Dragon Forms

[Solo_Wing]

I’m preparing a new category in the encyclopaedia called “Dragon Forms”. As you can probably guess, it will contain entries about the Heresy Dragon’s various forms in the series. I welcome any ideas on how to structure this section. So far, I intend to have a separate entry for each dragon form, for example:

Dragon Pup
Windrider
Panzer Wing
Base Wing

etc…

However, there are some forms where is less clear how to structure them.

The Solo Wing, for example, has classes made up of forms from Zwei. As such, each of these classes will have a separate entry already (Windrider, etc). I don’t think it necessary to have a separate entry for the Valiant Wing or Panzer Wing’s different classes since there is not much to say about them, however the Solo Wing probably needs a bit more coverage. So, maybe a general Solo Wing entry, linked to entries for each of the five classes of the Solo Wing (which double as forms in Zwei).

There is an issue of what to name these entries. Solo Wing clearly is not just the blue and white dragon that is its normal class, so that would need to be covered separately from the main Solo Wing entry. However, the name of this normal class is not actually that clear. In Panzer Dragoon the dragon in this form is known only as the “armoured blue dragon” while it is called “Type 01” in Pandra’s Box in Zwei. We could go with “Type 01”, however I’m not sure whether that is referring to the name of the dragon form or the Heresy Dragon itself. The reason being, the dark dragon/Solo Wing spiritual class is referred to as “Type 02” in Pandra’s Box. However, a recent translation of the Azel guidebook (which we intend to add to the site soon) refers to the enemy dragon in the first game as the “Prototype 02”, suggesting that this might be the name of the Dark Dragon itself rather than the dragon form that the dark dragon appeared as. Type 01 could be short for Prototype 01, referring to the Heresy Dragon not the blue dragon form, but I’m only speculating on this last point.

Another issue is how to structure the entries for the dragon forms in Orta. The Base Wing stays the same throughout the game, however the Heavy Wing and Glide Wing go through numerous forms. So, do we have entries for each type of Heavy Wing, or one entry covering all the different types of Heavy Wing? I’m not too knowledgable of the different forms in Orta, so maybe there’s a PDO expert here who can help me out.

[T_LAN]

Well if I may say with categorizing for Orta,
The base wing does go through a change like the other forms, only just its Arrows of light change. From 1 single laser to two in a DNA type Strand to 3 then 4 then 5 and the final form being a rather large laser seeming to be encased in a shell of light. Plus keep in mind the Base wing is the only form that the dragon currently had that could run on land as well if it needed to.
As for entries of each type, could you not do the same? Simply put visual features in along with laser sizes and assumed strength at each level.

As for the Solowing types 1 and 2 along with forms from Zwei, couldn’t you do descriptions for not the four mains again merely saying it leads to those forms but also adding the four diagonal positions there are for in-between each form? In game I found having those combinations worked in favor to the player, at the right times. I don’t remember the forms but having the Type 2 mixed with a form from Zwei was some interesting designs.

Hope this Helped in some way.

[Solo_Wing]

Good points, thanks for the suggestions.

As for the Solowing types 1 and 2 along with forms from Zwei, couldn’t you do descriptions for not the four mains again merely saying it leads to those forms but also adding the four diagonal positions there are for in-between each form? In game I found having those combinations worked in favor to the player, at the right times. I don’t remember the forms but having the Type 2 mixed with a form from Zwei was some interesting designs.

So, are you suggesting that I just create one big “Solo Wing” article for all of the Solo Wing classes (and combinations of classes)? What about when these classes are visible on their own in Panzer Dragoon Zwei… separate entries for these as well? I don’t feel there is much point in having a separate entry for the blue dragon from PD1, but maybe the Type 01 article could mention this, along with linking to the Solo Wing article.

