I think saying “everything is crap because the mainstream are retards” is an awful generalization to make.
Although at what point does a gamer become “mainstream”?
What quantities do you use to measure it?
Millimeters?
Heh, true… All depends what you’re looking for… If you ONLY STRICTLY WANT TO PLAY PDS2 or something along those lines then it’s stupid to critique games which strive for completelly different things, for example some action FPS game (I think the single player of Call of Duty 4 is fantastic, and I don’t even play such titles usually - similar for Bioshock, a flawed but overall good game - Portal was too amazing to comment on).
There are still games with love being the main driving force behind their development. Aquaria, Geneforge series, Mount & Blade, the upcoming Age of Decadence and many other quality projects. There’s also the occasional worthy high profile title like The Witcher or the forthcoming Beyond Good & Evil 2. Whoever expected Ubisoft to greenlight such a project? Miracles do happen. I also don’t say no to the likes of Metal Gear Solid 4. A really good series seems to get its best part yet (it’s already got the worst with MGS2, heh). Just cos it’s high profile doesn’t mean it’s not worthy and is just mainstream crap.
Basically, yay for gaming, yay for independent developers, and yay for the few and far between miracles of the industry’s big boys. Good things keep coming if you simply know where to look for them and aren’t being absurd for the sake of some forum attention.
Edited for typos, better ponting out of my… points.
[quote=“Snow Girl”]
[quote=“Kadamose”]You’re not going to find any good games in this day and age, mainly because everything now is being directed toward the mainstream, and the mainstream is fucking retarded. I’m still hoping that Deus Ex 3 and Thief 4 will change my stance on that a bit, but considering the previous offerings, I doubt it.
I think it’s best to completely ignore the current generation of games - maybe then, these braindead companies will get their shit together and perhaps release something decent.[/quote]
I know… sigh
I just don’t want to give up hope…[/quote]
Just forget about the Wii and go for a 360. I have yet to play any current gen title but I strongly disagree with Kadamose on account of what I’ve heard and read. How is this generation any worse than the last? Just look at the games released last year : Mass Effect, Halo 3, Bioschock etc etc
The 360 has the best line-up so far and there are upcoming titles that are bound to be quite good. Too Human, Alan Wake, Fable 2…
I used to think I wanted a Wii, but I don’t anymore. Apart from NiGHTS 2 , No More Heroes is the only title that could possibly interest me but I’ve been hearing mixed reviews when it comes to NiGHTS 2 and it’s too risky to buy a Wii just so I can play it.
I wouldn’t be so harsh as to say forget about it. Even if the games on it didn’t interest me in the least I certainly wouldn’t deny the quality of some of them.
Anyway, if you aren’t into PC gaming much and/or haven’t got an upgraded PC, then the 360 is a good choice as long as you actually want to get into PC-esque gaming.
If on the other hand you have a decent PC and somehow manage to keep it up to par even if you don’t play much, you aren’t missing much. GOW and Mass Effect and Bioshock and Fable are all available on PC, though we had to wait some for a few of them (and I’d question the quality of some really). I’m sure many other high profile titles will end up being multi platform if it’s not even already announced like Alan Wake.
The Wii offers different things, especially for people who will also be investing in GameCube’s library (like me). Yes, it’s very sad there are not many games of what people like calling “hardcore” on it yet, but I still have faith they’ll be coming any day (ok, year) now. There are quite a few titles I’ll wanna try out when they eventually release anyway, its library is maturing as time goes by. Things like Crystal Bearers, Fragile, Tales of Symphonia, Sword of Legendia, Disaster, and more.
It still offers some good stuff already, like the aforementioned Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime 3, No More Heroes, Lost Winds, My Life as a King, Fire Emblem, Paper Mario, Opoona, and more. If we’re talking strictly exclusives (and of course include the PC) then it doesn’t lack much compared to others. Not in a way the PC can’t fill in the gaps with its own exclusives and/or multiplatform releases.
But as in my first reply, I’d wait for more games before buying it (or any console), so long as you actually see there are games you can play on your currently available systems. There are, just go out there and look for them instead of being depressed over the lack of.
