Interesting thing is that The Thief series has never been known for its intricate or particularly well-told plot, but rather for its innovative gameplay (for its time).
I’ve never actually played Snatcher, so I can’t comment on that. But from what I’ve heard, the story is a mash-up of Blade Runner and every other sci-fi apocalyptic story out there. Not saying that you can’t make a great story off of existing ideas, but that seems to go against what you’ve claimed as new and innovative.
[quote=“Abadd”]Interesting thing is that The Thief series has never been known for its intricate or particularly well-told plot, but rather for its innovative gameplay (for its time).
I’ve never actually played Snatcher, so I can’t comment on that. But from what I’ve heard, the story is a mash-up of Blade Runner and every other sci-fi apocalyptic story out there. Not saying that you can’t make a great story off of existing ideas, but that seems to go against what you’ve claimed as new and innovative.[/quote]
That’s not what I was trying to get across - the examples I gave were of games that had good writing to them, nothing more. That’s the first thing I always look for in a game: a coherent plot - a purpose.
Also, in regard to innovation, I gave up on that idea long ago, considering there truly is nothing new under the sun and never will be. You can, however, take other ideas and mash them up into different configurations and tell an even better story than the originals. The anime, Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion, is a perfect example of this.
Actually, that’s the first thing I am looking forward to in Starcraft 2: The Single Player Story mode. Starcraft had an excellent story. But the game isn’t revered or even remembered for its story - it’s remembered for its totally awesome, and insanly balanced multiplayer mode. I adore Starcraft because it does everything right and it is probably one of the greatest examples of game design (next to PDS, of course)
You are looking for plot to fulfill your own need for “purpose”.
Alternatively, you can play games alone without plot and make having fun the purpose.
For example power sliding a Ferrari around a U-turn on the OutRun 2 Arcade machine is immense fun, as is taking a hydraulically powered bashing in the Afterburner Climax cabinet.
There is no real story as such, because it is not required.
It is required of me to keep an open mind, and I appreciate that although what makes a great game is often largely subjective and in the eye of the beholder, a combination of things that work well together is generally what is required. So a twisting and turning plot may not always be the solution.
There is no reason to critique works for not having a plot or indeed having a simple plot; simply because you generally find there are many games that do not need a plot to work well. There are often cases where trying to include a story actually detracts from the work.
Essentially, you don’t have to over-complicate something that doesn’t have to be made complicated - but if you are trying to make a complex story for a game, then make sure it is actually complex and fits the gaming situation, rather than being just plain convoluted.
There are many people out there who make fan theories to explain things that are either inexplicable, or do not require explanation. The fan-base that seems to practice this the most is the Silent Hill fan-base, where everything requires explanation! (I have seen theories regarding why certain textures were used on walls…)
I still hold BG&E as infinitely superior to today’s glut(with a capital G) of carnival games and non-game games(almost everything on the Wii), “look at the size of my muscles” games(Gears of War, Dragon Ball Z whateverthiswordmeans), and “look how cool I am” games(sports games, Devil May Cry type games, and modern Sonic).
But the question of quality in writing does pose a problem. It’s the same situation Hollywood faces. It’s all about the Bennies. They poll the demographics. Find out what’s hot. Then they cater to that. It’s about instant gratification. The visceral. The look. The style. The graphics. Apparently someone like Sonic, the average Disney icon, and the main characters of God of War and Heavenly Sword are hot, but not someone more finessed like Jade or Azel. Why would a company(game or Hollywood) sink money into something that’s not guaranteed to sell? But that’s the virus that’s plaguing any entertainment media.
[quote=“dragoon lover”]
But the question of quality in writing does pose a problem. It’s the same situation Hollywood faces. It’s all about the Bennies. They poll the demographics. Find out what’s hot. Then they cater to that. It’s about instant gratification. The visceral. The look. The style. The graphics. Apparently someone like Sonic, the average Disney icon, and the main characters of God of War and Heavenly Sword are hot, but not someone more finessed like Jade or Azel. Why would a company(game or Hollywood) sink money into something that’s not guaranteed to sell? But that’s the virus that’s plaguing any entertainment media.[/quote]
And this is based on what research you’ve done?
While some developers and publishers do turn to focus tests once in a while, most of the time, it is used as a reality check. Sometimes when you’ve been working on something for so long, you lose perspective. You stop being able to see the forest for the trees, so to speak. So bringing in groups of people who are seeing it for the first time offers that bit of perspective. It’s kind of like bringing a little nephew, niece, son, daughter, whatever to Disneyland for the first time. You may have been there so many times you are jaded, but seeing their sheer excitement reminds you of how you once felt about the place, making it exciting again.
And other times, it’s useful just to get a different point of view. A publisher or developer may have an idea they think is cool, but what if they are the only one? It’s all about perspective.
And I have to disagree with you about Jade. I loved the game and am trying my hardest to supress my excitement about the potential sequel, but Jade is a horridly designed character. Her personality and character traits are fantastic, but the look? Utterly bland. The only distinguishing thing about her is the green lipstick.
Let’s look at recent games. Bioshock - 1950’s art deco? That’s certainly not “hot” per se, but it was greenlit and has succeeded tremendously. Portal? No sexy characters there, but has done quite well. Even Assassin’s Creed - you can argue that the art style itself is highly adjusted to appeal to a mass audience, but it’s ancient Jerusalem, which isn’t a “sexy” setting. I could go on and on.
