That pic is scaary!Seriously there’s something human about that cat!!

As for the topic, what exactly is there to dicuss?

As for the topic, what exactly is there to dicuss?[/quote]

Is that a serious question? Come on, man.

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is perhaps the most important international conflict going on right now. Fuck the “War on Terror,” this is what is going to influence future generations in the middle east. Do the Israeli’s have sovereignty, or do the Palestinians? Do neither have it? Come on, there’s tons to discuss. I just wanted to hear everyone’s thoughts on the subject.

Personally, I don’t pick sides, just because no matter what happens, there’s going to be religious crackpots in charge, and also because it’s completely irrelevant in my eyes as these people have been at war with each other in some context for centuries. If that entire area hasn’t been rendered completely desolate in the next few hundred years, they’ll still be going at it.

I actually have serious opinions on this. Go me!

Israel should pull out of the Gaza strip. They’ve been pushing innocent Palestinians out of their homes for decades now - it’s gotten to the point where Palestinians cannot leave their homes empty for even an hour as Israelites will immediately take possession of the house.

And of course, there’s the horrible prejudice the soldiers and other Israelites show the native Palestinians. It’s a totally disgusting situation. Really, somebody needs to do something about it, but I can’t see any politicians bothering, no matter how many documentaries are made or appeals started. And I’m saying that as a huge fan of Gordon Brown.

And of course, there’s the horrible prejudice the soldiers and other Israelites show the native Palestinians. It’s a totally disgusting situation. Really, somebody needs to do something about it, but I can’t see any politicians bothering, no matter how many documentaries are made or appeals started. And I’m saying that as a huge fan of Gordon Brown.[/quote]

Uh, the prejudice kinda swings both ways. The Palestinians are far from innocent; these cunts train their children to be suicide bombing soldiers of Allah from age five. Moreover, the children’s parents fully endorse this brilliantly conceived notion. I have little sympathy for them. There is a seething hatred towards Jews (The term “Zionist” gets tossed around quite a bit over there) in general, not just Israeli Jews.
Don’t take this to mean that I support the Israeli’s either. All I’m saying is that in my eyes it all boils down to two groups of religious crackpots battling it out over who the invisible man in the sky gave who a certain land. A ludicrous, insane conflict that should not still be going on in the 21st Century, in a supposed “civilized” era.

And the reason that politicians aren’t voicing their opinions is that they know that they have no control over what happens over there in the end; involvement in this particular affair is a futile affair which, because of our support of Israel, has already caused a great deal of enmity towards the US in the middle east. We should just let them tear each other apart.

Besides, why would anyone in the US want to worry themselves with problems in the middle east when we’ve already got so many equally important issues to concern ourselves with, like gay marriage, abortion, and evolution/prayer in the classroom?

(I need to make a “rolleyes” anjou emoticon)

But what about the innocent Palestinians? The ones who have soldiers kick them out of their homes? The ones who are stoned in the street by Israelites? I really think that Israel should pull out of the Gaza Strip. By trying to fulfill the third “requirement” of the Jewish state, they’ve lost sight of the first two.

But the people who are suicide bombing should GTFO. Hamas are trying to prove that they are capable politicians, but they are going about it the wrong way. Too much bombing and stupidity, not enough talking and definitive action.

To be honest, it reminds me of the whole Protestant/Catholic thing that went/was going on in Ireland. That makes me feel really uncomfortable.


I think it’s heating up to boiling point. Soon even the emperor of the air himself may be forced to intervene personally to ensure there are no interruptions to the flow of spice feeding our insatiable hunger for distractions from the pointlessness of it all.

Islamo-facists have indoctrinated themselves to believe that death to all non-believing invaders promises to bring them eternal bliss. To cut a long story short, the enemy the modern world is fighting is a suicidal one who doesn’t give the consequences of their potential actions a second thought before blowing themselves to smithereens, taking as many people as they possibly can with them.

With suit-case nukes becoming closer and closer to reality, it’s only a matter of time before this fanatacism running rampart threatens to blow up in our very faces.

And I am sorry folks, but burrying your heads in the sand will not help. This is a problem that words alone will not solve. The only thing I know for certain is that God does not want people to die. He wants them to live. Life is a gift, and to throw that gift away is a terrible waste.

Nonetheless, there is only one language bullies understand, and that is violence. If you don’t speak the same language, you will never know the meaning of the word peace. Just go ask a mugger.

It was less a religious issue, and more a nationalistic one with the split nation squabling over loyalties in the end.

The north wanted to remain a part of Britain, thus British troops were sent in to protect it. End of story. The whole religious freedom nonsense goes back to the English civil war. You even had British colonists form new states in America to pursue freedom of religion (ironically, even from other American states).