Make a new thread, name your genre preferences and available systems (even outdated pc) and we’ll all do our best to find something worthy you haven’t played yet. Just be open to trying stuff, don’t only ask for a JRPG, but anything you’d play if its quality was great and it was engaging and interesting. For example a good turn based strategy title can be almost as angaging as an RPG in my opinion… Think about what you’ll be asking 
At this point, barring some sort of miracle, there probably will be little to sway your opinion one way or the other in regards to a Wii or X360. If you don’t already want one, what are you expecting to change your mind?
PS3 is a different beast as it really hasn’t quite hit its stride… but at least for the next year or so, the major titles are all known. It’s 2-3 years down the road that is a big ?? for Sony right now (from the consumer’s perspective, that is).
So, unless you are waiting for very specific games, if something hasn’t caught your attention, why try to convince yourself otherwise? Just play the systems you have and wait.
I haven’t yet convinced myself that Wii is worthy, but there have been several times I would have grabbed one by now if one had been there. I can’t exactly champion the 360 either, as has been said it’s all down to specific games you’re interested in. I do know that Ninja Gaiden 2 is about the only thing coming that actually gets my mouth watering in anticipation, and it’s not that I’m expecting it to be the best game around or even live up to the first, but I just can’t get that excited very much anymore. Actually my expectations would be a lot higher if DOAX2 hadn’t been such a miserable precedent, Team Ninja’s first outright fail… say what you may about DOA:XBV, but the context controls in that game are what had me convinced NJ would be phenomenal well before it’s release.
Umm, I will say that Dead Rising still stands out as the single most refreshing thing I’ve played this gen. And it’s about the only thing that truly feels like next-gen, in that the experience is something that really couldn’t have been realized previously. As opposed to almost everything else that’s still basically prettier versions of the experiences forged in last-gen. Though GTA4 sounds like the real deal, and I will give it a try… sometime.
One thing to consider though Snow Girl, is that the real flood of JRPG’s will start later this year for PS3. And 360 certainly will never infringe on that domain, nor does the Wii seem likely to even try. Aside from the FF’s and such, there’s bound to be some real gems in there soon enough, you may end up liking your PS3 best in a year or two anyway. But I suppose that doesn’t help much right now does it? 
Speaking of Beyond Good and Evil, how in the world did anyone like that game? The story was dull and cliche, and the gameplay was mediocre at best. How is bringing that series back a ‘miracle’?
Starcraft 2 is what I call a true miracle, even though it was bound to happen eventually. But still.
A miracle that Blizzard wanted to follow up a game that’s become the national sport of one of the fastest growing economies in the world? I don’t quite follow…
I said it was eventually bound to happen - it’s just a miracle I didn’t have to wait another 10 years for it.
Some members will have you confused over have truly great games been released or have we just becomedjaded, as gamers, with little patience for games to begin with.
Well, by your definition of the game, it IS a miraclle it 's getting a sequel right?
BG&E’s strengths lied exactly where it was different from other games.
[quote=“Gehpnaet”]Some members will have you confused over have truly great games been released or have we just becomedjaded, as gamers, with little patience for games to begin with.
Well, by your definition of the game, it IS a miraclle it 's getting a sequel right?
BG&E’s strengths lied exactly where it was different from other games.[/quote]
And that was my question - HOW was BG&E different from other games? It was cliche, predictable and unenjoyable just like everything else. Saying that BG&E is good is like saying Indiana Jones 4 was a good movie - that’s the same kind of pathetic mindset.
I have never played Beyond Good and Evil, nor seen Indiana Jones 4.
However I find the suggestion that people who are more easily amused than yourself are of a “pathetic mindset” to be questionable.
Cliche? Unenjoyable? Are you kidding me? Just the opening sequence alone sucked me in and convinced me that the characters felt alive, despite their anthropomorphisation, and that they had real emotions and relationships. Tomb Raider. Heavenly Sword. God of War. Pass. Just more characters whose selling points are their fighting skills. Witness just the first scene in Beyond Good and Evil where Jade picks up a simple flaming branch to fight off the aliens and protect the innocent children in her care. No. Jade is no simple warrior. She’s more complex than that.
