I was playing WONDERBOY IN MONSTERLAND recently and realised that
apart from the original game and WONDERBOY IN MONSTER LAIR ,the rest of the series are basically hybrid RPGs. From what i can gather most of WB fans perfer it this way. The similarities to WONDERBOY and PANZER DRAGOON are quite striking as they both started out a different types of games to the genre considering that PANZER DRAGOON series on the saturn ended as a RPG and is by far the most popular with fans(Although not commerically due to various reasons that has nothing to do with the game’s appeal to the general public back in 97.) If Sega did make a new
game which is an RPG instead of the rail shooter should they just stick to the RPG format for good?
I thought PDS was exceptional for a RPG and although i like the rail shooter genre of PANZER DRAGOON to me the game fitted the RPG style perfectly.
ORTA is great but it’s like a step down to the natural evolution of the series as a whole. When Sega did what they did to PD they should n’t have went back when the old genre of play does n’t work for it anymore.
Financially, I suspect it’d be wiser for Sega to not make any more rail-shooters. The idea worked wonders at the beginning of the 32-bit era because it allowed the Panzer Dragoon games to create a visually brilliant 3D world without having to worry about the problem of people exploring that 3D world - which, at the time, most console gamers didn’t mind. However, games in this age really rely on creating a feeling of freedom, and no matter how illusionry that freedom may be it’s what most gamers have come to expect. While I don’t literally agree that Panzer Dragoon Orta is a step backwards for the series, the rail-shooter genre as a whole must seem like a step backwards as far as most gamers are concerned; we all know that PDO had less than outstanding sales, despite the praise that the critics gave it.
The question I’ve been considering recently is, would a new Panzer Dragoon RPG really be more successful, assuming that it was an excellent game in its own right? At least, would it sell enough for it to be a worthwhile project for Sega (given that a good RPG would cost considerably more to develop than a good rail-shooter)? The market seems to be fairly open to RPGs / Action-RPGs at the moment, but PD is still a relatively unknown brand in most gamers’ eyes…
A New PD RPG would be a double edged sword, really. The good thing is we’d finally have another PD RPG…the bad thing, however, is that it will be in the realm of Orta, instead of Saga…which would mean no Towers, no Guardian Dragon, no Uru, and no Heresy Program. These things, especially the Towers, have been the focal point in every PD game except for Orta…and without them, there is NO STORY.
I know there are alot of you out there who will stand in defense of Orta, saying that the PD world has yet to be completely explored, and that there is, perhaps, even greater technology out there that hasn’t been found yet. This isn’t true though, considering the Towers were the Ancients’ ‘greatest achievement’. It may appear that PDS closed the Tower storyline off, but that’s not true either…we still do NOT know their true purpose, and how they were used as weapons in the Ancient Age. There’s plenty of Tower storyline left, and to simply abandon it and go for lesser concepts such as the ‘cradle’ is simply sickening. The PD series has always been about the Towers from day one - and it should be continued.
The story is about the Towers yes.But just because there are no active Towers right now doesn’t mean there is no room for story.There is HUGE margin of progression.I’d like a PD game venturing deep (not too deep) into the Ancients’ story.We don’t know anything about the past.There is a zillion ways to pull off a great story from this world.
Sestren still exists, and while it does there are many things to know/see.
Someone from the academy in search of answers about the Ancient Age.A story around a certain mystery.A puzzle.You know something that would provide room for new information about the Ancient Age.Maybe the seekers were trying to solve the same mystery based on some changed that occured in thw rodl fo Pandra.
Anyways : to answer the topic - I think the much talked about Action/shooter/RPG would be the coolest thing.I like the battle system in Saga but shooting while flying is just something else!There are so many things that could be done in terms of gameplay.Bring the 30 Berserk attacks back, bring back the spiritual/defense/agility/attack morphs.Make us be able to control the dragon’s movements at any time.
I think ignoring the shooter part of PD in a future game would be a sin.It doensn’t need to be strictly rail-shooting tho.And RPGing is of course something that must not be ignored either.
i’m okay with 1 out of every 3 PDs being an RPG but i demand at least 2/3rds of the series must have real gameplay. i would also accept the compromise that i suggested a while back, which was to have it be a bit like the sonic adventure system. there would be peaceful free flying segments like in saga but they would lead to rail shooter action stages.
