. However, I’m not sure how easy it would be to revert back to the old style without it feeling that way. Anything that happens post-Orta in the timeline would need to extend Orta’s continuity, so if the art style was the same as PDS it would feel like Orta was ignored (unless there was some very clever explanation). In some ways, it might be better if a new game consisted of a third art style, perhaps defining a third era that takes place many years after Orta. Since the next game would be played by a whole new generation of gamers, it’s probably better not to tie it together too closely with the events of Orta or the Saturn trilogy to avoid confusion. Having a game starring the dragon wouldn’t make sense if the game took place before Orta, since there were no sightings on the dragon other than in four games, so I suggest an era many years after Orta. Maybe 200 years in the future, or even further. The events of the previous games could become legends.
[quote=“Ehndow”]We can’t forget though, that for all intents and purposes, the Heresy Dragon’s story is finished, so Orta or not, a new game would have to face the end of Will of the Ancients and Heresy story arc.
The context is a tough nut to crack, but I think the focus should be on more character development and relationships between characters and CONNECTION with the characters. In PD1, Zwei and Orta there wasn’t much room for that…but Gash, Paet, Azel, Edge etc and their interactions made the whole world feel humanly alive despite the relative harshness of post-apocalypse.[/quote]
I think a story about the interaction of human (and drone) characters in the Panzer Dragoon world could make a compelling story. There doesn’t need to be an overhanging ancient power (like the Towers) for their to be a conflict, as witnessed by the rivalry between the different factions (the Empire, the Wormriders, the Seekers, and Abadd) in PDO. A story about whether humans are better off free (as opposed to being controlled by the Towers) would be in line with themes of the Panzer Dragoon trilogy; now that the world is no longer controlled by the will of the Ancients it will be a test to see if humans really can control themselves on their own or whether they will “continue to destroy themselves” as Craymen believed. The story could parallel the story of the warring ancient factions who were on the path to their own destruction.
He also says in that same paragraph
: “I guess because all the things that I wanted to do with Panzer I did already”.
What I meant was that according to his reasons for creating Crimson Dragon, he likes the ideas of flying and dragons a lot. That’s part of his motivation for making both PD and GD, at least. And in that same article he says “(if) I was tasked with a different job of making a Panzer Dragoon sequel…” which I’m reading as “if Sega were to enable me to make a new PD game I would obviously approach it differently”.
It is my opinion that Crimson Dragon’s commonalities with PD game are partly saying “if Sega doesn’t let me make a PD game I’ll go for the second best thing since I still want to make games about flying and dragons with funky artstyle and my loyal peeps”.
My biggest pet peeves with the art direction in Orta concern the Empire and the Dragon. Orta’s dragon pup could evolve into an entirely different direction than its previous form, though. Storywise it would be easy to change the dragon’s design.
The pure types and mutated types are acceptable. The Cradle was destroyed and Dragonmares are no more. All that would be left would be an excuse to change the Empire.
I’d like something similar to that, yeah. I think I’d like to see a “the Will of the Newest Empire(newest peak of human civilization)” kind of premise. The new new Empire getting closer and closer to what the Ancients were…and finding Sestren and trying to write their own programs…I’d like a nod to the story of the opposing Ancient factions in some way…and a sense of history repeating itself…but with something new thrown in the mix. Maybe a sense that the real threat to the PanDra world weren’t the ancients…but humanity interacting with too powerful a technology. The real threat are humans trying to tamper with nature. And the Empire is still alive.
I’d like to see a more philosophical spin to the story in the form of conflict between really fleshed out characters…as if mimicking the same exact issues the Ancients faced back in the day. History coming full circle. This could also be an excuse to reference a bit more about the Ancient Age indirectly. Well…really there is a lot of possibilities, but I feel there needs to a main story with large scale implications in some way again. There need to be significant events to make a story that rivals Saga.
IMO, the Empire evolved rather than was changed from what it was originally intended to be.
Immigration changed the whole culture of the Empire and the new ship designs/colours reflected that change.
What a future PD game could and should explore is the culture clash between the old guard and the new guard. I think the old Empire would win or at least dominate politically because it’s just so much more psychopathic in nature.
I actually liked how the anti-gravity engines were built into the warships below their hulls as opposed to above. It might have simply been more efficient that way.
IMO, it’s hard to be original in a way that can reach average people. That’s what you have to keep in mind, but honestly, there is no shortage of ideas.
All you need is a clueless protagonist learning about things for the first time alongside the audience and you are good to go.
The main character from FF12 springs to mind for some inexplicable reason.
Yeah, that might so. The way I see it, he’s saying that Crimson Dragon is another game about flying and dragons. It has those things in common with Panzer. And if it were a Panzer Dragoon game sure it might have those things too, but there would be lots of different things too. So I don’t see it as his idea of another Panzer Dragoon, so much as an idea of another dragon/flying game. Crimson Dragon is going to be deliberately different from Panzer in many respects and not just because the two universes cannot legally be the same but because he wants them to be different.
