Why do I feel like such a loner in my thinking that Shenmue is totally and completely overrated? :anjou_embarassed: Though not as overrated as Grand Theft Auto and FF VII, I might add.
Golden Sun? Que? Where the heck is Shining Force III or Dragon Force?
1st game for sure .
The 2nd game though, is one of the best games I’ve ever had the pleasure to play. It was like taking part in a interative Kung Fu Epic by Chan , and oh my was the last disc magical and a experience quite unlike any other game , and oh my that Music.
Shame , I think the market is more ready for a game like Shenmue now .
I have to believe Shenmue had some influence on the development of GTA3, not that it couldn’t have happened on it’s own just, nothing ever springs out of thin air. And as much as I respect GTA for the benchmark it is, I do think it’s been given far too much credit for ‘inventing’ the sandbox genre. Almost like how Microsoft ‘invented’ the personal computer…
Not that I could stick with either of the games actually, and I do think Shenmue had a ton of outright flaws, the player reinforcements were all working against one another. From the little I tried of the second it certainly seemed to have figured out the priorities much better, but I couldn’t be very interested at that point anyway.
One way that I thought would be an interesting way to approach the Panzer series would be to make a game that was an awesome standalone action RPG, but not call it Panzer. You play through the game and it isn’t until the end that fans realize it’s actually a game set in the Ancient era of the Panzer world, and you bear witness to the birth of the first Dragon 
That sounds really cool Abadd, but there’s way too many hallmarks of the scenario to keep most fans in the dark for any length of time. Especially since it’s (seemingly?) very solidly established that even the Towers themselves were around already, and the dragons created as a result of reactions to the Towers.
As much as I like the idea of a game not from the perspective of a dragon rider in theory, and I also understand many people have differing main attachments to this story… the dragon is still very much my own primary attachment. Anything else could only be a side story for my sensibilities.
[quote=“Heretic Agnostic”]That sounds really cool Abadd, but there’s way too many hallmarks of the scenario to keep most fans in the dark for any length of time. Especially since it’s (seemingly?) very solidly established that even the Towers themselves were around already, and the dragons created as a result of reactions to the Towers.
As much as I like the idea of a game not from the perspective of a dragon rider in theory, and I also understand many people have differing main attachments to this story… the dragon is still very much my own primary attachment. Anything else could only be a side story for my sensibilities.[/quote]
I see what you mean, but a side story wouldn’t be bad either. I enjoyed Gundam 0079 side story for Dreamcast, and you didn’t play as the Gundam at all. I think it would be a cool way to flesh out more of the story. How about a game where you play as one of the Seekers?
Nice idea, and that’s something that I would like to see if it was done well. Although I imagine there would be a number of upset Panzer fans when they found out that it didn’t match their vision of the Ancient Age. It would also be extremely hard to keep a secret as Heretic says, although I don’t think that would necessarily hurt the game.
From the Old Diary:
Even in the Ancient Age, there
were people against the presence
of the Towers. The Towers’
creators feared these rebels would
rise to destroy the Towers, so
they created monsters to guard
their creations. And the dragons.
I’m not sure if there’s any more that could be done with Lagi’s story unless there was a prequel where you play as the Sky Rider. So, the next game would either need to be about another dragon (such as Lagi’s heir at the end of Panzer Dragoon Orta), or not focus on a dragon as much. I’d like to play a Panzer game where you get the dragon half way through the game. There’s plenty of potential for a game where you play as a weak character, rather than - lets face it - the strongest creature in the world. The Panzer Dragoon games have always portrayed a world where people live in fear and struggle to survive, but the main characters don’t do a great deal of hiding and trying to stay alive after they come into contact with the dragon.
Heh… Of course there would be a lot of things that fans would likely recognize, but it’s possible to hide them long enough that most people (even die hard fans) wouldn’t realize what they were until halfway through the game. Hell, changing the name of the Towers would be enough to distract most people (as the Ancients likely called them something else).
Not that this game would ever get made, but still…
I think our Panzer game discussions of the past had some good ideas. Any kind of game is possible and I’d probably buy anything if it was done with care…
Puzzle : Some sort of clever Sestren hacking game.
RTS: Seekers or Meccania vs the Empire. I’d prefer Seekers, much different units.
