If the Wiki was used for basic factual information (ie: Enemy XX - First Appearance/Area/Behaviour etc) then I don’t see it crossing over with the articles at all.
Perhaps it would be an idea to let a few people loose on it first to see how it goes, or maybe have a password or similar so that it doesn’t get messed up by random visitors.
Kimimi, my main concern was not that a PD Wiki would be a threat to the whole site, but just certain sections (although that’s probably what you were talking about). The Factions and Characters sections would be the most “threatened”, as much of that information could end up getting repeated. However, in some ways, it might actually compliment existing articles. A Related Links section at the bottom of the Wiki could link back to articles on TWotA and other sites, for example.
By the way, that’s actually a pretty good idea about having a login system. If only members could edit the articles, we would have a way of tracking who was attempting to mess up the encyclopedia. I don’t know if such a feature is supported by MediaWiki (the open source software that Wikipedia uses), but I could perhaps attempt to code a system where with a single click, all edits made by a certain member could be removed, and the articles returned to the previous edits before they were spammed or whatever.
I want to take everyone’s opinions into consideration here. It would be great to hear from some of the people who have written articles already as well, especially for the Factions and Characters sections. Lance, Geoffrey, Jeremy, and co.
I think your idea Solo, has some great potential. On a bad note though, I’d hate it if in the future I or someone else wrote articles about any of the PD games based on facts, as well as peoples own opinions, only to have certain parts of those articles, deleted, or changed, just because someone can’t respect someone else’s opinions and creativity.
For example: Criticism of my own work in a past thread
Kimimi
Holy District Citizen
Joined: 20 Aug 2005
Posts: 213
Location: UK
Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:56 am Post subject:
Great that it’s being hosted now! I just had a look through the Hunter Cultures section - It’s hard to tell what is factual information from official resources and what is information you have assumed as fact through coming to conclusions yourself. Also, at no point do you state your sources. I personally feel that if you wish to create a PD site that people will go to for useful information, you need to clearly separate the fact from your own creative talent.
I kinda like the Coolias though - keeping them as little asides, or as commentators on the main text, would help to lift up dry factual documentation.
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legaiaflame
Holy District Citizen
Joined: 04 Aug 2003
Posts: 256
Location: The Town of Zoah
Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:31 am Post subject:
I didn’t state the sources because I didn’t use any. I used my own experience from playing the game to state the facts (like you said) on each culture in my own original way, not just a rehash of what other people have said. When playing the game, and listening to all of the dialogue, I was exposed to enough facts to formulate my own interesting assumptions, hence my source was the game itself. Many of these assumptions were based on common sense and others were just my own views and opinions on each culture, but for the most part it was just plain facts (example: Hunters using monster parts for antidotes and food. Glad you like the Coolia’s. I worked hard to create all their expressions!
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lordcraymen
Wormrider
Joined: 03 Jul 2003
Posts: 340
Location: Voltaic age
Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:52 am Post subject:
the game too is a source, so in a scientific sense you must state it as a source. I guess you have not understood why some people complained about your site some time ago for stealing other people’s theories and content. it’s not that you have to be original for the sake of originality. you can and should use other sources and theories and critisice them in a decent way, building your own structure of argumentation. from what you say it sounds that you have just been jumping to conclusions. and be aware that not everyone shares the same type of “common sense” that you claim to have.
“Well I guess they wanted to get rid of the ‘a boy and his dog’ concept.” “Great. Now they have a girl and her baby dog…”
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legaiaflame
Holy District Citizen
Joined: 04 Aug 2003
Posts: 256
Location: The Town of Zoah
Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:52 pm Post subject:
I don’t need to state it as a source, because it’s fairly obvious that I had to play the game first and foremost, to get screenshots, as well as info.
How can you say these things about my site, just look at TWOTA. Look at the many theories, factions, and characters sections. I didn’t see Geoffery Duke, or Solo give any sources on their articles. They had enough knowledge from playing the game multiple times, that it wasn’t needed.
