Why dont we try to make a fan game?

I can help such an effort if there is some traction to it already, but I don’t have the time to drive an effort. I really am swamped with work (haven’t had a weekend off in 6 months) but I’d put time into this if others did.

Nevey if you are serious, I would suggest:

Downloading the UDK
Uploading the build to dropbox

then share the account out so we can all access same build.

From there, I would suggest somebody (anyone with web experience) :

  • Changes the front end graphics + hud to stuff stuff feel panzer-ish. It should be pretty easy to follow if you don’t change locations of stuff- just swap the current images for different images (it accepts TGAs + alpha channels, even .psds I think) Make sure you swap for the same image res (usually powers of 2)
  • Import in panzer music (not sure how that works) and swap out unreal music for panzer.

it would also be ideal if somebody could take all the panzer sound fx and convert them to unreal sound fx formats.

Once the front end and music changes, the build will feel a lot more panzerish. If stuff like that progresses, I’d download it and help make some sample maps that show how to fake dialog, build some levels, have some enemies- set it up so others could make content. I want to see how much people are committed though before spending any time.

UDK documentation if anyone is curious.
udn.epicgames.com/Three/UDKConte … nHome.html

I would recommend a desert like area (like Mechania) be a good location to think of. Again the neat thing is there are a lot of sample assets we could use- this should be all be in the database … we could strat with some of their stuff (like sandy steps, etc) and then customize it as we need it. Again it is really easy to change a texture- you just export it out, mess w/ it in photoshop, and import it back in.

udk.com/elements/img/galleri … dering.jpg
udk.com/elements/img/galleri … n-hero.jpg
udk.com/elements/img/galleri … g-hero.jpg
udk.com/elements/img/galleri … s-hero.jpg
udk.com/elements/img/galleri … g-hero.jpg

Sure… let’s see where this goes for a start. I can move the related topics to new forum if the project gets to that point.

Ok everyone, so you know I’m still on board and raring to go with this project - I’ve just not started anything like prep work yet because the new term of my course starts tomorrow and I’m in the middle of a 3000 word essay.

Those of you who are interested, a) get a Dropbox account, b) download Dropbox and c) PM me and I’ll send you the link to the fan game folder I’ve set up. Anyone, feel free to come up with/sketch out any ideas on either the Meccania or Excavation Site demo levels we’ve had suggested. Or if you’d like something other than these locations don’t be afraid to put your ideas in! :slight_smile:

I’ve not heard any protests for FPS on-foot levels so I’m going to assume we’re doing that. Is it too early to discuss a heads-up display? It just came up in my head, all I can think of to have at the moment is your standard life bar, the gun display, and maybe crosshairs - for realism we could go the way Killing Floor went and drop the crosshairs, or for simplicity’s sake just leave the crosshairs in. Thoughts?

I don’t know if it should be an FPS. Panzer to me is more about exploration and discovery. I don’t think it should be done as a shooting gallery with Panzer’s theme (funny, considering most of the Panzer games are on rails shooters, yet to me that’s not their defining element, as I still felt the amazement of discovering the new things the game threw at me). Not to mention it would get old fast if that’s all it was unless you could create compelling mechanics, AI, etc to rival AAA products, or a vast amount of custom content. It would be disapointing to the developers doing all that hard work if the players just played once, finished it, and then had little to discuss on top of that.

Why not attempt to keep combat at a bare minimum, something that you actively want to avoid because it’s really tough, really dangerous?

Maybe the levels could be gigantic with only a few points of interest. Ruins to explore, some safe havens, a couple of characters here and there maybe, a puzzle or two, randomly wandering dangerous monsters, and otherwise a plain gigantic desert. It shouldn’t be more work for the level designers as the desert itself could be plain with only the points of interest having the bulk of the artistic work. Terrain generation and altering isn’t the hardest part, is it? Without meaning it’s going to be just a flat ground of course, it could still have hills and ridges and possibly a small lake, and then the actual hard-worked-on structures placed far from each other around the landscape.

Perhaps add a survival aspect to it to entice players to go in the desert to hunt small prey yet flee from bigger monsters and only fight them as a last resort when all else fails.

