I just saw the video, its sickening. I can’t believe theres people in this world like that. I hope all these people now see what kind of things happen in war, and how this “smart” race of human beings is turning out.
I didn’t even know what it was until someone told me, and it was on the news and stuff.
What are you tlaking about exactly Scott?
He is talking about the video that was published on the internet of iraqi millitants beheading an american hostage which they claim is in retaliation to the US torture and unlawfull killing of several Iraqi prisoners. Personally I couldnt care less what their reasons are, nothing can condone their actions, making the execution public was even more deplorable. Myself I have not seen the video and I do not want to, worryingly I am intrigued about it but the fact is that it is a video of a civilian being killed in a brutal way and not something I want to see.
While the torturing was ok because it wasn’t in public ? (until it was revealed ofcourse)
There’s nothin the iraqis can do apart from this kind of “counter measures”, and not in hopes that the US govt would care about these civilians they kill but in hopes the US civilians will retaliate and ask them to stop the torturing after seeing iraqis do that kind of actions return… It’s the death of a prisoner just like the iraqi prisoners death, brutal or not it makes no difference, it’s a life taken away, the brutal part is not for their satisfaction it’s cos they want the attention… While on the other hand the US doesn’t want it ofcourse, different motives and goals…
It’s all tactics really… Sad but true…
Am I justifying it? No, I’m not, I’m just saying it’s not any worse than what happens to the iraqi prisoners or the iraqi civilians that die everyday on the street from false fire and what not…
I think you got the wrong idea from my post Al3x, I did not try to condone in any way the torture done by the Americans(or the British, or the Iraqis) the fact that prisoners are being mistreated and killed is a terrible thing(and yet a part of every war). I think that the fact that the torture has gone on is a failure of the individuals involved and the army itself(there should be tighter controls). Infact it has even been suggested that the CIA approved of the mistreatment of prisoners saying that they should be put into a state ready for interrogation(i dont remember the exact quote).
An eye for an eye way for looking at the deaths is one way to see it however it is not as black and white as that. The execution did not have to be broadcast and it did also not have to be by decapitation with a knife, if it was simply a death to make up for Iraqi deaths then none of these had to happen. I think the brutality of the death was an important factor, this was intended to shock the people who see it.
As for the Iraqi’s having no choice I dont believe that is the case in the slightest. Firstly you allways have a choice in a situation and that choice should never be public execution! Furthermore the Iraqis have weakened their position by doing this, it is foolish to think that the americans will not retaliate by doing this. They have also lost any moral support they might have had, both from citizens in the West and presumably in their own country. As for killing to stop the torture of Iraqi prisoners, that doesnt make sense either. With the wide criticism of the war in the West, America are going to make damn sure that there will be no more prisoner abuse, they cannot afford any more scandal.
Finally please do not reply in the same way to one of my serious posts again, suggesting that I could possibly find torturing ok was both rude and argumentative.
I would like to point out that he was no soldier but a civilian who was looking for work in that area and he was trying to get home when the commotion started.
I believe it is a tad bit different when a civilian is executed.
I’m against all wars.
If the draft board comes after me I’m using this post as evidence that I’m a consiencous objector.
[quote=“Atolm”]I would like to point out that he was no soldier but a civilian who was looking for work in that area and he was trying to get home when the commotion started.
I believe it is a tad bit different when a civilian is executed.[/quote]
That’s why I mentioned all the civilians that have died and are dieing everyday in Iraq… Oh wait, that’s war right so it’s ok? Well this is happening during war too so… same deal to me…
Vyper most of the things you said I mentioned/replied already to in my previous post, I’d just like to add that I do believe executions will make atleast some more people ask for the troops to return even more (just like they were asking for them to return cos of the troop deaths, they will ask to return cos of civilians dieing now as well) and that I never implied that an eye for an eye was good (or that it was what they did at all even), that’s all they have, that’s all they do, it’s not like I support al quida or whatever they are spelled (And btw let’s not say all iraqis lost support just cos of a terrorist organization did this…it’s not the iraqi ppl doing that), I’m just saying it’s not any worse than what the US is doing, just cos they are not doing it in secret… if this was done in secret it would have affected noone, by showing it like this and shocking ppl they make a statement to the world… What else would they do? "Don’t torture more iraqis or we’ll…we’ll…do something…"
And the execution was posted on some site afaik, it’s not like it was broadcasted on international TV live, the news channels made sure of that ofcourse but that was later, in more or less the same way the torturings and killings came to the surface later…(I find the pictures of that stripped down person with the men with the wild dogs around him letting them loose on him more brutal than this btw)
By the way, and this is directed to Atolm again, how can we be certain none of the tortured and killed iraqis were falsly accused and weren’t civilians? But anyway, not that importand, iraqi civilians are still dieing everyday…
By the way Alex, if that person was a part of your family and he was beheaded for many people to see worldwide, based on your logic that civilians still die in war anyways, would it still matter to you?
It would probably be different if you personally knew a person. This goes to both American and Iraqi, and hell, every other damn race in this world.
If you wish to discuss this even more, I suggest you PM me and we can handle this debate privately, for I am not going to look to this thread for a response. Sorry Scott, you meant well for this thread, but it seems like thoughts cannot be shared by everyone alike without assumptions quickly being made.
Mere words cannot express how disgusted I was by this execution. Shooting a man is one thing, but sawing his head off with a large knife is another. I cannot even begin to imagine the pain this man went through in the 30 or so seconds it took to end his life in that fashion.
I don’t have the stomach to watch such things but now that I know what you guys are talking about I remember seeing a bit of the clip in the news.
I thought it was a woman at first glance too.
What can I say…
Wars can be even worse than our imagination…
I can honestly say that this has made me sick to my stomach. I won’t feel sorry for the people responsible for this atrocity when American troops get their hands on them.
You freakin watched it!? WHY!?
I’m not making any more comment.
Someone gave me the link and i thought it was fake. I didn’t even know about the whole thing thats been broadcasted till someone explained it to me.
its sickening
Oh boo fucking hoo - I hate it how Americans think how they are so much more superior than the rest of the people in this world, and yet, claim that they are the VICTIMS. And yet, they go in and invade any country of their choosing without proper justification to do so.
To be completely honest, I wouldn’t mind if the terrorists dropped a couple of nukes or H-bombs on the US and destroyed the whole damn thing and everyone in it. I’d actually rejoice.
‘He who lives by the sword, will die by the sword’
Kadamose I hope you dont mean what youve said. I understand what you are getting at, America has been the agressor in this conflict and they should realise that they were at fault. However I do not think that murder is ever justified for whatever reason, killing maybe but not murder. America has murdered innocents in the war and none of it would have ever happened had America realised that it has to listen to the rest of the world. However rejoicing at HBombing of America? Are you serious? Just because the country has behaved badly does not mean the citizens are at fault, most of the American citizens believe the lies that their government has told them. Atomic bombs cannot be used without killing many innocent citizens and i hope they are not used again.
People who believe the lies of their country, and do nothing more than fulfill their role as a mindless consumer (consume, consume, consume) - aren’t really alive at all, anyway. They’re braindead zombies.
Therefore, it’s best to dispose of them properly before they multiply further and consume the rest of what’s left of the resources on this planet.
That’s probably a bit too right-wing, but it sums up my feelings to an extent.
Edit: Best clarify this in case I anger people. I disagree with America’s war policy under George Bush junior, and some comments made about statistics. I do not object to the country of America or it’s people. Except for Bill Gates.
America launches an illegal invasion into Iraq.
It kills many innocent civilians.
An American civillian gets beheaded.
Not exactly cancelling each other out, are they?