The Arcade flyer for VF3 reports the model 3 version of the game as pushing 1 million polys per second, also VF3 used squares rather than triangles on Model 3. Model 3 itself was capable of pushing 3 million according to SEGA.
Of course even these official numbers could be wildley innacurate - we know what SEGA are like.
We canāt use the Dreamcast version for accurate poly count information, because they lowered the Geometry complexity quite a bit - and also doubled up the number of polygons by converting the graphics from quads to triangles as the DC could not draw using quads.
While I know the 750k polygon number would be per second not per frameā¦ thatās still completely absurd. Youāre literally claiming miracles there Chizzles, the most any released Saturn game ever pulled off was maybe 100k polys per second, and Iām probably being far too generous even there. Even aside from that claim, a VF3 port running at 30fps would have been worthless anyway, even if it was a tech marvel.
[quote=āAl3xand3rā]I donāt doubt that VF3 was up and running on the Saturn, seeing as we even got a rolling demo of it at some point, but I really doubt that the two fighters and simple 3D levels required 750000 polygonsā¦
If those scenes do have that many polygons then they must have some rather shoddy modeling going on, VF3 characters (any version) should be maybe 20000 polygons each and the levels another that much perhaps, if judged by their quality and if I was being VERY VERY generousā¦
I could even be absurd and say they actually had 100000 eachā¦ Thatās still far from 750000 on screen polygons. Are there any wireframe images of the models and levels somewhere?[/quote]
The Saturn was, well, not cut out for the job really. BUT, compare Shining Force 3 Scenario 2 with Scenario 1 and the graphical leap between them is pretty amazing considering the hardware limitations (streaming data off the sound card ā lol). The devs were doing miracles with the hardware when that shouldnāt have been necessary.
TA though, pretty much built the PD series directly around what the Saturn could do like Treasure did with Guardian Heroes etc rather than do the impossible (which everyone else was trying to doā¦ in vain?).
If only more Saturn games had used the Sonic R engine. Bah I say bah!
This is all just information that has been leaked out of SEGA over the years, sadly, it also gets confused with rumour into a messy pile of shit. However we know for sure that the game did not use any kind of upgrade cart nor did Shenmue.
How many polys per second do we think Shenmue did on Saturn?
Rough guestimation, I am not very good with, I will leave it up to you, but Iād say quite a few.
I will have a chat with Anthemia from Assembler about it, he is the go to guy regarding VF3 for Saturn.
Around 100,000, to 150,000 at the very Max. Iām really not sure where youāre getting your info from , but youāre really off the mark . As good as Shenmue onthe Saturn looked , it was miles off any Model 2 game you could name I bet Shenmue wasnāt pushing many more polygons than Virtua Cop II imo , and if one looks at Digital Dance Mix (AM#2 last game for the Saturn) its miles off pushing 750,000 polygons , just miles
Thats the stuff of make believe, The Saturn top polygon output was around 300,000 and thatās make believe untextured polygons , tech demoās stuff too
I think the Major reason Genki were given the port of VT3tb is becasue AM#2 were up in thier eyeās in it, trying to make Shenmue, and the likes of F355 for the Arcades
I have every issues of SSM and never once do the staff claim to have seen VF3 up and running onthe Saturn , they just said they heard the Saturn version was finished and ready to go.
Oh I remember Yu Suzuki saying worked as started on porting VF3 to the Saturn , and that while the Saturn couldnāt handle model 3 graphics , he hoped the sprit of VF3 would be able to be transferred to the Saturn
[quote] How many of you even knew that the near complete Saturn version of Shenmue even existed before that video of it showed up in Shenmue II? VF3 was handled with the same level of secrecy.
[/quote]
Not that many granted , but if there was a a near finished version of VF3 on the Saturn , Iām sure either it would have been leaked or AM#2 shown it off thier selfās
Iām not saying thats its not true, but I find that very hard to believe . I donāt think Genki have ever made a Arcade game , and I canāt see AM#2 letting anyone other than thier staff work on thier IP , and to work on the likes of Chihiro Genki would need rights off SEGA, and Microsoft .