[The_Ancient]

I don’t personally think it needs to be that complicated, technically the “Solo Wing” is just like any other Saga form. So the other shapes, while they may reference the designs of other archetypes, are still *Solo Wing: Agility Form; Solo Wing: Attack Form *etc…

Just hold to the 4 primary sub-designs - 200/100/100/0 - as they represent the artistic archetypes. Or if you weren’t even intending to have images for the sub-forms, then even for the Solo Wing a simple note and/or links to the original designs would suffice.

And as you may or may not remember, this whole Solo Wing aesthetic issue brings out my artistic OCD side anyway. Those sub-forms are NOT the Skydart /Windrider /Brigadewing /Dark Dragon… they’re malformed wannabes. (and for that matter WTF isn’t it guardian D instead of Windrider!?!)

Or if you wanted to get very technical about the actual models, one might label the original in-game model - reused in Zwei and for the ‘ghost dragon’ and Sestren Exsis in Azel - as the “Type 01”; the cinematic model which is also virtually identical to the “Blue Dragon” from Orta; and then the actual “Solo Wing Dragon” from Azel which is unique and distinct.

[Ehndow]

Solo Wing is the fusion of Lundi’s and Edge’s dragon, so I wouldn’t use the name for anything else other than that. Btw, is it called Solo in the Japanese version too?

I’d create a Type01 class for the blue dragon in Zwei and PD1, just like Windrider et others. Sestren Exsis refers to the blue dragon in PD1 as Type01 and so does Pandra’s Box in Zwei. If it’s good enough for TA it’s good enough for TwoTA nay?

[Solo_Wing]

And as you may or may not remember, this whole Solo Wing aesthetic issue brings out my artistic OCD side anyway. Those sub-forms are NOT the Skydart /Windrider /Brigadewing /Dark Dragon… they’re malformed wannabes. (and for that matter WTF isn’t it guardian D instead of Windrider!?!)

But, this may simply be the Saga representation of the Skydart/Windrider/Bridgewing/Type 02. Are they different enough to be classed as different forms, or this simply a different modeling of the same form?

I don’t remember Windrider being called Guardian D… a typo in Zwei?

Or if you wanted to get very technical about the actual models, one might label the original in-game model - reused in Zwei and for the ‘ghost dragon’ and Sestren Exsis in Azel - as the “Type 01”; the cinematic model which is also virtually identical to the “Blue Dragon” from Orta; and then the actual “Solo Wing Dragon” from Azel which is unique and distinct.

That might work. One entry for the “Type 01”, one for the “Solo Wing” (which would include all of its classes). But I think the Solo Wing entry would need to reference the Type 01 entry, since the Solo Wing Normal Class is meant to be the same form. A bit of overlap in the entries is okay though.

Solo Wing is the fusion of Lundi’s and Edge’s dragon, so I wouldn’t use the name for anything else other than that. Btw, is it called Solo in the Japanese version too?

PDO’s Pandora’s Box says that the Blue Dragon is also known as “Solowing”, suggesting that the names are interchangeable.

Sestren Exsis refers to the blue dragon in PD1 as Type01

He does? He says “?Activation of D Type 01? confirmed?” but I thought this was referring to the Dark Dragon…?

[The_Ancient]

But, this may simply be the Saga representation of the Skydart/Windrider/Bridgewing/Type 02. Are they different enough to be classed as different forms, or this simply a different modeling of the same form?

There’s no literal (or even coherent) connection between those sub-classes and the forms they mimic other than the implied visual reference. The real Windrider would be near the bottom rung of this whole ladder in “Attack Power”; The real Brigadewing is tough, but then in Zwei the Type 02 is even tougher AND has stronger lasers; and while the Skydart is definitely agile, it also shoots 12 (or is it 16?) lasers at once…

There is nothing at all to be gained in trying to find much literal sense in that angle. It’s a pure fanservice concern, that’s just how the Solo Wing’s sub-classes happen to look. And without (for now) ranging into that theoretical subject, I emphatically agree the Solo Wing is it’s own type, as a technicality even the Blue Dragon form is only one of it’s sub-classes.