Some of the mechanics could be simple to do. to begin with. Ie, you could have a constant low health damage effect on the player, and killing small prey would spawn healing items to simulate in a basic manner a hunter satisfying hunger, thirst, etc.

To imply distances bigger than they really are, you could have fog or sandstorm effects, so players can’t just see all the points of interest from one side of the level to the other, destroying the mystery, and the sense of danger as monsters would be visible from afar.

If a good scripter comes along he could potentially add a sophisticated hunting system, allowing players to track creatures from their, eh, droppings, their tracks on the sand, marks on the environment etc, similar to some hunting games.

You’d actively search for the small prey that is useful to you, and learn to recognise the signs of big baddies that you don’t want to hunt but avoid instead. Maybe you could even acquire new weapons through that process, that enable you to down bigger, and eventually the biggest prey (that could perhaps supposedly threaten a hunter or seeker village within the project’s simple story/setting).

Stuff like that, for when/if the project takes off with a decently assembled team.

But feel free to ignore me, I can’t contribute anything but ideas as I no longer do any 3D work (and I certainly never had the skill for UE3 level stuff anyway) and I’m aware that ideas nowadays are a dime a dozen for any such project. I just think this kind of concept could potentially offer more play and replay value even without the more sophisticated aspects, for the same amount of content/work. Win/win for developers and players.

I just find that games can sometimes give a great illusion of depth, purpose and good gameplay even with very basic mechanics, and mostly empty areas, so long as the atmosphere is helped by the music and sounds especially (I imagine is ok to use licenced material as I doubt it’ll get a cease and desist), so existing Panzer content like that already does a lot of the work for you possibly.

Anyway, whether you attempt something like this or not, I think it’s a key element to try and figure out what to do to extend the gameplay as much as possible for the smallest amount of content created, while keeping it not necessarily fun all the time (shooting is fun, walking isn’t on its own fun, for example), but atmospheric and engaging.

I think you’ve got a lot of really good ideas actually Al3x, you’ve certainly argued a good case for making a desert level. There could even be other caravans scattered around. Also anyone remember the monster that turned up in the caravan in PDS and the guy carving it said they used it to make weapons and antidotes? They could be sold, and different caravans could offer different prices. Thoughts?

I would argue in favour of the FPS idea: anyone played Bioshock? I’m just playing it for the first time and it’s the most intensely layered narrative ever. It’s an FPS bordering on an RPG. Explanations of the world are all around, written on the walls in blood or explained to you through your contact over the radio. You can pick up diaries and listen to them etc. I think you can still have a strong sense of exploration through an FPS, even in Bioshock you have the option of avoiding some enemies: they only attack you if you make the first move.

Oh, I wasn’t arguing against the view, I’m sorry if I came across like that. Sure, first person is fine. Less work too, as you don’t need to create a full character with animations etc, just his guns/tools instead. I’m fine with that for sure, whatever the creators want.

For the HUD you said, I imagine one is not even necessary to begin with, aside from the potential crosshair use (though perhaps the gun model itself could have some sort of aiming point that replaces crosshair). Until (or if) an inventory, barter, or other mechanics are created, perhaps it would be more engaging to exclude HUD elements for things like health, and instead indicate them to the player through sounds and visuals. Heavy breathing, heartbeats, and eventually blurring of the view etc. The sound clues could of course only occur at first, then settle down to avoid annoying players. They should be prominent enough to let them know they’re in grave danger unless they do something soon of course. The blurring of the view could remain for as long as you’re in danger, though grow subtler in time so that you can actually play. But not in a way that makes you feel safe. The sound cues could randomly replay to keep you on your toes.

The actual hits you receive could have their own intensity of visual and audio cues (screen shake, screen blurs, perhaps character screams and grunts) to let players know which are the more damaging attacks even if they haven’t yet depleted their health enough for the paragraph above to take effect.

A compass would be good. I think it’s more immersive to have characters or clues give you mere directions than have some kind of automap or HUD icons pinpointing locations. They could say go west until you meet this then head north to find that. So you’d head in the sandstorm following the compass hoping the information is good…

I think the first thing will be figuring out what kind of game can be made w/ no programming (as it doesn’t sound like there are any programmers on the thread).