As for the writing, there’s decent writing in games. Say what you will about the actual story in Gears of War (or lack thereof), the writing (i.e. the dialog) was surprisingly entertaining, even without substance. The writing in Bioshock is quite nuanced, and the writing in Phoenix Wright is quirky and lively - appropriate for the style and subject matter. Another great example of creative writing is Rocket Slime. Most of it is harmless chatter, but there are some moments of beautiful jokes and puns that make you smile.
And don’t even get me started on Portal. Probably the best written dialog (if it can be considered that) in a game I’ve seen.
Wow… this whole thing spiraled out of control, didn’t it? =P
[quote=“Al3xand3r”]I wouldn’t be so harsh as to say forget about it. Even if the games on it didn’t interest me in the least I certainly wouldn’t deny the quality of some of them.
Anyway, if you aren’t into PC gaming much and/or haven’t got an upgraded PC, then the 360 is a good choice as long as you actually want to get into PC-esque gaming.
If on the other hand you have a decent PC and somehow manage to keep it up to par even if you don’t play much, you aren’t missing much. GOW and Mass Effect and Bioshock and Fable are all available on PC, though we had to wait some for a few of them (and I’d question the quality of some really). I’m sure many other high profile titles will end up being multi platform if it’s not even already announced like Alan Wake.
The Wii offers different things, especially for people who will also be investing in GameCube’s library (like me). Yes, it’s very sad there are not many games of what people like calling “hardcore” on it yet, but I still have faith they’ll be coming any day (ok, year) now. There are quite a few titles I’ll wanna try out when they eventually release anyway, its library is maturing as time goes by. Things like Crystal Bearers, Fragile, Tales of Symphonia, Sword of Legendia, Disaster, and more.
It still offers some good stuff already, like the aforementioned Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime 3, No More Heroes, Lost Winds, My Life as a King, Fire Emblem, Paper Mario, Opoona, and more. If we’re talking strictly exclusives (and of course include the PC) then it doesn’t lack much compared to others. Not in a way the PC can’t fill in the gaps with its own exclusives and/or multiplatform releases.
But as in my first reply, I’d wait for more games before buying it (or any console), so long as you actually see there are games you can play on your currently available systems. There are, just go out there and look for them instead of being depressed over the lack of.
Make a new thread, name your genre preferences and available systems (even outdated pc) and we’ll all do our best to find something worthy you haven’t played yet. Just be open to trying stuff, don’t only ask for a JRPG, but anything you’d play if its quality was great and it was engaging and interesting. For example a good turn based strategy title can be almost as angaging as an RPG in my opinion… Think about what you’ll be asking :)[/quote]
I am open to trying new things. Part of the reason why I posed the question to all of you was exactly for that purpose. I’m not trying to shoot anyone down - I don’t think I gave off that impression, but correct me if I did - I just wish I could find something fun to play. And for the record, I’m not a huge RPG head. I’ve only played PDS, Lunar: Eternal Blue, and FFX. Marginal RPG experience at best. I just like a good story. Characters I can bond with and care about. I can list my game preferences here, or I can start a new thread. Seems silly to start another thread as the topic is relevant, but for the sake of diminishing hoops to jump through, I could if you guys would really prefer it.
[quote=“Abadd”]At this point, barring some sort of miracle, there probably will be little to sway your opinion one way or the other in regards to a Wii or X360. If you don’t already want one, what are you expecting to change your mind?
PS3 is a different beast as it really hasn’t quite hit its stride… but at least for the next year or so, the major titles are all known. It’s 2-3 years down the road that is a big ?? for Sony right now (from the consumer’s perspective, that is).
So, unless you are waiting for very specific games, if something hasn’t caught your attention, why try to convince yourself otherwise? Just play the systems you have and wait.[/quote]
I am trying to wait. I suppose I am just excited about next gen potential, and I really want to enjoy it. I loved Heavenly Sword. The only other game we have is Motor Storm which is fun every now and then, but I like games with purpose and plot. I agree that PS3 hasn’t quite hit its stride. I’ve just been cruising 1UP for new game reviews, and everything’s a shooter or fighting game right now. I’m just stewing in my corner, salivating over the next good game.
What is wrong with having “Sexy” characters anyway?
Considering, litterally, that finesse means balance and style - it is possible to have a character that has Finesse while also being “Sexy”.
But again, given that both terms’ definitions; and what actually constitutes as being sexy or finessed in a character design is largley open to interpretation - I’m not really sure what it has to do the current “situation” the games industry is in.
I meant for you to list the current systems you own and the genres you like/are willing to try, rather than Wii only, that’s why I suggested a new thread, especially considering how much the discussion in here has strayed. But it’s up to you. I’m sure everyone here will have some suggestions to make.
I guess it stands to reason that sometimes a “been there done that” story with AWESOME characters is way more satisfying than a convoluted story with exceedingly dull characters. Heck! Look at me. I’m not into shooters at all(except for obvious masterpieces like Panzer Dragoon), but I’m having an exceedingly good time playing Geometry Wars Galaxies. NO story at all, but the way the game has been crafted is just mesmerizing.
And sometimes, some day, some where, a long shot is taken in terms of style and emotion both in movies and games, and it pays off(Shadow of the Colossus, Katamari Damacy).
No kidding… I was just passed over twice. cries
I guess I’ll go do that now since my original topic got butchered into an argument. sighs I always make men fight no matter where I go… =P
[quote=“Snow Girl”]
No kidding… I was just passed over twice. cries
I guess I’ll go do that now since my original topic got butchered into an argument. sighs I always make men fight no matter where I go… =P[/quote]
Is that such a bad trait? 