I don’t remember Windrider being called Guardian D… a typo in Zwei?

I only meant for the symmetry of the reference, they should have used the Guardian D form instead of Windrider’s.

That might work. One entry for the “Type 01”, one for the “Solo Wing” (which would include all of its classes). But I think the Solo Wing entry would need to reference the Type 01 entry, since the Solo Wing Normal Class is meant to be the same form. A bit of overlap in the entries is okay though.

Well, I don’t know what sort of template you had in mind already, but I think the most consistent way to arrange them would be according to how they relate to the existing game categorizations. And since there’s no real categorization in the original release, Zwei is the default reference point to start with… but something like this:

Blue Dragon / Type 01 - {Eins, Zwei, Orta}
Dark Dragon / Type 02 - {Eins, Zwei}
+endowed form

Glideling [Windrider etc etc] {Zwei}
Guardian Dragon - {Zwei}
+endowed form
(+revived form {Azel} /necessary?)
Dragon Pup - {Zwei, Orta}

Base Wing - {Azel}
Valiant Wing ]Stripe Wing etc etc] - {Azel}
+sub classes
Light Wing - {Azel}
Solo Wing Dragon - {Azel}
+sub classes
Atolm Dragon - {Azel}
+endowed forms

Base Wing - {Orta}
+evolutions
Heavy Wing - {Orta}
+evolutions
Glide Wing - {Orta}
+evolutions
Dragonmare - {Orta}
+abad’s & evolutions

Otherwise just notes on other incidental references or uses?

[Solo_Wing]

[quote=“The Ancient”]There’s no literal (or even coherent) connection between those sub-classes and the forms they mimic other than the implied visual reference. The real Windrider would be near the bottom rung of this whole ladder in “Attack Power”; The real Brigadewing is tough, but then in Zwei the Type 02 is even tougher AND has stronger lasers; and while the Skydart is definitely agile, it also shoots 12 (or is it 16?) lasers at once…

There is nothing at all to be gained in trying to find much literal sense in that angle. It’s a pure fanservice concern, that’s just how the Solo Wing’s sub-classes happen to look. And without (for now) ranging into that theoretical subject, I emphatically agree the Solo Wing is it’s own type, as a technicality even the Blue Dragon form is only one of it’s sub-classes.[/quote]

Alright, separate entries for “Solo Wing” and “Type 01” it is then.

[quote=“The Ancient”]Well, I don’t know what sort of template you had in mind already, but I think the most consistent way to arrange them would be according to how they relate to the existing game categorizations. And since there’s no real categorization in the original release, Zwei is the default reference point to start with… but something like this:

Blue Dragon / Type 01 - {Eins, Zwei, Orta}
Dark Dragon / Type 02 - {Eins, Zwei}
+endowed form

Glideling [Windrider etc etc] {Zwei}
Guardian Dragon - {Zwei}
+endowed form
(+revived form {Azel} /necessary?)
Dragon Pup - {Zwei, Orta}

Base Wing - {Azel}
Valiant Wing ]Stripe Wing etc etc] - {Azel}
+sub classes
Light Wing - {Azel}
Solo Wing Dragon - {Azel}
+sub classes
Atolm Dragon - {Azel}
+endowed forms

Base Wing - {Orta}
+evolutions
Heavy Wing - {Orta}
+evolutions
Glide Wing - {Orta}
+evolutions
Dragonmare - {Orta}
+abad’s & evolutions

Otherwise just notes on other incidental references or uses?[/quote]

I had something similar to this in mind. However, I planned to create entries for the Dark Dragon, the Guardian Dragon, and Atolm categorised under “Creatures” rather than “Dragon Forms”. So, there would be a Type 02 dragon form entry and a Dark Dragon creature entry, with the Dark Dragon appearing in the Type 02 form (as well as the large serpent form).

