I’ve been thinking. You know the Shenmue Campaign by SEGA Nerds? Course you do. Well, I’ve been thinking, and what if we start a gigantic campaign, pushing for concrete answers for a Shenmaster777 coined term: “The Big 3” (Panzer Dragoon, Jet Set Radio, and Shenmue)? This thread here is the second of three topics posted in 3 seperate forums taking opinions on the idea. I will start production on a forum tomorrow, and I would like an administrator from this site, a JSRF site, and a Shenmue site to help me, a representative of all three games, along with maybe a SEGA Nerds admin if we can win their favor.
Discuss. I really want to push this guys, and not just through SEGA Support. I have a mailing list of over 150 email addresses from all across SEGA - Sammy Holdings waiting…
Shen, you posted a topic recently on sega.com about Sega stating that “There are no plans for [Shenmue III] right now”, so you already have one “concrete” answer.
All of the three franchises you’ve mentioned were commercial failures so it’s unlikely Sega is working on any sequels at the moment, but you never know.
Another campaign sounds like a wasted effort. Sega will announce something when they are ready.
I didn’t think there was much of a Sega community left anymore. And it’s understandable why tbh.
Business is business.
What’s Yu Suzuki up to these days? It kind of begins and ends with him, but investment doesn’t grow on trees. IMO, trends have just shifted too much. Even the whole adventure gaming genre can’t really stand on its own two feet anymore.
More marketable doesn’t equal move violent. Look @ Nintendo. Sega should find their own way also. Shenmue (and many other Sega franchises) was/is quality, they need to find what would make all of that sell without devaluing the creators’ vision into something that’s made solely to cater to the masses in some misguided gimmicky way like violence. All of their experiments have all been so off the mark so far.
To clarify, look @ Nintendo’s franschises is what I mean… Sure they do have software that’s as gimmicky as “violence” can be (except here it’s the “casual” effect) and it sells by the truckload, but their serious franschises still sell mroe than enough to warrant sequels… Zelda still sells, Mario still sells, and it’s NOT purely nostalgia, or the power of a franschise, because Sega used to have that also, but it didn’t help them maintain momentum, so Nintendo must be doing something right with those games, no matter how they may be inferior to previous titles of the same series or how badly some people here may hate them…
Anyway, there’s a lot of hype surrounding non too violent or too casual titles like say, Mirror’s Edge (though I have my doubts over the game) or Project Zero 4 so that shows you can generate buzz without stereotyped gimmicks like “violence” or already powerful franchises… I think you generaly need something that will look gorgeous to people I guess, and other than that, it can be any kind of game and if you get all the elements right it will take off.
Mass Effect wasn’t violent. You can say it devalues the RPG genre it’s supposed to cater to, and is basically closer to a FPS game, but it’s still a much better game than most of the shovelware the mainstream usually play… And maybe some of them, liking Bioware’s work, will try Dragon Age, initiated to better things, from a less stellar game… Anyway, getting off topic here…
Nintendo’s case is different because it has an audience pratically inbuilt with its consoles. Also the big N seems to keeps its brand synonymous with quality by ensuring finished games etc. Even if you dislike a Nintendo game you can almost always expect it to not be an unfinished rushed piece of crap, which works as a business model. Others don’t see it that way.
If we ever saw Shenmue 3, the only way it would probably happen is if Satomi himself bankrolled it. He may be crazy enough to do it if we ask very very nicely. If I ever met the man I’m sure I could persuade him with my broken Japanese. Lol.
But keep it all in perspective. It’ll cost millions and millions to make.
I don’t see why Shenmue 3 would have to cost any more than say, GTA4. I don’t even know why Sega spent as much money as they did on the original - they could’ve done things differently.
At any rate, whatever the cost/state/medium/crab of Shenmue 3, I would buy it regardless.
Sega effectivley made Shenmue 1 and 2 twice for both Saturn and Dreamcast, if they only made one version the game would probably only have cost half as much as it did.
They also spent a lot of money flying around China, so the team could “get a feel” for the areas in the game - the thing is, I’m not sure that showing them videos of the areas to be featured would have necessarily worked out with the game being of a lesser quality…
Perhaps they really did waste money doing that I have been to Hong Kong several times and I’m not sure Shenmue really gets it right at all…
[quote=“Chizzles”]Sega effectivley made Shenmue 1 and 2 twice for both Saturn and Dreamcast, if they only made one version the game would probably only have cost half as much as it did.