I like that word. You read Christopher Hitchens, don’t you?

So would you call a policy on non-intervention to be “burying our heads in the sand,” considering that allying with any of those crackpots is doing your country a misdeed by drawing them into a conflict that will never end?

I think letting them tear each other apart is the safest course of action to take. People will still die, yes, but once you bring the alliance system into the matter, even more death and destruction will be brought on as a result. Look at WWI.

Well, I’m going to butt in and say that Hitler had the right idea - he was just an underachiever. If I had my way, I would eliminate 90% of the world’s entire population, regardless of race, sex, or faith. But it appears I’m not the only one who thinks this way - check out the Georgia Guidestones:

Since we’re on the topic of faith now, the world would be heaven on earth if everyone were atheists. ‘God’ is a manmade myth, created solely for the purpose of controlling the masses through fear. If humanity would throw away the idea of God, all of this nonsense would go away.

You’ve said you hate what you’ve become yourself in past threads, why would you go ahead and have your way in this, well, way, when you acknowledge your own faults which make you totally unsuitable for such decisions? Why would you consider yourself of all people a suitable authority that can decide on the fate of the world instead of let other forces beyond your pathetic self take care of that?

Oh right, you’re simply a moron who thinks his beliefs are facts, his needs and desires the only things that are real and matter, much like fanatics of any religion, even if his beliefs don’t rely on the idea of a God.

You are an atheist apparently, but if everyone was like you the world would certainly not be better off so your point is, as usual, totally void and you prove that much with your own thoughts. Even if we assumed some of what you say is so, it would only show that it is just mankind’s nature therefor even without the idea of a God things would turn out the same.

Why should things change anyway? Just let life run its cycle, we’ll all be gone some day, eventually even the whole solar system we reside in will be lost. With that fact in mind, nothing matters at all especially according to your beliefs as you don’t think “God” exists, so why do you trouble yourself (and others) so much with such stupid, meaningless thoughts of what you’d do if you had your way (you never will, I’m sorry to say) or what should be done or what will be done or what is done?

What you can do is live your meaningless life and let others do the same in peace. You can always try to better yourself, the only person you have actual power over, and not be as “bad” as the groups of people you judge and hate but instead you become just like them and even worse, always yelling out your bullshit trying to make someone, anyone, to acknowledge them or something. All the things you claim are wrong and claim to hate, which I’ll sum up as “control” are things you wish to decide over for everyone else yourself. Again, much like a fanatic of any religion. Again, so very pathetic, so very sad.

PS: Not to mention you’ve predicted about 5 different ways humanity will be near extinct anyway so you don’t have to think of how you’d do it yourself, heh. As I’ve said before, half of what you say and claim contradicts the other half. Try harder.

I think the biggest problem is that all involved parties are a bunch of hotheads who seem to act before they think. “You killed one of ours? Then we’ll kill two of yours!”

Which of course makes it highly difficult to sit down and talk with them in hopes of working something out. Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try though.

Gentlemen, let’s keep this civil.

[quote=“Pedro The Hutt”]I think the biggest problem is that all involved parties are a bunch of hotheads who seem to act before they think. “You killed one of ours? Then we’ll kill two of yours!”

Which of course makes it highly difficult to sit down and talk with them in hopes of working something out. Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try though.[/quote]

Problem is that people have been trying; people have made efforts to meet with moderates and sort the problem out. They have been for decades. But it should be apparent at this point that diplomacy in the middle east simply isn’t effective due to cultural differences. You rid the area of its cultural distinctions that polarize it, you essentially open a door to diplomacy. Achieving that, however, would require a massive overhaul which just…won’t happen anytime soon.

My mother hates Japanese people. She has never actually sat down and talked to someone of Japanese origin, but she does not like them. This is how she was raised, from the old school post-WWII mentality that Japanese people were all evil. The current generation of Korean children do not share that perspective. Japan has done nothing to Korea since WWII. Nevertheless, my mother still does not like the Japanese.

The Middle East’s real problem is that it’s so far behind the curve in education. Getting the children educated is of the upmost importance if there is to ever be any real stabilization of the region. It’s wasted on the adults since they’re set in their ways… the focus needs to be on the children. No amount of occupation and police enforcement will stabilize the region if kids continue to be taught that killing Jews/Muslims is their calling in life. It will take at least two generations for things to work out if this is pursued, but considering how many centuries the region has been suffering due to all this fighting, what’s another 40 years?

Well, considering that a colorful variety of whackos are getting their hands on nuclear arms one-by-one, forty years could be potentially devastating to wait.