I may be mistaken (its been a while since I played Zwei), but it’s possible for Lagi to become the Type 02 if you have just under 100% shot down ratio, correct? In that sense, the Type 02 is not exclusive to the Dark Dragon, so they’d need separate entries. Similarly, the Type 01 and “The Dragon” are separate entries.

There are already entries for Dragonmares and Abadd’s Mare:
thewilloftheancients.com/enc … badds-mare
thewilloftheancients.com/enc … ragonmares

[The_Ancient]

In Zwei you can only use the Type 02 in a box game, as with the Guardian D or Dragon Pup. And like the Blue Dragon, Panzer Wing, or Dragonmares in Orta. Strictly a bonus feature.

Maybe I understand the question a little better now, as I had been thinking more along the lines of all dragon forms, but I see you meant (and made clear in your opening post I know :anjou_embarassed: ) forms of “The Dragon”. As such, if we truly confined that criteria to only legitimate forms seen through ‘normal’ gameplay, then I still wouldn’t even consider the Type 02 necessary or appropriate.

Again, while it may be seen as a part of the Solo Wing, it’s only a facet, and an inconsequential one at that. You mentioned the one other literal connection between the Solo Wing and the Blue Dragon generally, from Orta’s Encyclopedia…

A blue dragon, wrapped in a beautiful white shell. Also called ?Solowing,? it has a distinctive long horn, reminiscent of the ramming horns of ancient battleships.

But here’s the catch: if we read much into that reference then… it’s literally implying that the “Solowing” is ONLY the Blue Dragon form, isn’t it? So I might then use it as evidence that the other forms truly mean nothing at all.

Which I wont, but at the same time, I honestly think it’s a case of echoing the fan community’s own casual conflation of the labels, as much as anything. Which I’ve also never had any issue with, we generally understand what is meant by “Solo Wing” according to context. But once things get technical…

Even if those aesthetic distinctions matter too much with me - and perhaps not at all for most - lumping the literal Solo Wing Dragon together with the BD/Type 01 generally, begets unnecessary thematic complications. Solo Wing is the only Blue Dragon incarnation that can morph at will, so at the very least: either it is truly unique, OR those other forms should just be completely ignored.

Which I don’t actually care to pick either absolute, it just seems to me like one absolute necessarily precludes the other?

[Solo_Wing]

In Zwei you can only use the Type 02 in a box game, as with the Guardian D or Dragon Pup. And like the Blue Dragon, Panzer Wing, or Dragonmares in Orta. Strictly a bonus feature.

Hmm, well that makes the Type 02’s appearance as part of the Solo Wing all the more mysterious. In the context of the story I assumed the baby dragon in Saga was necessary to obtain the Zwei forms, but if Lagi never became that form then where did the Solo Wing spiritual class come from?

Maybe I understand the question a little better now, as I had been thinking more along the lines of all dragon forms, but I see you meant (and made clear in your opening post I know :anjou_embarassed: ) forms of “The Dragon”. As such, if we truly confined that criteria to only legitimate forms seen through ‘normal’ gameplay, then I still wouldn’t even consider the Type 02 necessary or appropriate.

Perhaps we could include entries for the forms of other dragons, but it may not be necessary if there is already a Dark Dragon entry.

[quote=“The Ancient”]Again, while it may be seen as a part of the Solo Wing, it’s only a facet, and an inconsequential one at that. You mentioned the one other literal connection between the Solo Wing and the Blue Dragon generally, from Orta’s Encyclopedia…

A blue dragon, wrapped in a beautiful white shell. Also called ?Solowing,? it has a distinctive long horn, reminiscent of the ramming horns of ancient battleships.

But here’s the catch: if we read much into that reference then… it’s literally implying that the “Solowing” is ONLY the Blue Dragon form, isn’t it? So I might then use it as evidence that the other forms truly mean nothing at all. [/quote]

There’s also the description of the Solo Wing in PDS’s dragon models record which states:

“The dragon has taken the form of one of the ancient dragons that destroyed the Imperial Capital long ago.”