They also spent a lot of money flying around China, so the team could “get a feel” for the areas in the game - the thing is, I’m not sure that showing them videos of the areas to be featured would have necessarily worked out with the game being of a lesser quality…
Perhaps they really did waste money doing that I have been to Hong Kong several times and I’m not sure Shenmue really gets it right at all…[/quote]
Somewhat right.
When doing research for Virtua Fighter in 1994 in China, the story of a VFRPG started to form in Suzuki - san’s head. It wasn’t until a couple of years later that production on the Virtua Fighter RPG started on the Saturn. Then, it changed to Shenmue on the Saturn. Then, it changed to Shenmue on the Dreamcast, and by this time, the team was well into working on Shenmue III. Remember, Shenmue I and II were essentially developed as one game.
Shenmue Online was announced in 2004 by JCE, T2, and SEGA. Sometime in 2005, JCE pulled out of development, and since they owned 50% of the rights to SO, there was a legal dispute that was supposedly settled out of court. From then on, it is unknown who the game went to, but it was either SEGA of China or Interserv Software. It was shown to the Chinese gaming comunity as a part of the China Games Show 2006, but nobody has heard of it since. Shenmue is listed as a property of T2 on their website still, and the official site is still up for the game, but nothing has officially been said by T2, IS, or SEGA, so nobody knows for sure. Adam Doree from Kikizo Games has gone on the record saying that his sources say it is cancelled, but some choose not to believe him since SEGA denied his claims that Shenmue III was ready to be ported to one of the big 3 consoles, pending on an agreement.
He just released a game a couple of months ago titled SEGA Race TV.
[quote=“Shadow”]I don’t see why Shenmue 3 would have to cost any more than say, GTA4. I don’t even know why Sega spent as much money as they did on the original - they could’ve done things differently.
[/quote]
Most say that GTA IV took over 100 million $ to make , so it cost more than Shenmue , mind you isn’t Too Human the most expenisve game ever ??, Yet you’ll never know it , when you play the demo
I think people over play the AM#2 doing research on the weather or going around China , I think a lot of teams go around citys and places for research to be put into the game , and that doesn’t mean it cost millions and millions to make .
I just think the Shenmue Project got a bit out of control and with upwards of 200 staff working onthe project for 5 years all helped to push the price up , as did the massive ammounts SEGA spend on PR with regards to Shenmue .
ooking at the economics side of things, inflation means that the money spent back in the mid 90’s on Shenmue and the VFRPG would equal a lot more in today’s terms, so Shenmue probably costs close to, if not more than GTAIV.
Yeah, I knew this, I just chose to refer to them as how they ended up being released rather than what was planned on being released.
We also know that the main character was originally Akira Yuki and the Saturn version of Shenmue did indeed have Ryo wearing Akira’s “casual” wear from the CG renders of him on Fighters Megamix.
Another thing is the sheer amount of projects that AM2 worked on during the Saturn. Everything from Daytona to the Saturn version of Virtua Fighter 3 and Fighters Megamix.
The Saturn version of Virtua Fighter 3 alone would have been money wasted also, out the back door sources, very similar to those sources the Panzer Dragoon prototypes came from have stated that the Saturn version of VF3 pushed 750, 000 polygons at 320*240 30fps on stock Saturn hardware! Think of how long that must have taken to perfect! That is almost as many polys as the model 3 version! The only current copies of the game are one copy at Sega-Europe (Which has been known to be shown to employees, if they ask nice ) and two copies at SEGA-Japan. Several members of SSM staff were allowed to view the game, but were forced to sign NDAs - meaning they can never talk about it or show screenshots.
The game was actually completed with Box-Art designs and ready to go to print, they even optimized the game for PAL!
Alas, all was not well, the game was cancelled to promote the Dreamcast version of VF3 (which is an inferior technical achievment, and doesn’t even replicate the arcade version - not exactly impressive when you consider how powerful the Dreamcast was).