Around 100,000, to 150,000 at the very Max. Iām really not sure where youāre getting your info from , but youāre really off the mark . As good as Shenmue onthe Saturn looked , it was miles off any Model 2 game you could name I bet Shenmue wasnāt pushing many more polygons than Virtua Cop II imo , and if one looks at Digital Dance Mix (AM#2 last game for the Saturn) its miles off pushing 750,000 polygons , just miles
Thats the stuff of make believe, The Saturn top polygon output was around 300,000 and thatās make believe untextured polygons , tech demoās stuff too
I think the Major reason Genki were given the port of VT3tb is becasue AM#2 were up in thier eyeās in it, trying to make Shenmue, and the likes of F355 for the Arcades
I have every issues of SSM and never once do the staff claim to have seen VF3 up and running onthe Saturn , they just said they heard the Saturn version was finished and ready to go.
Oh I remember Yu Suzuki saying worked as started on porting VF3 to the Saturn , and that while the Saturn couldnāt handle model 3 graphics , he hoped the sprit of VF3 would be able to be transferred to the Saturn
[quote] How many of you even knew that the near complete Saturn version of Shenmue even existed before that video of it showed up in Shenmue II? VF3 was handled with the same level of secrecy.
[/quote]
Not that many granted , but if there was a a near finished version of VF3 on the Saturn , Iām sure either it would have been leaked or AM#2 shown it off thier selfās
Iām not saying thats its not true, but I find that very hard to believe . I donāt think Genki have ever made a Arcade game , and I canāt see AM#2 letting anyone other than thier staff work on thier IP , and to work on the likes of Chihiro Genki would need rights off SEGA, and Microsoft .
We did have a rolling demo of VF3 on the Saturnā¦ Granted we have no way to know if it was really running on Saturn hardware, and the video quality was pretty bad if I remember right, but I donāt think it was a habbit of Sega to showcase stuff they didnāt actually haveā¦ Of course the fact we had a video doesnāt mean anything about the polycounts which I also cannot believe, it could very well be a vastly toned down version, heck a slight improvement over VF2 with new character models and the VF3 movesetā¦ I donāt think many of us would argue with having that to play at our homes back thenā¦
What those rolling demoās that on youtube?. Theyāre nothing more that early Model 3 code . Iāve seen a few supect screen shots , but theyāre either too fake or too good to be true .
Iāve no doubt AM#2 would have done wonders , as with each new game they just got better and better onthe Saturn , but I really canāt see the graphics being much more of a step up over Megamix
What those rolling demoās that on youtube?. Theyāre nothing more that early Model 3 code . Iāve seen a few supect screen shots , but theyāre either too fake or too good to be true .
Iāve no doubt AM#2 would have done wonders , as with each new game they just got better and better onthe Saturn , but I really canāt see the graphics being much more of a step up over Megamix
Iām wondering, if perhaps somewhere down the line, someone has added an extra Zero onto the end of those poly counts.
50, 000 and 75 000 anyone?
According to a few sources, the original build of the game did not look much better than Megamix, by people who have reportedly āseenā the game.
The Screenshots are fake - their resolution is native Model 3 resolution, a resolution that the Saturnās video chip couldnāt actually output.
As far as SSM goes, what I have heard is that SSM staff spoke briefly to other people about seeing the game up and running using their mouths. I am not talking about printed text in the Magazine. They could have course, been joking.
However several employees of other Magazines and the like, have said off-record that at SEGA press conferences, AM2 used to show the game to a select few journalists and SEGA employees after the game had been cancelled.
There was a Saturn in Japan released with a VF3 promotional slip in the box, people have actually counterfeited these flyers in the past, it is the only piece of promotional material relating to the game.
