How do you feel about piracy and software licences?

Although some people have solid feelings either way, I find that piracy is a very grey topic. On the one hand you’ve got companies who are clearly getting ripped off by people copying their albums or software and selling it. On the other hand their are ‘innocent’ people who are watching a DVD in a school or on an oil rig but are breaking the law because you aren’t allowed to watch them in front of large audience! Both of these acts are classed as breaking the law, yet there is certainly a major difference in my opinion.

Then you come to software licenses. Some of these are ridiculous in my opinion. You buy a copy of Windows XP Pro, but you can’t install it on more than one machine at once, even if you’re not using them at the same time. You download an MP3 to sample an album to see if you want to buy it and you’re breaking the law. Downloading a ROM of, for example, Rocket Knight Adventures for the Megadrive, a game that isn’t sold new anymore, is illegal. You make a back up of a recent piece of computer software, but even that can be classed as breaking the law now.

The question is, how do you feel about the software business and the way licensing is set up? And how far you would you go (in terms of breaking copyright law). I personally don’t have much respect for the way that licensing works and I’m prone to ignoring it. After all, you can do what you like with most other things you buy so long as it doesn’t effect anyone else… why should it be any different with software?

I copy when I want a game for fun (if it’s a fav I just buy it)(i.e. : not for simple fun ;)),or when i want software.

I couldn’t care less about companies losing money and the such cause quite frankly they aren’t very smart anyways.

Windows:it was always a rip-off.The day I buy and actually register my win will bw the day that I die.Why do i copy?Cause I can that’s why!

I never buy pirate CDs or games. Reason? If you can d/l them for free then you shouldn’t have to pay some damn pirate for it.

But then again, I only download it if it meets two criteria.

  1. I really, really, really want it.
  2. I can’t find it anywhere other than Ebay.

Sega is one of the few companies that actually supports emulation… for a price of course. I have no qualms about downloading the ROM of a game I already own, or have bought at one point in time.

As for piracy, well I believe karma is coming back to haunt companies for overpricing games and music for so long. LMAO.

I never buy pirated games or DVd… because they’re shit quality.

I don’t see the need to buy pirated software. There’s no point in supporting these people. However, when no one loses either way (for example, you download a game) I don’t see any harm in that, especially if it can’t be bought new anymore.

Sega should release some of it’s Saturn lineup for PC outside of Japan. If they don’t, then who can blame people for pirating hard to find games such as PDS or Radiant Silvergun?

Sega should do a lot of things.

I don’t think anyone has a problem with copying game CDs that are out of print. My conscience will be guilt-free anyway.

lol, yeah, sega should do a hell of a lot of stuff…like make SF3 scenario 2…and so on…

A woman came into work today and asked if we sold 'game copiers’
We told her we don’t and they’re illegal, she blushed and left. I get the feeling her son (who apparently asked her) isn’t in for a quiet night…

Only in the Midlands, eh Pete :slight_smile:

Granted, my view of this subject matter may be somewhat colored by my current employment, I see nothing justifiable in piracy.

Copyright laws exist for a reason. Though there will always be instances where the applicable laws might seem ridiculous (i.e. the “showing a movie at school” example), but laws need to be sweeping in their effect, otherwise, there are too many loopholes for ne’er do wells to sneak through and justify their actions.

Take the Windows license agreement, for instance. This is to prevent, say, a company from going around and installing the same copy of Windows on hundreds of computers within their office. It would also create plenty of loopholes for individual users to share disks with their friends. As is the case with laws governing any other intellectual property matter (or even criminal law, for that matter), you must create black and white laws, or else you’re just asking for people to come and challenge the letter of the law.

As for emulators, if the company still owns the copyright for that game, they still have the exclusive rights to sell it. It doesn’t matter whether or not it is available in the marketplace. Most companies will not care if you download a ROM for a game that they made back in 1982, but what if that company decides to put together a compilation of classic games as companies are sometimes wont to do? Take a look at Atari, Namco, etc. They’ve got compilations of many of their old games. If you were to download a ROM of, say, Robotron, you’d be robbing them of a potential sale. Sure, compilations aren’t available for every game on the planet, but the potential for companies to release them is there, therefore making it reasonable for companies to deny people from downloading ROMs.

Now, onto piracy. There is no excuse for piracy. Period. Games are not a right, they are a privelidge. A luxury. If you cannot afford to purchase a game that you want to play, YOU DON’T HAVE THE RIGHT TO HAVE IT. End of story. Just because you cannot afford a Porsche, doesn’t mean you have the right to drive one, right? Same thing.

Endow: That’s really a despicable way of thinking. People’s livelihoods rest on game sales. Your statement basically says to me, “I don’t care about anyone else, as long as I get anything I want for free.”

Solo: To answer your question, though, is that with software, you’re dealing with information, not just a product. Companies that create that information (i.e. game data, etc.) have the right to control the manner in which it is distributed. Licensing agreements are laws put into effect that are meant to do that. Most companies don’t care what you do with your software within the privacy of your own home… as long as you aren’t distributing it, making copies for multiple use, etc.