I wouldn’t rule out 3rd person yet.

Then doing some tests areas to prove out concepts, then tying them together into an experience.

As a side, I can’t stress enough how easy it is to make levels in Unreal with pre-built pieces. You just drag around stuff- no modeling or material experience required. Hopefully I can take a look soon, pull all the relevant pieces into maps, and people can copy and paste pieces around to make new content. Spawning AI is a step beyond that, but I can make some easy to follow templates.

In terms of dialog, in my experiences w/ unreal is it is ironically easier to play voice dialog than text (which sorta sucks for us, but good for developers …)

3rd person can very easily be achieved with just unreal kismet (the scripting langauge of unreal ed) there’s a demo for that on 3dbuzz.com called “top down game” or something. problem with really huge levels is that if thee is nothing to interact with, it’s no game. I guess it’s a totally differnt thing if you talk about a sense of scale in a level. i mean imagine standing on a 10 square feet natural stone terasse inside the great canyon. certainly a small place, one false step and you fall 30 seconds into oblivion. though small it gives a hughe sense of scale. maybe that’s what you meant alexander?

Yes… the issue again w/ 3rd person isn’t so much the tech (it is a console command as well) , it is if it is appropriate for the character to move like a battle hardened marine (which is what I believe is available) . Human animation is very hard to get down- I don’t think we’ll be able to change that (and fps hides this). Again, we need to see it first, but it might not be appropriate.

i mean imagine standing on a 10 square feet natural stone terasse inside the great canyon. certainly a small place, one false step and you fall 30 seconds into oblivion. though small it gives a hughe sense of scale. <<

Yes … thinking of content without a lot of interaction would be a big win. Panzer Saga actually had a lot of this- compared to modern games, it was pretty sparce, yet still grabbed you. Not sure if that is more a relic of a different time, or if it would still be intriguing. I wonder if just a slower pace would be very helpful …

I think a large scale could still be employed without any need for filling it up with “stuff”. Just think of it like referencing Zwei Act 2, as long as what’s there is compelling, it doesn’t arbitrarily need “more”. Shadow of the Colossus is another great example.

Sure there needs to be a game, but that’s the case no matter what your content is. I can imagine flying a battleship around that desert area, almost playing hide-and-seek with adversaries, maybe even trying to board another ship…

I doubt anyone here played the old Mercenary games by Paul Woakes, but it’s certainly possible to give space itself importance.

Thanks for referencing SotC, that is kinda what I meant. Huge areas with few points of interest (the colossi in that case). The vast plain landscape became a point of interest on its own through the game’s atmosphere and mood, because it gave you a journey through it, a search, with an important end. Sure there wasn’t much to interact with in it, but it wasn’t any less important because of that. Though in my explanation of how it could work in a Panzer game there would be more interaction with enemies and what not inbetween the points of interest. But not too much. But it would include gameplay.

So, no, I didn’t mean to fake small areas into looking huge. I meant making an actual huge plain area, then filling it up with the occasional interesting structure and place, far away from each other. All the work that would normally go in a single detailed and intricate level, could go in just making those 5-10 places that you can visit in this desert I described (it doesn’t have to be a desert, but having effects that limit your view distance would be good, so, whatever, sandstorms, snowstorms, fog, anything works) so long as you can find them. Some safe havens, just to rest up, re-check your information, and be off on your way, some with actual interaction, maybe a caravan, maybe a small village, maybe a crazy old trader with his coolia, maybe an imperial search party or outpost, some ruins, etc. Whatever the story you guys will go for dictates. That is where the interaction/story/puzzling/boss battling could happen. The rest is a harsh world you have to survive and find the things you search for in, through NPC directions and exploration.

It would possibly feel like a sandbox game, without actually being one. Just a linear game (with backtracking, using the little content created several times is good to expand gameplay, as long as you don’t overdo it) that makes it hard for you to actually find the line, padding its linear gameplay that would last 1-2 hours with 3-4 additional hours of searching for the things you want, trying to survive in its harsh, interesting setting.