Not only that, but I enjoyed the sneaking around and photographing WAY more than even Metal Gear Solid. Plus, the whole world just seemed to come alive, the way all the hovercraft and boats just zoomed about here and there, making it seem like a real city. There were also people to talk to, who felt just as colorful as the main characters. And yet. . . there’s still that ominous feeling in the background, as evidence by the “V is for Vendetta”-esque speech by the city’s illustrious despot booming over the loud speaker.
Plus there were many fun things to do. Collecting pearls. Boat racing. Photographing the wildlife. Finally, it seemed like everything was set up to make the whole experience as cinematic as possible. The zoom lines when chasing pirates. The camera cuts. The cinematic angles. But it was also blessed with uncanny control. This was the “cinematic experience” FF VII wished it was.
Cliche and unenjoyable? Beyond Good and Evil was one of the most incredible experiences I’ve ever had the pleasure to play. It is currently my fourth or fifth favorite game of all time.
Starcraft was fun and all, but I don’t have the time or the mouse skills to invest in multiplayer frag fests like I used to. I prefer the finesse of Homeworld and Sins of Solar Empire and Medieval 2.
[quote=“dragoon lover”]Cliche? Unenjoyable? Are you kidding me? Just the opening sequence alone sucked me in and convinced me that the characters felt alive, despite their anthropomorphisation, and that they had real emotions and relationships. Tomb Raider. Heavenly Sword. God of War. Pass. Just more characters whose selling points are their fighting skills. Witness just the first scene in Beyond Good and Evil where Jade picks up a simple flaming branch to fight off the aliens and protect the innocent children in her care. No. Jade is no simple warrior. She’s more complex than that.
Not only that, but I enjoyed the sneaking around and photographing WAY more than even Metal Gear Solid. Plus, the whole world just seemed to come alive, the way all the hovercraft and boats just zoomed about here and there, making it seem like a real city. There were also people to talk to, who felt just as colorful as the main characters. And yet. . . there’s still that ominous feeling in the background, as evidence by the “V is for Vendetta”-esque speech by the city’s illustrious despot booming over the loud speaker.
Plus there were many fun things to do. Collecting pearls. Boat racing. Photographing the wildlife. Finally, it seemed like everything was set up to make the whole experience as cinematic as possible. The zoom lines when chasing pirates. The camera cuts. The cinematic angles. But it was also blessed with uncanny control. This was the “cinematic experience” FF VII wished it was.
Cliche and unenjoyable? Beyond Good and Evil was one of the most incredible experiences I’ve ever had the pleasure to play. It is currently my fourth or fifth favorite game of all time.[/quote]
Perhaps its my old age which is making me so damn picky nowadays, but I want to play games that entertain me, as well as stimulate the intellect and imagination. I want to THINK and be surprised at plot twists etc, but, sadly, this doesn’t occur very often…and BG&E isn’t an exception.
Is it too much to ask to actually have a game with a storyline that doesn’t actually treat its audience like a bunch of braindead cattle? It pisses me off that all of the game designers and writers of the world today have the intellect equivelent to that of a sixth grader.
One thing you will learn about Kadamose’s tastes in games is that they are impossible to satisfy. There is nothing wrong with a story that doesn’t have some sort of twist that is completely surprising. It’s entirely possible to have a story that is compelling simply due to the journey that the characters take.
That being said, give us an example other than Panzer Saga that you think satisfies your ludicrously high standards, Kadamose? If you feel that games nowadays don’t provide that, then no game in history has. Ico and Shadow of the Colossus provide equally compelling narratives to PDS, and Bioshock (though arguably has generic gameplay) has one of the most well-crafted twists in gaming history (not the actual twist itself, but the way in which the game is structured around that twist). BG&E is the closest we’ll ever see to a Miyazaki video game, and there are games in which the visuals and style provide a compelling narrative unlike any book or movie (Rez, for example).