Now back on topic. Just think if my PDS Culture section was made up as a Wiki page. Seeing all the negative responses, I would think certain people would change or delete certain things in my article. This would anger me greatly, as my PDS Culture section for the most part is very factual with a couple things created by myself for added creativity ( That could or may not be true), whether they be factual or not. IT’S MY OWN WORK.
So to sum my feelings about this up: I’d say it’s up to you, but be careful how you set everything up, so peoples hard work can’t be changed or ruined without their permission.
Kimimi’s concerns were very much valid and you should have taken them in consideration.
Nobody would edit your articles as long as it was stated that they were your personal view of the PD world.
The purpose of the wiki wouldn’t be to provide factual information but an easy way for people to publish articles after all.
Nobody would feel that certain information is not “correct” and should be edited unless the author himself said it is what he attempted to do and is also willing to accept contributions. For example, if you make an enemy list and mess up stats then of course someone may feel they should edit it. But if you present your personal view on the world or whatever then why would anyone edit that even if they disagree?
Hell, you don’t even have to contribute to it if you don’t want to. But don’t put down the community like that just because you didn’t like certain negative comments by saying that people would likely edit and ruin your work out of the blue.
i was gonna make a site like that x.x
hehe just need the time
I think it might help this discussion if we talk about exactly what we’d write up in a PD wiki - what subjects would be included? Would they be straight factual documents or would they include theoretical information too? How would it be different from the information already on the site?
I think we need to accept also that the very nature of a wiki is for it to change over time, as more information gets added by various people - I’m not talking about changing an individuals work, but addendums, footnotes and supporting mini articles go with the territory.
Also, nice way to hold a grudge Legaiaflame over a small paragraph of constructive critisicm that you asked the board for.
What I was thinking of was something more along the lines of the content found on Wikipedia. All of the content on Wikipedia is written like an normal encyclopedia - it’s called the free encyclopedia after all. So, any entries written or added to the encyclopedia would need to be pure fact… opinions, etc, wouldn’t be included, although various theories might be mentioned, but those theories would be entirely from a neutral perspective and would support all sides of the argument.
A good example of where opinions sort of fit in, though, is here (quoted from the PDS Wikipedia article):
Panzer Dragoon Saga was received with apparently unanimous praise from international gaming publications, citing its sophisticated art direction, vivid and unusual story and its cinematic, fluid battle system as particularly noteworthy.
The text doesn’t say “Panzer Dragoon Saga had an excellent battle system, and a beautiful art direction”. The writer keeps it very neutral. He is simply stating the facts, nothing more, exactly what an encyclopedia should be.
Of course there is room for opinions in other articles though - so long as it’s stated that they’re opinions - and that’s why private articles that can’t be modified by anyone such as your culture section will most likely continue to be written. The great thing about an open encyclopedia, is that entries can compliment existing articles by linking to all the articles about that topic on the internet. It could be pretty handy if you interested in certain topic in Panzer world - say, for example, the Hunters - and were able to read more about them on TWotA or PDS Oasis by following links at the bottom of the wiki that anyone could add to.
I guess that depends on what we decide to do with it. I was thinking of something more along the lines of Wikipedia, where it’s a simply a massive encyclopedia, but that’s just one idea. The wiki could include other things too, sure. Like Kimimi mentioned, we should discuss what types of articles the Wiki would contain.
I think something needs to be made clear though. A wiki is for everyone to contribute and edit. If someone writes an article that they don’t want anyone but themselves to edit, it would be far more suited to be on the main part of TWotA, or another site. If someone contributes to the wiki they can’t really put their name by it and claim it as their own - it belongs to the community.
So, if you create the “Will of the Ancients Wiki Section” the PD community could gather every fact known about each of the various PD games.
I think this is a good idea. And like you said Solo, the articles written on the WotA Wiki could be complemented with links to other sites containing even more articles as well as creative content not found on the Wiki.
Another thought, this compilation of factual encyclopedia info about every fact from every PD game would take a considerably great amount of work and dedication from the PD community and might take an entirely long time to finish. It’s not a bad thing, because everyone’s work will pay off.
We could have the most comprehensive and accurate facts ever compiled about the PD games.
When its done, we could even update the actual Wikipedia section on the PD series with all of our factual information. I’d say go for it Solo! 