One of the ancient dragons that destroyed the capital? If its referring to the complete Solo Wing including all classes, shouldn’t that be two?

[quote=“The Ancient”]Which I wont, but at the same time, I honestly think it’s a case of echoing the fan community’s own casual conflation of the labels, as much as anything. Which I’ve also never had any issue with, we generally understand what is meant by “Solo Wing” according to context. But once things get technical…

Even if those aesthetic distinctions matter too much with me - and perhaps not at all for most - lumping the literal Solo Wing Dragon together with the BD/Type 01 generally, begets unnecessary thematic complications. Solo Wing is the only Blue Dragon incarnation that can morph at will, so at the very least: either it is truly unique, OR those other forms should just be completely ignored.

Which I don’t actually care to pick either absolute, it just seems to me like one absolute necessarily precludes the other?[/quote]

I think you’ve made a good point - the Solo Wing’s morphing ability does seem to separate it from the Type 01 in an important way. Although, what do we make of the Blue Dragon’s lack of berserk attack in PD1? Does that not also separate it from the Type 01 in PDZ?

[The_Ancient]

These questions are all related for me Solo, as being most readily answered by the axiom: “because it’s a game”. lol

Again you might recall that I once didn’t even like to consider the Solo Wing as anything beyond an Easter Egg, though I’ve since (and fully) relented on that for various reasons - initially cause of some other fun theories. Yet there is a certain principle regarding some details, that I think plainly do not stand up to quite the same degree of scrutiny as the rest.

Of course I love any of the speculation itself, I just can’t get hung up about whether there’s any sort of ‘true’ answer. Or rather I believe there is none. So I do still regard the Solo Wing, shall we say, as the closest thing to being a bonus form like the box game types, that it might get in Azel. Similarly, the only ‘true’ answer actually known for why the strict “Type 01” has a berserk attack and the “Armored Blue Dragon” from Eins doesn’t is that, of course, it was a feature added only for the second game…

But I don’t feel like that’s just finding arbitrary exemptions either, the Solo Wing transformation is distinct by multiple criteria: its first naming; it can morph; it has unique aesthetic features; and it requires a peculiarly convoluted set of circumstances to manifest…

Whereas the Type 01 is the identical model from the first game, and in it’s ‘legitimate’ manifestation has a readily apparent thematic connection with that “Blue Dragon”. If the only answer to why one has a berserk and the other doesn’t, that we can actually know, is"because that’s the way the games are"; it can only lead to madness worrying overly about how that might bear on some naming classifications that are to some degree arbitrary as well. Not that I’m even suggesting you or anyone else is doing so, just rounding out my own perspective here.

It is what it is. Like is the “Blue Dragon” in Orta actually intended to be the Eins dragon - without a berserk - while the “Type 01” is not? Do we REALLY want to go there? Again it’s not even a part of the regular game, yet it is clearly a sentimental nod to the strict and simple origins of the series. And I do allow some details may remain comfortably in that realm.

[Solo_Wing]

I’m inclined to think that the pursuit of truth is really asking the wrong question. The pursuit of consistency is going to be a much more successful goal. Whereas we can’t read the minds of the creators, if indeed there is a “true” answer at all, we can examine the games for clues and piece them together to find a solution that doesn’t contradict other aspects of the series.

Consider the Sky Rider’s identity for example. I doubt Team Andromeda had thought up an identity for him. Nevertheless, that doesn’t mean he doesn’t have an identity within the context of the game world or that the pursuit of clues about his identity isn’t going to narrow the number of possibilities as to who he was. The pursuit of an answer is still valuable even if there isn’t an underlying truth. Plus it takes the fun out of it to just say “TA never thought up an identity, so there isn’t one.”