Then there are games that provide immense amounts of interactive entertainment without complex narrative that other media can’t provide (Rock Band).
Where did your unrealistic expectations stem from? What formative experience with video games did you have when you were younger that showed you video games had peaked? And if you truly think that all video games suck now, why bother posting on a forum where people come to discuss video games?
And almost forgot to address this. If this is true, why not grace us with a story yourself? One thing I’ve learned about working in the professional world, at some point you just gotta stop bitching about the problems and realize that it’s up to you to fix them. If the writers of the world truly are amateurs with the intellect of a sixth grader, then perhaps you should show the world how it’s supposed to be done?
But then we always run into the intellectual scapegoat method of blaming the audience for not understanding when the creation is critically panned…
Actually, there are plenty of games that did meet those standards…in the ancient (and not so ancient) past, of course. Just to name a few:
-Snatcher
-Thief 2: The Metal Age
-Thief: Deadly Shadows (had a nice plot twist)
I am one of those people who value the overall story over the gameplay - mashing buttons on a controller isn’t my idea of being entertained.
Oh, and I would LOVE to show the world how to write a plot that will rock everyone’s socks off. The problem is getting your foot into the door to get such a thing accomplished. Easier said than done. I definitely think I could accomplish it, though.
If you value story over gameplay (and apparently don’t have any interest in gameplay at all), why keep critiquing or discussing GAMES? Go after books, comic books, graphic novels, movies and machinima, anything other than games. The parts of games that actually present a story or plot are not actual gameplay parts anyway. They’re moments closer to the other mediums mentioned, especially in the games you seem to love. Also, why bother replying at all if out of all those posts you just quote a single line, the least important of all even, and basically avoid the rest?
Nobody’s going to be convinced your stuff is worthy if you don’t actually have written something before. So just go ahead and write something. Show the world how stories are meant to be done. Take measures needed to protect your copyrights then post it all here and also use it in your portofolio. Then everyone will see the greatness and you’ll be bound to succeed, right? Yeah I thought so, Abadd is probably right in that people just won’t “get” the apparent greatness, it won’t be an actual quality issue at all.
PS: Abadd, I guess Kadamose has changed and no longer considers PDS as the only worthy game out there like he had stated many times in the past (gosh, he likes Starcraft now - a RTS with copy cat setting - and great gameplay - of all things), or techno bio engineered cat girls as the only definite future of… our future. He’s also apparently older now. That’s all when it suits him of course, as in this case he was forced to mention other (questionable) games as good. It’s hard to keep up with his constantly changing beliefs so your trick question of asking about anything “other than PDS” wasn’t destined to work. Of course, your other points are sufficient anyway… I was going to post that “do it yourself mr high IQ then” thing myself.
[quote=“Kadamose”]
Well, by your definition of the game, it IS a miraclle it 's getting a sequel right?
BG&E’s strengths lied exactly where it was different from other games.
And that was my question - HOW was BG&E different from other games? It was cliche, predictable and unenjoyable just like everything else. Saying that BG&E is good is like saying Indiana Jones 4 was a good movie - that’s the same kind of pathetic mindset.[/quote]
Lol. Haven’t watched Indy 4 yet, I’m afraid. It’s not something easily explainable, in the same way describing why someone might love Ico is hard. It’s the kind of game that simply plunges you into an alien world and holds you there. The atmosphere of the whole game is believable and everything from the characters to the environments have a sense of identity not easily found in other games.
As for the love of stories in games,and feeling like not enough is being done in that regard, I actually agree with you. However, since you know good stories are not the norm, then you shouldn’t be disappointed. Be happy with the ones that do have good stories. I’m sure you don’t play Starcraft 2 for the story, though. Not all games set out to do the same things. Would you hold it against Rez, for example? Just because it doesn’t have a good story doesn’t mean it can’t be special.
I do think games should, and will eventually, be means to tell good stories and deliver special experiences but the medium is still young. Look at the “stories” in the first movies.