AM2 was of course split up into different divisons…
One member from the Fighting Vipers 2 team officially denied the existence of VF3 for Saturn, he didn’t know about Saturn VF3 due to the fact he was working on FV2 and working with Genki on the Dreamcast version of VF3 at the time and there was actually little/no communication between the two teams.
After Genki’s version of OutRun 2, SEGA decided to stop using Genki, and handed OutRun 2 back over to AM2.
Anyway, gone off topic, but you can never marvel enough at how amazing AM2 are.
[quote]The Saturn version of Virtua Fighter 3 alone would have been money wasted also, out the back door sources, very similar to those sources the Panzer Dragoon prototypes came from have stated that the Saturn version of VF3 pushed 750, 000 polygons at 320*240 30fps on stock Saturn hardware! Think of how long that must have taken to perfect! That is almost as many polys as the model 3 version! The only current copies of the game are one copy at Sega-Europe (Which has been known to be shown to employees, if they ask nice ) and two copies at SEGA-Japan. Several members of SSM staff were allowed to view the game, but were forced to sign NDAs - meaning they can never talk about it or show screenshots.
[/quote]
I’m sorry that just can’t not be true , The Saturn would be lucky to be able to push as many Polygons as Model 1 board , 750,000 is double that of the Model 2,!, thats just impossible for the Saturn , not matter which way you cut it .
Also I find it very hard to believe that Hiroshi Kataoka wouldn’t know what was happing with AM#2 , more so as he was in charge of most of the Saturn AM#2 productions like FV and Megamix , and I would have though that VF II/FV/Megamix team would be handling the Saturn version
I’m sure its a typo (bit rich from me , I know) but I don’t think Genki ever made OutRun for SEGA, they just made the Saturn version of Hang On 95.
AM#2 did wonders on the Saturn , and so did TA and Sonic Team , but I wish AM#1 and AM#3 got a bit more credit , AM#1 Diehard was a fanstic use of the VDP II and VDP 1 to create a fanstic 3D engine with brillaint texture’s and I think Last Bronx is the best Model 2 Saturn port ever , its almost spot on in terrms of graphics (bar the 3D backrounds)
Genki did develop OutRun 2 for Arcades, it is common knowledge amongst collectors of prototypes. AM2 were not impressed by Genki’s version of the game and destroyed it.
When AM2 first playtested the game at a special event at SoJ it actually still had the 3D car models from the Genki version in it, AM2 later swapped these out with their own.
How many polygons do you think Shenmue on Saturn pushed?
Remember in a 1 VS 1 fighter, you only have the arena and two characters to deal with.
Sega Saturn VF3 was originally compiled into a first revision with 500, 000 polygons, it was rejected by SEGA’s higher ups for looking too rough.
AM2 took a further time to optimize the graphics - the polygon count for which was reported to be 750 000.
Hiroshi Kataoka was litterally transferring temporarily to Genki at the time Saturn VF3 was being developed to help them with Dreamcast VF3tb, just after finishing Fighting Vipers 2.
Do you not remember SSM’s report that AM2 had managed to get the game running on Saturn? It has also been “confirmed” (IE, SSM staff blabbed) that they indeed saw the game running before their very eyes, blabbed to various private collectors over the years.
SEGA officially released several announcements on the game’s progress throughout the development cycle, there is an official cancelation date for the project online somewhere, although I forget the exact date. You may have to google for it, alternativley I can ask those in the know, although it will take them a while to get back…
There is of course always the possibility that Hiroshi was instructed or decided himself to never disclose the information.
How many of you even knew that the near complete Saturn version of Shenmue even existed before that video of it showed up in Shenmue II? VF3 was handled with the same level of secrecy.
Anyway, I am derailing the topic, if you want to discuss this further PM me or create a new topic.
I don’t doubt that VF3 was up and running on the Saturn, seeing as we even got a rolling demo of it at some point, but I really doubt that the two fighters and simple 3D levels required 750000 polygons…
If those scenes do have that many polygons then they must have some rather shoddy modeling going on, VF3 characters (any version) should be maybe 20000 polygons each and the levels another that much perhaps, if judged by their quality and if I was being VERY VERY generous…
I could even be absurd and say they actually had 100000 each… That’s still far from 750000 on screen polygons. Are there any wireframe images of the models and levels somewhere?
I have been to Hong Kong several times and I’m not sure Shenmue really gets it right at all…