I think that your little estimate is kind of wishful thinking. Forty years? Come on, man. Do you really think you can erase a culture that has been around for over a thousand years in a twenty year timespan?

There a reason for your lack of consistency?

At any rate, who said anything about erasing a culture? All I’m suggesting is beginning a cycle that has yet to be started. My previous post is assuming absolutely optimal conditions of course, where a genuine effort would be made to start educating kids throughout the region. In around 40 years, the kids you were teaching in their late pre-teens would be closing in on 50 and would be running the show, supported by a populace that would be considerably less ignorant than their parents. Life expectancy in that area of the world is not particularly high. Previous generations with stubborn adults will have passed on, and there’d be considerably less individuals holding on to medieval-era thinking.

There a reason for your lack of consistency?[/quote]

Yeah, it’s called not paying attention when I type. A true crime in logic, I know. Sue me. I meant forty and you know it.

You did, indirectly. Now, before I go on, let me say that I get what you’re saying, it makes sense. Which is why I didn’t sit there and call you stupid. My problem with your proposal is that it makes the assumption that there enough moderates in the area willing to listen to it. Put it this way. You already know that the extremist Islamofascists aren’t going to listen to you, correct? They have their system set up the way it is for a reason: It keeps them in power. The few adults who don’t completely buy into their bullshit are quiet about it out of fear of being stoned to death; a completely reasonable course of action given their situation. How do you expect to reach out to the moderates, and, not only that, but get them in a position such that they can educate the youth populace, when there are whackos in power?

The Islamofascists have that area completely within their grasp. They have the power. In order to get the area into the state necessary to implement your proposal, you must first remove them. How do you expect to do that? Ask them nicely? The only way to remove them from power is to use force, because as Geoff said, the only language that bullies understand is violence.

The only problem with that is that, like I said, I’m an isolationist on the matter, and non-intervention ultimately prevents more death than if we are to remain involved (our involvement as you know is simply creating more terrorists, creating more instability in the region).

So what options are you left with?

No, I didn’t. There’s more to Middle Eastern culture than suicide bombings and jihad.

Yep! We basically started in Iraq. However, I believe our focus is misplaced, as it should be on educating the children there, because they’re going to build the future of Iraq, not the current generations in power. Anyone thinking Iraq will be stabilized before the close of the decade is out of their mind (read: senile politicians in Congress). The current generation of old fogeys who are supposed to improve Iraq are too set in their ways and won’t cooperate with one another.

The biggest problem is that the United States is too busy trying to please everybody and attempting to take an impartial role in Iraq’s government when we should say to hell with it and be in full control. The Iraqis clearly can’t handle it themselves, so we should control things directly until they are capable of indepedence (read: when the majority of the insurgency has been obliterated).

No, I didn’t. There’s more to Middle Eastern culture than suicide bombings and jihad.[/quote]

Okay, I’ll give you that. I stand humbled in this respect. However I should reiterate that a vast majority of Middle Eastern culture still surrounds religious dogma, and those are the aspects that post a threat.

So we can build a satellite state. Brilliant idea.

Let me ask you something: If they can’t handle setting up a democratic government on their own, how on earth do you expect them to maintain it once it’s been instated? The fact that it has not set itself up on its own should be a red flag to everyone, and it amazes me that people think that nation-building is a good idea.

Think about it. Do you realize how different in culture we are from these people? Our country has been around a mere 230 years. Their’s, and moreover, their culture has been around for far longer, as I stated earlier. Theocracy is all they know. Democratic Republicanism is a radical concept to them. You can’t just expect them to stomach it overnight. Especially not the American democratic system specifically (A very secular system), which I will point out right now has never worked in any country other than America. So of course they can’t handle it themselves. It’s not compatible with their beliefs. And forcing our presence upon them is not going to make them more inclined to follow our ways.

Take this analogy for example: A teacher is administering a student a detention. The assignment is to write “I will construct a democracy” one thousand times. The student however is an asshole and refuses, so the teacher takes his hand, pencil and all, and writes the phrase a thousand times with his hand. Now, even though the assignment is technically complete, would the student have done it on his own? No. Does he feel inclined to apply himself towards filling the demands of the teacher? No.

Essentially, it’s the same situation.

Make sense?

This is where the kids come in. The current generation can’t maintain it. My proposal would take a long time and a lot of money, but I sincerely believe it would work. I suppose one might refer to what I propose as brainwashing, but hey. Of course, no one would ever implement my idea, but it’s fun to pretend since none of us are in a position of influence.

Anyways, that’s all I’ve got. Haven’t had a good debate like this in awhile!