I’d argue that the same applies with the pursuit of truth in the real world, but that’s another story.

Within the context of the game world, Zwei’s ending lacks meaning if we don’t consider the baby dragon that comes from the crest in Shelcoof as canonical. It would be odd to have included the crest from Zwei in the game at all if it wasn’t meant to have happened.

But getting back to the question at hand - perhaps the difference between the Solo Wing Normal Class and the Type 01 aren’t significant enough for them to be considered separate forms. It seems that this blue dragon form got better in each game - in Zwei it acquired a berserk attack, in Saga it acquired additional classes. It had a separate name in each game - armoured blue dragon, Type 01, and Solo Wing - but the similarities between these forms suggest that they were not meant to be three separate dragon forms. Like the scale difference of Shelcoof in PDS due to modeling differences, there are clearly differences in how the dragons are modeled, but they shouldn’t necessarily be considered different forms because of that when considering their role in the storyline.

[The_Ancient]

I’m inclined to think that the pursuit of truth is really asking the wrong question. The pursuit of consistency is going to be a much more successful goal. Whereas we can’t read the minds of the creators, if indeed there is a “true” answer at all, we can examine the games for clues and piece them together to find a solution that doesn’t contradict other aspects of the series.

I know we’ve had close variations on this same exchange before, and I really have no disagreement with that as such. To clarify, I’m not concerned at all about whether there’s an existing factual answer or not, only about the potential pitfalls of presuming any direction of intent that may be void. Some resolutions, I may avoid seeking just for their own sake, because I don’t like allowing them to weigh on other elements, at least until I feel another definite motive. Even a subjective one…

Consider the Sky Rider’s identity for example. I doubt Team Andromeda had thought up an identity for him. Nevertheless, that doesn’t mean he doesn’t have an identity within the context of the game world or that the pursuit of clues about his identity isn’t going to narrow the number of possibilities as to who he was. The pursuit of an answer is still valuable even if there isn’t an underlying truth. Plus it takes the fun out of it to just say “TA never thought up an identity, so there isn’t one.”

Again I agree with that. The Sky Rider is another case to illustrate my principle of discretion though: while I may feel quite certain the Sky Rider’s identity was never so fleshed out or fixed for the first game, there’s still enough depth, and congruence, to the depiction that many assumptions can feel justified from more than any one anecdotal angle. But also, it is an eminently consequential element of the canon.

I mean of course I want to figure out who/what the Sky Rider really is…

I’d argue that the same applies with the pursuit of truth in the real world, but that’s another story.

A grand argument that would be too, and not an antagonistic one from me either.

Within the context of the game world, Zwei’s ending lacks meaning if we don’t consider the baby dragon that comes from the crest in Shelcoof as canonical. It would be odd to have included the crest from Zwei in the game at all if it wasn’t meant to have happened.

And as I’ve already mentioned I have long since seen the light on that point… lol

Again, the main and really only perspective I’m defending about this is that not every last detail needs to bear the same kind of weight on the canon as another.

But getting back to the question at hand - perhaps the difference between the Solo Wing Normal Class and the Type 01 aren’t significant enough for them to be considered separate forms. It seems that this blue dragon form got better in each game - in Zwei it acquired a berserk attack, in Saga it acquired additional classes. It had a separate name in each game - armoured blue dragon, Type 01, and Solo Wing - but the similarities between these forms suggest that they were not meant to be three separate dragon forms. Like the scale difference of Shelcoof in PDS due to modeling differences, there are clearly differences in how the dragons are modeled, but they shouldn’t necessarily be considered different forms because of that when considering their role in the storyline.