I may be wrong but I believe terrain generation isn’t the hardest part of level creation by far so it shouldn’t be too much work to dooddle a general map of the area you choose, recreate it as terrain with the occasional landmark (nothing fancy, maybe a lake, some big ass rocks, a dead tree, a giant wormhole, some half buried ruins like some of Lagi’s screenshots of existing content, etc), then put the actual effort into creating the points of interest alone, so the scale I’m discussing shouldn’t scare people into thinking it’s too much work for a community game. UE3 is good with terrain, right? Unless of course Lagi tells me I’m wrong and this isn’t as easy as I think.

I just think it’s a good way to expand the gameplay without expanding the amount of work needed quite as much as if it was a more conventional experience and approach.

Try to keep things Agile ( at least during the conceptual phase ) … Define a USP ( usually a mechanic / system ), then build a PoC with as little resources as possible.

Less talk, more do :anjou_embarassed:

Unless of course Lagi tells me I’m wrong and this isn’t as easy as I think. <<

You are correct. Terrain is pretty easy to make lots of “filler space”, ala SotC.

And yeah- you can make a wandering canyon, that leads up to some ruins.

I think what SotC failed on was making exploring rewarding at all. You wanter off to the countryside, and other than a few lizards, there was nothing there. If we just had an enemy variation (a bigger version of a small creature) , or some ruins (or wrecked battleship!) with a log of what happened, that would be cool.

I will see if I can dig into it within the next two weeks. …

I’d rather think that was not the point of the game. Quite the oposite, the huge empty space is a metaphor for “you can be spacially free but o so cruelly limited in your options”

yes … I have a lot of issues with that game. At GDC they talked about how they made the horse deliberately bad to control so it felt more like it had a mind of it’s own (at which point everyone applauded) and it is like “yeah cool in theory, not so cool when you keep getting killed by a boss because the horse doesn’t want to co-operate.”

I love that they push the envelope, (and I can’t wait for the next one) but a lot of their work I like better as an idea more than something I enjoy playing.

Funny that (from my experience) mostly hardcore action gamers have issues with the horse and the frame rate. I totally suck at action titles (including the PD games except Saga) but I never thought the horse would handle bulky in any way. Then again I have been riding a real horse once and know how that felt g comparing to that Agro feels like riding a bycicle.

I loved guiding the horse around the desolate landscapes in SOTC. But in battle - yeah, the horse controls were more awkward than they needed to be, even though it was realistic. Aiming the bow and steering the horse at the same time was especially tricky.

I think FPS controls would be fine for a fan game, although I’d prefer third person perspective for a Panzer game if it’s not too much more work to implement.

Regarding the activities of the game, I’d be happy playing something similar to Shenmue (but on a lesser scale of course) where there isn’t a lot of actual gameplay, but plenty of opportunities to examine the environment around you.

I know that XNA has already been spoken against, but in reality, if any of us make a game… I doubt any of us are going to be porting it to iPhone any time soon.

Anyway, there is a game almost exactly like Panzer Dragoon already made on XNA by a team in japan called Teamloli or something, I can’t remember what they were called (It defo had the word loli in it though, i remember that much).

It was basically Panzer Dragoon Orta with a Space ship and crazy ass looking lasers.

If I find the youtube videos again I will be sure to post them here.

Also, cocks.

[quote=“lagi_webmaster”]yes … I have a lot of issues with that game. At GDC they talked about how they made the horse deliberately bad to control so it felt more like it had a mind of it’s own (at which point everyone applauded)
[/quote]

ARE YOU KIDDING ME, lol sorry but that would just frustrate the heck out of me. Otherwise SotC looks superb, the camera angles are lovely, I can’t wait to play it some time.

I finished my latest essay so hopefully I’ll be able to set up a basic terrain tonight and upload to dropbox.

On the modelling front I found a free alternative to Zbrush called sculptris - have a look at the screenshots on the forums, it’s incredible drpetter.se/project_sculpt.html I browsed the forums and it’s looking like even people who feel they have no artistic talent are making some great stuff. Looks like we could make some great organic monsters.

@Nevey - Keep in mind that Sculptris does not support texture baking ( nor UV unwrapping ). Since sculpting tools are generally used to create normal maps for low(er)-poly meshes ( for game development at least ), you’ll still need a additional package to render your textures ( and create your base-mesh ).