Adventure: Uncover the Ancients’ secrets (within a Tower?) Exile style.
Action RPG: What Abadd said, doesn’t have to be during the Ancient Age.
Action Adventure: As above, less RPG.
Strategy RPG: See RTS, done like Ogre Battle with PDS’ combat ideas included.
As for story, there’s so many different perspectives the story based games could be seen from… Ancient Age (Blade Runner game?) would be neat, same goes for an Imperial city based story (Shenmue?) as would be the life of a Seeker (Wasteland/Fallout?). Again, give me ANYTHING so long as it’s made with care…
Since Orta makes a guest appearence in OutRun 2 SP, I say we make a totally insane SEGA cross over game that somehow connects tits and ferraris with dragons.
Yeah!!!
That would actually be awesome.
[quote=“Chizzles”]I say we make a totally insane SEGA cross over game that somehow connects tits and ferraris with dragons.
Yeah!!!
That would actually be awesome.[/quote]
O.o
Panzer Dragoon Vier: Dragon Racer.
You know it would rock.
Actually, after reading Alex’s ideas there and reflecting on Futatsugi’s own thoughts in 1UP’s semi-recent PD Cover Story, I have to retract my previous statement. The Panzer concept is a strong, simple, and powerful one and, if executed in an artistic and tactful manner fitting of the series, quite possibly could thrive in a variety of genres.
I guess my “problem” with Orta is that it didn’t cover new ground, when after Saga I guess I just sort of expected it to (even though I knew full-well it was another rail-shooter). Zwei (which I’m starting to appreciate the more I play it, and Rez, and drawing parallels between the two) made sense because the first game was a “rough draft” to Zwei’s “final copy”. After perfecting the shooter, they moved onto the RPG. They sure as hell perfected that, so I guess seeing another rail-shooter feels a bit wonky to me.
As an aside, sometimes I hate being a n00b to this series. Alex’s mentioning of “Panzer game discussions of the past” makes me feel a bit regretful, as I wish I could have been on this boat a looong time ago… 
I seem to recall a somewhat widely held misconception for a little while that Skies of Arcadia was connected to the PD world, all based on certain visual references. So I still think it’d be really hard to hide Abadd. 
…
But OK… here’s the most general setup for the super awesome coolest Panzer Dragoon sequel ever that I’ve dreamed about since within weeks after playing Azel. Greatly adjusted since Orta and generally tweaked over time of course, but the fundamentals haven’t really changed:
Any great PD game needs to begin with a cinema that just throws you into the world, and that moment of time, without a safety helmet, right?
This one witnesses a small girl playing around several very impressive looking people, in an equally impressive - if not too ostentatious looking - balcony hall or something, perhaps overlooking an escarpment. The main sense is that this is a large fortified dwelling, a keep of sorts. I’ve never tried to define actual dilogue or anything, but the grownups are discussing important and troublesome matters, and are about to find out their discussion comes too late… as loud blasts of energy crash in from outside, and maybe an assassin’s missiles from the shadows of a door find a mark, as one of the largest of the figures exclaims his pain and reels.
Almost immediately new sounds join the chaos from outside, alien and familiar, terrible and thrilling voices. Shadows and glimpses cross the open view from the hall, and the destruction no longer penetrates to these walls, as the other figures have also drawn weapons and rushed to guard their wounded member and the girl. But something about the picture may yet be askew, not all are reacting as one would expect… and truly, no matter how well executed the ambush, the chances of defeating dragon riders would seem slim, without the help of someone who wields equal power…
Even then, nothing plays out perfectly to plan. The situation becomes desperate but the fight is far from over, the injured man is doing what he can to protect the girl as they are both being protected, one or two others join their dragons in the larger battle. A decision is made by the last two who still defend the girl and their weakened comrade, a man and woman united in a growing resolve and resignation. Neither of their charges want to agree to this decision, but the girl must eventually do as her parents say, and the man cannot argue the reason: even though he may wish to sell his life for the couple and their daughter’s, he is in no shape to buy them that escape, and just as importantly… the injured man’s dragon must also survive.