Well, of course this is getting cyclical again. I’m not going to fixate on one answer or another as things stand, so it’s more of a “yes” to all possibilities… the main Solo Wing form is indisputably a version of “the Blue Dragon”… and the Solo Wing Dragon as a whole is also indisputably different from / more than any other incarnation of “the Blue Dragon”… the forms of it’s sub-classes are indisputably taken from other previous incarnations or even enemies… and those forms are indisputably incongruous, in many respects, with the characteristics of those previous incarnations…

But I’ll say that it’s not actually possible for me to entertain the notion that the changes to the Solo Wing game model are incidental. The artistic intent is also, to me, indisputable and unmistakeable. Of course there’s no way I can prove that, or even truly explain it. But it’s about like being shown separate pictures of two brothers - lets say Owen Wilson and Luke Wilson - and being told they’re the same person… yeah they’re almost obviously closely related, but they’re also obviously not the same person.

Neither does any other kind of connection or intent necessarily follow from that artistic intent. But still, no, for me there can be no conflating of contextually precedented discrepancies in relative scale and a few possible tweaks of execution, with the clear, conscious, and even rather comprehensive re-imagining and remolding of proportions that the Solo Wing Dragon model exhibits.

And I do have an arrangement of ideas about all of these issues that I feel fit together well enough, which I’ve discussed almost all of before. Maybe this is a good excuse to attempt consolidating them better, but later…

[Solo_Wing]

To clarify, I’m not concerned at all about whether there’s an existing factual answer or not, only about the potential pitfalls of presuming any direction of intent that may be void. Some resolutions, I may avoid seeking just for their own sake, because I don’t like allowing them to weigh on other elements, at least until I feel another definite motive. Even a subjective one…

I see. Thanks for clarifying your position. It’s understandable that you might want to avoid being too pedantic about certain details, especially if they highlight inconsistencies which could otherwise be overlooked.

When writing the encyclopedia, I feel that I do have a reason to examine the dragon forms closely. It’s a subjective reason for sure (I could just avoid writing about them entirely), but I’d like to categorize the dragons in some way, even if they are loose categorisations. To do this, though, I need to consistent with how I split the dragon forms.

[quote=“The Ancient”]But also, it is an eminently consequential element of the canon.

I mean of course I want to figure out who/what the Sky Rider really is?[/quote]

As stated above, for the encyclopaedia I want to be able to categorise the dragon forms consistently too. Like the Sky Rider entry, I’m happy to list different perspectives on the dragon forms, but I’d like to settle on some way to split them into categories that isn’t arbitrary (or, at least, isn’t as arbitrary as other possibilities).

A grand argument that would be too, and not an antagonistic one from me either.

Maybe I should write an article about this for the site’s (currently quite empty) Philosophy section.

I’ll comment on your other points later.

[Solo_Wing]

I’ve temporarily published the entry I’ve created for the Type 01. Perhaps you could have a read over it and suggest some changes, The Ancient?
thewilloftheancients.com/enc … ia/type-01

I will create a separate entry for the Solo Wing (which will include all its classes) as well and the two entries will link to one another.

[Ehndow]

I think the key to dragon canons really lie in the Sky Rider’s story.

It does seem strange for Futatsugi & Co to come up with a prequel and a sequel to PD1 at the same time, and not take into consideration the nature of the Sky Rider, even if just as background story to tie everything together.

This probably has been theorized and discussed before, but the only other character to even remotely resemble the Sky Rider in appearance is Azel. His suit looks like an ancient age suit, just like Azel’s, and I think that probably makes him a drone too, specially considering he is not treated as a chosen-by-the-dragon dragon rider like Lundi, Kyle and Edge seem to be.

I just read Geoff’s “The Mystery of the Sky Rider” and yeah it does make sense for him to be a rebel drone.

For me the problem comes up in the last Sestren Exsis orb.

[The_Ancient]

Works fine for me Solo, I do appreciate the allowances for ambiguity. And I think “Type 01” is as good a label as any - as well as the first ‘technical’ designation - for the general archetype.