One of the counterfeits sold on eBay a few months ago for an INSANE amount of cash.
Nobody has ever uploaded it to the net though, seemingly
[quote=āChizzlesā]Iām wondering, if perhaps somewhere down the line, someone has added an extra Zero onto the end of those poly counts.
50, 000 and 75 000 anyone?
[/quote]
Well Virtual Fighter onthe Saturn beat that, that was pushing more polgons than VF II running on the Saturn btw, and pushing over 100,000 polygons . Imo SEGA Rally, Daytona CCE and Virtual Cop 1/II are the best demoās of the Saturns true poolygon power and grunt , as unlike most Saturn games they couldnāt use the VDP II trick of helping to draw the floors ect , more so inthe case of Sega Rally nothing was flat , so that was the VDP 1 true grunt .
That said Lobotomy also did wonders with thier Slave engine
No, not rolling demos on youtube, rolling demo on demo discs thrown out by Sega Power or other magazine. So, official rolling demo of VF3 for Saturn. Am I the only one who got that disc or what? I remember it showed Aoi fighting perhaps Kage.
Okayā¦ It wasnāt meant to promote an upcoming Saturn version of the game then? Iām sure I would remember that part if it just said itās a showcase of the arcadeā¦
Nah its Flash #4 , and the section you see VT 3 running is titled Arcade previews , view upcoming Arcade titles , where is shows footage of Tourning Car, VF 3 and Last Bronx .
Ah well I guess my mind might have combined watching the video and maybe reading somewhere in the magazine (since I didnāt have teh internet back then) that a Saturn version was coming. Maybe. It has been years after all.
Itās pretty common knowledge coming from a Shenmue community. I donāt think the Saturn version was ever announced by SEGA or SEGA - Am2, but I think maybe something was leaked?
Off topic, but vaguely related to the new topicā¦
Iām reminded of my list of āmust seeā Saturn games on the basis of graphics. Because of the denigration Saturn constantly gets as a 3D machine, these were the top five that to me champion Saturnās power over a range of priorities, and as a package represent something the Playstation never showed anything close to. (or even N64 for the most part)
Panzer Dragoon Saga - A no brainer really, not only is it the best representative of Segaās internal library tech, but it shows off nearly every cheesy VDP2 effect at some point. As well as having some of the greatest modeling of all time.
Last Bronx - High-res, 60fps, just like VF2 and DOA but even more detailed, then add insane backgrounds and it eclipses the other two by a wide margin.
Exhumed/Powerslave - As good as any Doom clone ever did look, on anything. Lobotomy may have pushed the engine even further with their next two ports, but Duke Nukem is an ugly looking game and unlike Quakeā¦ thereās a completely inferior PS version of Powerslave to point to and laugh.
AMOK - Almost genetically engineered to shine on the Saturn: a mix of tons of scaled sprites, well used textures, and something like a 2.5D voxel engine driven more by raw processing power than innate polygon ability.
Radiant Silvergun - Can it really even get anymore impressive for an old-school scrolling shooter? It certainly hasnāt been topped since, higher resolutions and many times the polygons notwithstanding, this game alone justifies the existence of that beautiful mess of a machine.
So any disagreements? Which games would you replace and with what?
Itās pretty common knowledge coming from a Shenmue community. I donāt think the Saturn version was ever announced by SEGA or SEGA - Am2, but I think maybe something was leaked?[/quote]
I am talking about before the footage appeared in Shenmue II, there was no āShenmue communityā back in 1998.
Regarding Saturn 3D, Iād say Sonic R is also a pretty good technical achievement.
One of the best looking (from a technical standpoint) 2D titles on the system is Astra, the sprites and animation are soā¦ big o_O
Yeah Sonic Rā¦ I think I only borrowed it for a while, the control just didnāt work for me. I do remember being blown away by the look at first, itās mostly in line with what Azel shows though right? Other than the cool reflecting logoā¦