With this event, a dynasty of sorts comes to an end. An age when a mysterious and exclusive group of people wielded subtle and immeasurable influence over the interactions of every society, their wisdom reinforced by the unparalleled power of the creatures they control (or do the creatures control them? that’s what many believed), as well as the unparalleled knowledge that their even more mysterious “dragon queens” entrusted. Many idolized the dragon riders, some always distrusted and resented them - with good reason at times - most feared them in some way, and of course all envied them on some level or another.
I would never wish to break the integrity of our grand story, this is not a fairy tale about an idyllic world order with just and benevolent watchdogs, betrayed by an evil malcontent and plunged into darkness. On those terms it would basically be the plot of Eragon, and believe me I was really really annoyed when I saw that movie. This scenario has been with me for years… but anyway. As always, the interim history is implicitly very complex and real, the dragon riders are people with ambition as well as ideals, very similar to the seekers in some ways. But of course they have the advantage of a more direct interface with the Ancient relics, or at least their half-drone members do… as well as that little perk of relatively absolute martial power.
But power always finds a way to redistribute itself, and the dragon riders’ little club could have no monopoly on intelligence, ideals, or ambition. Indeed the traitor dragon riders may have been played as pawns to another, but regardless, the popular story has it that none of the true dragon riders survived that battle, and it is certain that the last dragon left alive was not of the betrayers. So while the official Imperial history claims it was their superior new bloods that defeated the tyrannical and impure pretenders’ mounts, only the most insular Imperial citizens actually believe these draconians are as powerful as their legendary forbears.
Of course, no one ‘knows’ anything about the real last dragon… and dragon rider.
After our stage is set, the crippled rider escaping with the girl on his dragon, while her parents make their final stand with their home… the man is going into shock by now, and even being bolstered by his friend it is all he can do to remain conscious. Pressing his gun into the girl’s hands he looks into her face and tells her she must protect them all now. Her parents, their comrades, the dragons, all were protecting her… and now she would need to help protect herself, and his dragon’s child as well.
And this is how the game would begin, with an on-rails chase completely familiar to every Panzer Dragoon fan. Both as training for people who’ve never played a PD game before, and also to initialize existing fans on certain conventions that would be a little different. But of course the real game will not be so limited at all… 
The actual adventure begins many years later. I’ll have to remember who it was, (I’m thinking lagi_webmaster right now but I need to find the topic to be sure) but someone’s suggestion not too long ago, about having to find the dragon, really stuck with me. And so that’s how I now envision our not-so-little-anymore girl’s first step back into the scary world taking place, when her best friend suddenly takes off without any warning or ‘explanation’. And her uncle’s commandment against venturing to any towns or being seen with her dragon pup means nothing to her anymore.
So… I think I’ve said enough… -_-
This should give people a really clear idea of part of the reason I basically loved Orta.
Oh yeah, I was never sure this should even be a Panzer Dragoon game per se… I once had a notion of it being named Dragoon Tanzer.
hmmmm might be just me but i dont really think any of those games you mentioned are overated
lets take FF7, personally i havn’t played mroe than 20 mins of it, but people i know (who i know talk sense about games) have described how good the experience was playing it etc
like the way i feel about PDS and NiGHTS they have the same passion about FF7
so it must have been some game back then imo…
(of course there are alot of idiots that will give the games a bad name and make you hate it, but with FF7 released to such a huge audience you have to expect it… thats why i ind it lucky with PDS and NiGHTS that such a small cult-like following was developed)
Playing Crisis Core made me develop a newfound respect for FFVII. Compared to Crisis Core, FFVII is The Godfather. I tried to refresh my memory of the original a while ago. Gave up after the terrible dialogue and the fifth or so mechanical freak put a bad taste in my mouth, about 15 minutes later.
My problems with Shenmue are slight but numerous. First of all, all its fans build up this aura around it of it being a timeless emotional masterpiece. It’s not. It’s not as interactive as it claims to be. There are many items you can’t manipulate and things you just can’t do. And wow there are sure a lot of people who don’t have a clue. And it’s certainly not art. It’s a cliche bound chop socky kick fest mixed with bits of detective movies. Ryu couldn’t emote to save his butt. He’s the Captain Kirk of martial arts characters. Second, the controls. The itty bitty Dreamcast controller, I’m sure, probably caused more than its fair share of missed inputs in the QTEs. And why is controlling Ryu like steering a tank?!