Yeah, try telling that to the RIAA. Interestingly enough, we haven’t heard anything about the RIAA for several weeks now. They have become yet another pathetic 9-day wonder for the Media, along with the name “Lyndsey Armstrong”.

I would bet a lot of money on you people not knowing who she is, sadly, but that’s another topic.

I’ll say my viewpoint again. I don’t pirate games, or films. I download music from the Internet if a) it’s unobtainable otherwise or b) the feckin CD won’t play because of “Anti-Copying” software which is more like “anti-listening” software, as it makes the CD’s unplayable on 75% of players. I bought 13 Shades of Grey last summer and still haven’t listened to it all the way through, since it won’t play on my Walkman.

The RIAA is a whooooole 'nother can 'o worms, my friend :smiley:

The music industry in particular needs to learn to accept the existence of mp3’s and learn how to use it to their advantage.

[quote=“Abadd”]Copyright laws exist for a reason. Though there will always be instances where the applicable laws might seem ridiculous (i.e. the “showing a movie at school” example), but laws need to be sweeping in their effect, otherwise, there are too many loopholes for ne’er do wells to sneak through and justify their actions.

Take the Windows license agreement, for instance. This is to prevent, say, a company from going around and installing the same copy of Windows on hundreds of computers within their office. It would also create plenty of loopholes for individual users to share disks with their friends. As is the case with laws governing any other intellectual property matter (or even criminal law, for that matter), you must create black and white laws, or else you’re just asking for people to come and challenge the letter of the law.[/quote]

That’s understandable. It is worth adding that whatever the law is, people are always going be right on the brink of abiding by it. Take the legal drinking age for example. Over here, the legal age used to be 20. However, statistics showed that a lot of 18 and 19 year olds were heavy drinkers too. So what did they do? They lowered the drinking age to 18 to make it legal. Of course after that, 16 and 17 seemed to become a common age.

I’d say that it does matter. Take Panzer Dragoon Saga for example. This game is almost impossible to find for a reasonable price. What’s a gamer supposed to do? Well there are two options. Either he can pay around US$100 to $200 for a game that Sega does not make any money from or he could just copy/download the game and potentially use the money he would have paid on a new game. I already own the game (I bought it when it came out), but if I hadn’t then I’d feel totally justified ‘pirating’ it. Sega hasn’t offered any other reasonable alternatives, so there is no harm in doing so. Nobody misses out on anything except some seller on eBay (who will probably find another person to sell it to anyway).

With a car that’s different though. To drive a car without buying one you’d probably have to steal one. Most people would agree that stealing is wrong. But piracy? It’s merely making a copy. If you couldn’t afford it anyway, or weren’t prepared to pay the price that it was sold at, then who loses from it? No one. In a sense, there is a gain because the pirate gets to appricate the game. If I were a game designer I’d rather someone got to experience my game through an illegal copy than not at all. Yes I understand that there are people who don’t buy games at all, and just pirate, but often good can come out of piracy - for example, they might go out and actually buy the sequel if they enjoyed the pirated copy of the first game.

While I can understand why these laws are in place, it does seem that some software companies have a little too much control (legally) over what I can do with software I have bought. If I had two PCs in my home, but only had one copy of Windows XP I wouldn’t be allowed to have it installed on both machines at once. Surely for private home you should be allowed to do this, but no, to legally do so I’d have to folk out for another copy of the same program. That doesn’t seem reasonable or fair to me.

Just a question but isnt the version of giri giri hosted on this site an illegal version?

No, cause Emulators are not illegal in themselves, it’s the downloaded games that run on them.

[quote=“Solo Wing Dragon”]
I’d say that it does matter. Take Panzer Dragoon Saga for example. This game is almost impossible to find for a reasonable price. What’s a gamer supposed to do? Well there are two options. Either he can pay around US$100 to $200 for a game that Sega does not make any money from or he could just copy/download the game and potentially use the money he would have paid on a new game. I already own the game (I bought it when it came out), but if I hadn’t then I’d feel totally justified ‘pirating’ it. Sega hasn’t offered any other reasonable alternatives, so there is no harm in doing so. Nobody misses out on anything except some seller on eBay (who will probably find another person to sell it to anyway).[/quote]

Which, as a gamer, is an understandable dilemma, but I go back to my original point: you don’t have the right to own it if you didn’t purchase it. It’s not like, say, food or something that you need to survive. It’s a luxury item that if you cannot find, cannot afford, etc., then you simply don’t have the right to own it. Sure, some people say, “I burned a copy to play, but if I ever find a legit copy on sale, I’d buy it, too.” And on a personal basis, to me, that’s acceptable. But, by and large, the general populace does not abide by those rules, and it’s impossible to work things like that into the letter of the law. My point being, if you can’t find it, well, that doesn’t give you the right to obtain it by less than legal means. Sucks, but that’s life.