If you want to be precise, to get the Type 01 transformation playing Zwei, you don’t need 100% shot down, you need over 90% plus taking the ‘highest’ path on episodes 2, 3 and 4. Or to keep it simple perhaps something like: “the most challenging course, with a near perfect score”.

Since you seem to be shooting for completeness, a possible mention of the “ghost dragon” and Sestren Exsis manifestations? And another subjectively important detail, for me, is the fact all other known “dragon crests” - including the one seen in Azel’s opening area, as well as the second one in the Blue Ruins - actually have that same Type 01 design. The only exceptions being those alternate views of the Shelcoof crest, post-destruction.

So have you decided to group the other unique “Wings” by their games? I think that works well, it would be complicated otherwise. Whereas the Type 01 is the ICON, and deserves it’s own entry regardless.

[Ehndow]

I forgot to mention, but while rewatching the FMVs near the end of Saga…I think that if you look closely, the Solo Wing “head” that bids farewell to Edge in Sestren (along with the heads of Light Wing, Arm Wing and Coolia pup)…the shape of its horns and side plates are distinctively different to those of Lundi’s dragons in Saga’s own FMV depicting the final battle in Zwei. And also very close to what seems like an accurate FMV portrayal of the Solo Wing dragon.

It seems to me to imply that the Solo Wing form is not even supposed to look the same as the dragons in Zwei and PD1, but close. Just like the in-game model of Solo Wing is different from Lagi’s ghost (appearing in Shellcoof) and Sestren’s anti-blue dragon appearing in the last battle.

[Solo_Wing]

I just read Geoff’s “The Mystery of the Sky Rider” and yeah it does make sense for him to be a rebel drone.

It’s good to know people actually read the articles on the site.

If you’re interested in this line of argument, it’s worth checking out my “Sky Rider Drone Theory” and Lance’s “Sky Rider and Dark Dragon’s Rider Theory”.

So have you decided to group the other unique “Wings” by their games? I think that works well, it would be complicated otherwise. Whereas the Type 01 is the ICON, and deserves it’s own entry regardless.

Yeah, basically, but the dragon from PD1 won’t have its own entry. So, there will be individual entries for each of the following:

Pup
Hatching
Grinding
Windrider
Armorite
Brigadewing
Skydart
Type 01
Basic Wing
Valiant Wing
Stripe Wing
Panzer Wing
Eye Wing
Arm Wing
Light Wing
Solo Wing
Base Wing
Glide Wing
Heavy Wing

I think that’s all of them.

I’ll address the other points you and Ehndow have brought up when I come to finish the Solo Wing entry.

[Solo_Wing]

[quote=“Ehndow”]I wonder if it has been accurately translated. Why does it say “Impurity Reacquired” with images of the Dark Dragon reaching the Tower? And then says “D Type 01 activated” (with an image of the golden starfish Sestren Ai). Why is the Sestren AI represented by a Blue Dragon in Saga’s final battle?

I don’t understand the sequence of events of that last orb. Why are two units activated at the beggining of PD1 in the Tower?

It doesn’t make sense for none of it to make sense, since everything else does…but this…doesn’t make a whole lot of sense?.:P[/quote]

“Impurity reacquired” probably means that Sestren found the Heresy Dragon again after its absence between Zwei and the first game. The image of the Dark Dragon arriving at the Tower probably symbolizes what the Dark Dragon was ordered to do by Sestren - change into the larger Dark Dragon in order to stop the Heresy Dragon.

The use of D Type 01 is really confusing, since the Dark Dragon is the Type 02 is Pandra’s Box.

Maybe we should get Sestren’s memory orbs re-translated.

The two units might have the Dark Dragon and its rider. Some other possibilities are mentioned at the end of this entry:
thewilloftheancients.com/enc … ital-tower

Sestren appearing as a Type 01 dragon is probably because it and the Heresy Program were very similar, perhaps based on the same codebase. When the Destructive Faction added the Heresy Program to Sestren it would have to be compatible with the Sestren system at least.