That said. Playing the mini games in the arcades. Holding jobs. Collecting toys from the vending machines. Fighting the Virtua Fighter style fights. It IS a LITTLE bit of fun.
My problems with Grand Theft Auto are more numerous. GTA III was the only one I’ve played and the only one where I’ve stopped playing TWICE. I have such a seething hatred of this series like you wouldn’t believe. After pounding on the umpteenth recycled no-name background character with the same boring punch animation just for cash; after witnessing the clumsy gun battles and piss poor controls; after taking so many phone calls to “whack this guy or do this thing” and feeling like little more than an errand boy, I got tired of running around as a shallow, stereotypical thug character with no personality or soul. I’m even more pissed off that game after game in this pathetic series consistently scores As and 90s across the board. I’m not saying a game like GTA shouldn’t be made or played by adults(not kids), or that games shouldn’t be violent or shouldn’t have a villain as the main character. I get more enjoyment out of simpler and more artistic games myself. But for crying out loud, at least give the game some personality. Make it fun to play and stop fooling the masses that you’re some sprawling do anything sandbox style masterpiece when you’re clearly nothing of the sort and you’ve got technical issues showing.
/rant
I think the most over-rated aspect of FF games is the Music.
Most of it sounds like the bastard child of Windows’ General Sound Module and a car crash, however people (mind bogglingly) still pay good money for the soundtrack discs.
[quote=“Chizzles”]I think the most over-rated aspect of FF games is the Music.
Most of it sounds like the bastard child of Windows’ General Sound Module and a car crash, however people (mind bogglingly) still pay good money for the soundtrack discs.[/quote]
I do like FFX’s soundtrack. The Hymn of the Fayth has some nice vocals.
I used to dislike the idea somewhat, but now I wouldn’t mind seeing pre-fallen Raziel in a future game. As a matter of fact I would love to see the game set in the time of Kain’s empire.
Yep, that was Iva’s story. I think a lot of people here agree that it was very well made and was a nod to that old PD feel, more so, in a way, than the actual story mode. It really makes you wonder at how awesome a full fledged game in the same vein could be. Admittedly the gameplay portion of Iva’s adventure wasn’t all that special, but it shows that there is life beyond dragon riding.
Kadamose : Definitely agree with you on the Towers. They would always be featured in a sequel were I in charge.
…and how Ico invented emotional connection in videogames and subjectiveness 
I’m a hardcore ICO/SotC fan but I can’t stand some of the self-righteousness behind some of the praise.
No way! You are becoming part of “The Man”, man! Fight the good fight! Someone has to!
Well, we already had PDS. Paet’s ship could be considered the Ferrari of the PD world. Azel is topless throughout the game. You control a dragon during the entire game. There.
I think that’s because you’re Heretic.
Nah, in all fairness, Orta’s story was very good as both a railshooter story and PD raishooter story.
I agree a bit on Dragoon Lover’s comments on Shenmue. I think the magic behind the game was in what it tried to be and in how no one had really tried to do that before. It doesn’t anymore, but it felt life-like at the time when comparing with other games. And it’s set in 80’s. How cool is that!
Oh and I also agree with** Chizzles** as far as FF’s music is concerned. I mean, C’MON!!! I equate it to Hans Zimmer’s movie scores. It’s popcornishly pretentious. Only someone who is new to videogame music can think of it as anything above average. So that makes you a heathen, snowgirlorta!
Solo : You want to mod the forum? Get me a multiquote feature 
No there’s nothing really wrong with Orta’s story… it’s plot however, may be deserving enough of the criticism. Again, I’m sure it might have left me a lot colder, if I hadn’t also been so bemused by how precisely it led into this scenario of mine.
Yet on those same terms, there are two things that I was most immediately annoyed by:
Orta, being a girl… cause you know, I thought it’d be cool to switch things up, and now it’s been done already. 
And similarly, in my scenario the half-drones still had some body patterns marking their other nature. Perhaps even necessary features to retain their abilities, but not running around technically ‘naked’ like Azel, yet marked on arms and neck and such, almost like tribal scarring. I was a little surprised they’d have Orta looking completely human, and it’s probably the most glaring discrepancy in style with what would make things panzerish to me.