To be honest, I’d be more dissapointed if these things actually were the focus of a new PD RPG; all of these things are storyline-specific (rather than world-specific) elements that were seen and covered and explored in PDS. When most people buy a new game they tend to want a new game, not a remake of what’s gone before; if they wanted to see these things again, all they’d need to do is plug in their Saturns…
Most of the fairly detailed and well-developed Panzer Dragoon world exists independently from the Towers. We didn’t even know what the Towers did until the very end of Panzer Dragoon Saga, and there was hardly “no story” up until that point; even without the Towers, the PD world has more depth and development than any number of fictional worlds.
How is this “not true”, exactly? These are speculative opinions about the future of a fictional world that has not been decided yet…
I’m sure we’ve had this debate before Kadamose, and Panzer Dragoon Saga did indeed tell us what the Towers’ purpose was (even quite thoroughly in the English translation of the game): they were designed to control the world by manipulating its environment and suppressing human races with the aid of bio-monsters. They may also have “burned continents” when they were originally activated, or this could be Imperial legend or just something that was added in translation. You might be forgetting that PDS was envisioned as the end of the series; if Team Andromeda had any more ideas for the Towers, they would almost certainly have been covered in that game.
Perhaps the PD series is “about the Towers” for you, but surely you recognise that your opinions are not law? I get the impression that for most fans, the series is about an original and well-developed fictional world and the great gameplay that the four games have to offer, not one individual plot element.
Perhaps the PD series is “about the Towers” for you, but surely you recognise that your opinions are not law? I get the impression that for most fans, the series is about an original and well-developed fictional world and the great gameplay that the four games have to offer, not one individual plot element.[/quote]
…and I believe that closed Lance’s 1337th post. Three Huzzahs for Way! (we need an :anjou_party: emoticon!)
I’d certainly concur with Lance here. Although certainly the Towers cast a long shadow over the world, they are not the only protagonists or antagonists to mould it in a manner more pleasing to them - we shouldn’t forget that for a substantial part of Saga the story was nothing more than Edge gunning for Craymen. As Gash said in the Cainus FMV - “Revenge, eh? Good a reason as any.” And until I played Saga I didn’t even know what Shelcoof was other than a generic ‘nasty evil thingy’. I think those two examples illustrate that Panzer Dragoon is more than the Towers.
Rather, I’d say that the pivot about which the story revolves in none other than the dragons. For one, the games are named after them , and for two, although we can bicker over petty semantics over whether each dragon is Lagi or a different creature, we can’t deny that a prime essence of continuity runs through all of them. Perhaps that is the prime focus of the games - labouring over consistency to gel them all into a seamless microuniverse?
Concerning the issue of rail-shooters - I personally think that shoot-'em-ups and RPGs should continue in tandem, with indivdual future games being one of either. I think one of the prime attractions of the shoot-'em-up is that we genuinely have a potent sense of the fearsome wrath unleashed by the dragon, as the environment itself changes and responds, whether it is ruins collapsing or stricken airships sputtering out of drive. Although I certainly have no desire to denigrate the RPG - it’s my favourite genre, after all - you have to admit that being whisked out of a combat arena and dumped back onto the pristine dungeon map, completely unblemished despire the scale of the titanic struggle you’ve just laboured through does blunt the edge of awe we’re supposed to marvel at.
If you cast your minds back to my very first few posts on this forum, I set out my own Panzer Dragoon V as a rail shooter (when am I going to get that letter of commission from Sega?). I think that might help to show that the Panzer Dragoon naturally presents itself as a game of action, even whilst there is a world behind it to more sedately explore.
the wording of this poll is engineered to divide the votes in favor of action between two different options with similar meaning. i cannot help but be reminded of the insidious nature of the green party in the US elections.
Hey, the green party barely got 1 percent of the vote ;).
Anyway, to answer the question HELL NO. I love the shooters. PD is the last great rail shooter left.
Any in response to critizations of PDO’s story…it was damn good. Better then the past shooters (however, not as deep as Saga’s). I felt they did it pretty well, considering it’s a 6 hour rail shooter. PDO left room for an RPG sequel (what with a new dragon pup being revealed in the end). There is still much to explore in the PD world. History of the Ancients (which has barely been dabbled in) the current plight of man kind, and the Empire.
you know what I don’t get? the empire (and the imperial capital!) was wiped out in Saga, still the Empire came back. Yeah yeah southern Islands, muble jumble…
The tower network got only deactivated, not destroyed, still people say they can’t be brought back as a story hook. I just don’t get that.