[quote=“Solo Wing Dragon”]
With a car that’s different though. To drive a car without buying one you’d probably have to steal one. Most people would agree that stealing is wrong. But piracy? It’s merely making a copy. If you couldn’t afford it anyway, or weren’t prepared to pay the price that it was sold at, then who loses from it? No one. In a sense, there is a gain because the pirate gets to appricate the game. If I were a game designer I’d rather someone got to experience my game through an illegal copy than not at all. Yes I understand that there are people who don’t buy games at all, and just pirate, but often good can come out of piracy - for example, they might go out and actually buy the sequel if they enjoyed the pirated copy of the first game.[/quote]

Is it so different? By stealing a car, you are denying that company’s right to profit from its product. By pirating a game, you are denying a company’s right to profit from the sale. Especially if you then upload the image to the internet, thereby allowing thousands of people to access that stolen product. The whole “I couldn’t afford it anyway, so nobody is losing out if I pirate it” argument is nothing but hogwash to justify (and I don’t mean this as a personal attack) greed. Like I mentioned above, if you cannot afford it, you don’t have the right to own it. Pure and simple. If you can’t afford it, save your money to buy it. Rent it. Play it through the plethora of other legal means you have available to you. Too many gamers nowadays feel like they should be able to play whatever game they want, regardless of whether or not they have the money. When I was growing up, you had to save your own money to buy a game, and even if it sucked, you played the hell out of it. And you learned from the experience, and grew more cautious of which games you bought, which developers to trust, etc.

If you think that developers would rather have people “experience” their games rather than purchase them, you are sorely wrong. Independent developers go out of business almost every day because they don’t have the massive marketing and development dollars that a company like Rockstar or EA has, so they are relegated to making small budget games. And when those get pirated, they lose out on a lot of potential profit to help grow their business. What happens? They go out of business, leaving developers and their families without incomes for god knows how long.

Some good comes of piracy? That’s MAYBE true 1% of the time. If someone buys a sequel to a game they liked because they pirated it, well, why didn’t they just buy the first game? Perhaps there WON’T be a sequel because so many people pirated the original? Perhaps the company could have made the sequel even better if people had just bought the game, so they could have had more money to spend on the sequel? Perhaps the independent developers of the world could create more creative and innovative experiences if they knew their games would at least sell enough to make a profit, rather than only sell 20,000 copies (yet, there would probably be 50,000 copies in the market). There is no proof to back up any statement that piracy can help the industry, other than pure speculation.

[quote=“Solo Wing Dragon”]
While I can understand why these laws are in place, it does seem that some software companies have a little too much control (legally) over what I can do with software I have bought. If I had two PCs in my home, but only had one copy of Windows XP I wouldn’t be allowed to have it installed on both machines at once. Surely for private home you should be allowed to do this, but no, to legally do so I’d have to folk out for another copy of the same program. That doesn’t seem reasonable or fair to me.[/quote]

Again, it’s about loopholes. What if you run a business from your home? What if you say that you owned a computer and gave the computer to your friend with Windows installed on it? There would be too many gray areas if you were to start allowing programs to be installed on multiple computers. It’s the same with music. Making mp3s of your music is not illegal. But, playing mp3s on your computer, while your brother is listening to the CD in another room is illegal. There’s just no other way to control the spreading of copies. It’s a necessary evil. It doesn’t have to be fair.

I thought this version of giri giri was a hacked one from something sega produced?

It is not the gamer’s right to pirate that game, but is it right for them not to have that right? :slight_smile: As you put it, it sucks if a gamer can not get their hands on a rare or sold out title and if they can’t then there is absolutely no harm to anyone in pirating it. The potential for a sale isn’t there, because the game isn’t avalible. Understandably, the laws need to be there, but my concience will always be clear when downloading a ROM or ISO and that’s the main thing that matters.

Not if you weren’t going to buy the game anyway. Sure there are people who only pirate, and would never buy a game unless they couldn’t pirate, but there are those who will copy a game because they couldn’t afford it, wanted to try it out, or a number of other reasons.

I understand that you’re just voicing your opinion, no worries there. But the statement about greed could be reversed quite easily. I could say that companies are being greedy by basically saying “If I can’t have it (the money) then why should anybody get to experience it?” Obviously this statement makes out game companies like a spoilt child, which I don’t believe is true, but it is a simular form of reasoning. There’s nothing greedy about wanting to play a game (and doing so) that you couldn’t afford otherwise if it doesn’t deprive anyone else of anything.

There isn’t always a legal means. Importing games, for example, is borderline legal (as far as I know, or is it actually illegal?). Renting old or import games usually isn’t possible (or in the case of some places it’s not possible to rent Xbox games, ask Arcie).

I’m certainly not supportive of game companies going out buisness because of piracy. I’m always keen to support a creative games that are released and can tell you that I’ve bought at least 10 brand new Xbox games in the last year. But if I were a game designer I would rather someone experience the game through an illegal copy than not at all. Of course I’d rather they purchase the game new, but sometimes that isn’t an option.

Perhaps they couldn’t afford it at the time, but when the sequel came out they could. Or the original game was copied after the time when it was avaliable (for example, playing a copy of Panzer Dragoon Saga might encourage someone to go out a buy Panzer Dragoon Orta which could only be a postive thing). But I see your point about this being unlikely, or that it very rarely helps the game industry.

[quote=“vyper03”]

I thought this version of giri giri was a hacked one from something sega produced?[/quote]

As far as I know, the author of GiriGiri is anonymous.