Or it could be a new dragon again, especially if they skipped forward a number of years. I’m of the view that the dragon pup at the end of Orta is still partially Lagi, but that’s another story.
IMO, a diversity of different ships would be good, so maybe in a sequel there could be different factions or empires, with the Southerner ships belonging to just one of those factions. We still don’t know who or what lies in the far north or west of the continent, or other continents, so there is lots of room of expanding on the known world.
Yep. Compare the Empire who tend to go against nature to the Wormriders who co-exist with it. I’d like to see less of a traditional good vs evil story though, which PDO hinted at with the Seekers being the “enemy” to Orta, while being friendly towards Iva.
Maybe a drone threat who try to reestablish/continue the Technology Preservation Faction’s legacy (like what Abadd did, but on a larger scale). A drone empire competing with the Empire for control of the ancient technology.
Yep its not Panzer and while it looks nice its going to fall flat on its ass due to its controls imo. Kinect is useless
It won’t be a game based around quick reflexes for sure, so if you’re looking for that kind of shooter you’ll be disappointed. However, it may be a fun shooter in an alternative way. Like the mini games in Kinect Adventures. I wouldn’t want all games to play like that, but as an alternative they’re fun.
It’s possible that if Crimson Dragon wasn’t being made for Kinect it wouldn’t be made at all.
[quote=“Solo Wing”]It won’t be a game based around quick reflexes for sure, so if you’re looking for that kind of shooter you’ll be disappointed. However, it may be a fun shooter in an alternative way. Like the mini games in Kinect Adventures. I wouldn’t want all games to play like that, but as an alternative they’re fun.
It’s possible that if Crimson Dragon wasn’t being made for Kinect it wouldn’t be made at all.[/quote]
Lag in any kind of shooter is bad mate and Kinect games always have lag . I really tried to get into Kinnect and I will admit Kinect Sports is kind of fun, but it not work for this type of game - Child Of Eden was a nightmare for me with Kinect
Lag is bad, but it can also be considered a trade off. Sometimes by having one feature you have to sacrifice another.
In an interview, Futatsugi stated that the difficulty would be adjusted to accommodate for the Kinect controls. Whereas Child of Eden’s difficulty was similar regardless of what control method you used. It seems unlikely that this is the sort of game you play for a challenge or quick reflexes, more for the experience of flight.
[quote=“Solo Wing”]Lag is bad, but it can also be considered a trade off. Sometimes by having one feature you have to sacrifice another.
[/quote]
Not in a any shooter . A shooter needs pin point controls and zero lag and the current Kinect can’t cope with that and if you don’t play a shooter for quick reflexes getting a better score ect what do you play a shooter for - That’s what gives you the buzz from playing shooters and why you play them again and again .
TA, if you just substituted “I” for each instance of “you” in that post, it could have been more agreeable and even effective?
Team Andromeda, I can relate to your position when it comes to many traditional rail shooters, but for games like Panzer Dragoon and (probably) Crimson Dragon, the immersion into the game world is the primary factor that draws me in.
For games like Ikaruga, and also Panzer Dragoon Orta, the strategy is a significant factor. They’re not just about reflexes, but what form you choose to address each situation. Even if Crimson Dragon’s controls don’t offer pin point precision, the game can make up for it in other ways.
[quote=“Solo Wing”]Team Andromeda, I can relate to your position when it comes to many traditional rail shooters, but for games like Panzer Dragoon and (probably) Crimson Dragon, the immersion into the game world is the primary factor that draws me in.
[/quote]
It can draw you in for sure and the feeling of you and your pet against the whole world drew me in to Panzer along with its fanatics style , but its a still a shooter at heart and ‘imo’ the reason why people go back to the shooters (which in most cases can be finished on the 1st day you buy them) is that shooter buzz you get from bettering your score and dodging the attacks and bullets and for that ‘I’ feel you need pin point controls with no lag and its doesn’t matter if its a 2D or 3D shooter - the controls need to be spot on and if you die its your fault and not the controls
Fair points , but Orta and Ikaruga had pin point controls and no lag .
Well if there are people out there who can pull it off on Kinect it’s probably gonna be Futatsugi and friends.
Personally, I’m gonna try buying Kinect and the game, if nothing else to support Grounding. If we don’t keep these guys in business who will?
In that case Crimson Dragon is probably not going to be to your liking, seeing how similar the controls are. But let’s be honest: mastering a shooter isn’t so much about reflexes as it is about constant repetition and memorization of enemy attack patterns. Especially in the case of Panzer Dragoon. In that case the latency involved with Kinect is actually not much of an issue, since it doesn’t change the attack patterns at all.