Ehem, seriously though, I’d love more Panzer Dragoon RPG games, but the “main” games in the series should stay rail-shooters, IMO. There are very few rail shooters nowadays, so Orta really stood out, not to mention was a damn good game of it’s own right. I probably enjoyed Saga more, but I wouldn’t want the PD series to completely switch over to being RPGs. Then again, I’d take ANY kind of Panzer Dragoon game at this point.
damn get over it, railshooters just don’t sell anymore.
arcade style games were ok 15 years ago, today people want interactive storytelling, not virtual toys.
[quote=“lordcraymen”]damn get over it, railshooters just don’t sell anymore.
arcade style games were ok 15 years ago, today people want interactive storytelling, not virtual toys.[/quote]
So what happend to staying true to the series ?.
I’m all for having the best of both worlds a ORTA II, and a SAGA II. OTRA did sell over 200,000 copies not bad for a on-rail shooter and given SEGA sh8t markerting, and the fact that SOA missed the Christmas silly season (even though the game was done).
Plus another thing ORTA sold some 70,000 copies in JP. Which makes it one of the best selling X-Box in Japan.
I believe that the guy who delayed the game until after Christmas did so to ensure that there was time to refine the game, and make sure that it was released as a quality product. If the game had come out earlier in America, it would have come out even earlier in Japan, and may have ended up rushed.
Anyway, I’d like to another rail shooter, but I don’t think it is financially reasonable to expect Sega to release another rail shooter any time soon. An RPG or a free flying shooter is more likely to have more appeal to today’s gamers, and there’s no reason why those type of games can’t be just as good, if not even better, and yet still keep the Panzer feel to their gameplay.
PDO was not bad, but the game had betwixt and between state. I suspect the person who plotted PDO wanted to make a RPG in fact. Nevertheless, I don’t need PDO-2 as a RPG. Good RPG needs one or more good storytellers at least, though I think that Sega doesn’t have such persons now. Do you want to see a character like Mobo in new PD RPG? I say, “No”. I wouldn’t like to see bondage-fashion and smell something of Lolita Complex things in PD games, nevermore.
I want to see an advanced rail shooting game except for PDO. I don’t know Sega’s financial circumstances. However, RPG needs much money and workers rather than the rail shooting…
[quote=“lordcraymen”]you know what I don’t get? the empire (and the imperial capital!) was wiped out in Saga, still the Empire came back. Yeah yeah southern Islands, muble jumble…
The tower network got only deactivated, not destroyed, still people say they can’t be brought back as a story hook. I just don’t get that.[/quote]
1.The Empire is that - an Empire.If you destroyed Rome would the whole Roman Empire fall?And I’m sure the dragon dind’t fight all of the Imperial fleet in order for us to say the Empire was completely defenseless.I don’t like the new Empire myself but I reckon an Empire could have survivedthe Great Fall.
2.The Towers are beacons of knowledge and things that connect us to the Ancient Age.I would feel sad if they were to be destroyed.I’m not saying they need to be a central part of the next story but I think they should be featured in one way or another.
[quote=“lordcraymen”]damn get over it, railshooters just don’t sell anymore.
arcade style games were ok 15 years ago, today people want interactive storytelling, not virtual toys.[/quote]
So what happend to staying true to the series ?.
I’m all for having the best of both worlds a ORTA II, and a SAGA II. OTRA did sell over 200,000 copies not bad for a on-rail shooter and given SEGA sh8t markerting, and the fact that SOA missed the Christmas silly season (even though the game was done).
Plus another thing ORTA sold some 70,000 copies in JP. Which makes it one of the best selling X-Box in Japan.[/quote]
Which means there will definitely be a sequel. The question is of course will it be another rail shooter or another RPG?
I’m all for having the best of both worlds a ORTA II, and a SAGA II. OTRA did sell over 200,000 copies not bad for a on-rail shooter and given SEGA sh8t markerting, and the fact that SOA missed the Christmas silly season (even though the game was done).
Plus another thing ORTA sold some 70,000 copies in JP. Which makes it one of the best selling X-Box in Japan.
Which means there will definitely be a sequel. The question is of course will it be another rail shooter or another RPG?[/quote]
I wouldn’t be so sure. Smilebit were hoping for sales of 500,000 plus in the USA alone. ORTA only sold just over 200,000 world wide
Were they honostly hoping for over 500,000 in the US? That seems kind of high. None of Saturn made especially high numbers and yet three games were made. I have no doubt a sequel will be made like Goonboy said.
Otogi had a sequel made and that had less than stellar numbers in this day and age.
, and for two, although we can bicker over petty semantics over whether each dragon is Lagi or a different creature, we can’t deny that a prime essence of continuity runs through all of them. Perhaps that is the prime focus of the games - labouring over consistency to gel them all into a seamless microuniverse?
