What would you change in the Panzer Dragoon world?

Panzer Dragoon
21

[quote=“GehnTheBerserker”]I would get rid of names like Jean Jacque (Lundi).Such an original world and they still base the names out of existing ones…

French names in PD?No way I say![/quote]

Yeah, it does seem very “coincidental” with the PD world apparently not being Earth. I actually thought the same thing when I re-read Dune recently, where the main character’s name is Paul… forgetting of course that Dune is just meant to be set in the future. :anjou_disappointment:

I’ve thought that in the past, as it does seem a bit too archetypal. If there really was only one massive empire in the world though, the name of it possibly would translate into English as simply “the Empire”.

To be honest, that’s another thing that made the PDO ending feel “tacked on” to me; if it had been Smilebit’s intention to do that from the start, I’d have thought they’d get it filmed as a high-quality FMV (like the opening sequence, and like the opening and ending sequences of PDS). That ending is probably one of the things I’d change myself, as the dragon’s death still feels slightly random to me, and not presented in a dramatic enough way storyline-wise.

I’m not sure how many people noticed this, but Orta was entirely dressed up in ornate Seeker clothes; they’re the same sort of black-and-red things that the Seeker community wears in PDS, and in Iva’s story in PDO too. It does seem weird that they’d dress their loathed prisoner up so well.

22

Loathed?!Orta wasn’t loathed by the Seekers, she was beeing kept “following” Gash’s words.

23

The script seems to suggest that they didn’t treat her very well, though:

They were all afraid of me…
They said that I was the harbinger of destruction…

I was chained in a cage and told that
I would stay there until I was needed for war…

I have no family… no friends.

I am alone in this world!!

And also the narration:

Never before had she felt such warmth
and camaraderie as Mobo’s people
welcomed her into their homes.

Never before had she seen another
person so much as smile or laugh or love.
It was not something she was used to.

I’m still sceptical about the Gash link, too; it’d certainly make sense, but I suspect it would also make sense if those Seekers were simply holding Orta because they knew she was a Drone. They may have been acting on Gash’s past orders also, but the memory cell dialogue seems vague enough (to me) that it might have been in reference to Azel, from the time of PDS. (The “She is the seed of our future” / “We must protect it at all costs” lines, that is.)

24

I can tell you for a fact that the “We must protect it at all costs” quote is indeed a reference to Orta, Lance. I can’t see any other reason for it being in the game other than to shed light on Orta’s imprisonment, and well, official sources (coughAbaddcough) never lie, or do they? :anjou_happy:

25

I’m sure no one mentioned that when we were talking about this a few months ago… :anjou_disappointment:

But yeah, as to why I thought that text might be there (other than to shed light on Orta’s imprisonment), I was pretty convinced that it was meant to be a quote about Azel from the PDS era. I’m not sure if I’ve posted all of my reasoning for this before, but I’ve got a spare ten minutes so I’ll explain.

Now as you know, all of the old quotes that appear in PDO are reworded in some way, presumably because they were retranslated. I’d guess that Smilebit copied and pasted quotes from the old Japanese scripts into the Japanese PDO script, but of course, a different translator would have turned those lines into English this time around. For example, this quote from the Tower in PD1:

All ground units mobilized, initiate operations
and secure the area.

… appears in the PDO memory cells as:

All ground units mobilized.
Security measures initiated.

… and the Sky Rider’s lines:

Don’t… let him go back to the Tower…
my dragon… knows the way…

… appear as:

Don’t… let him reach the tower…
My dragon… knows the way…

… and Lundi’s final line from PDZ:

After all this, he is still with me…

… appears as:

He will… always be with me.

… and Sestren’s line from PDS:

Impurity detected…
Pursue at once…

… appears as:

Purging of bug initiated.

… and two of Gash’s quotes from PDS:

If the Tower ran our lives,
there would be no war.
But we’re not really living.
Just being kept alive.

But I’m sick of being kept alive
by the ghosts of the ancient ones.

… are changed into:

We’re not really alive…
We’re just being forced to live.

The Ancients’ spirits are
making sure of that.

Now, the “protect it at all costs” lines are grouped with all of these old quotes, in the second set of memory cells that Orta passes through. (In contrast, all of the “new” quotes relating to Panzer Dragoon Orta appear in the first set of memory cells, earlier in the level.) So, keeping that in mind, and also keeping in mind that one of the Seekers in PDS says this about Azel:

She’s the one.
We must protect her at all costs.

… I’d honestly have thought that these lines:

She is the seed of our future…
We must protect it at all costs.

… were just another reworded quote. Are you sure that “the official source” cough meant these lines specifically? In the past I firmly believed that they were about Orta myself, but I thought that would be a little coincidental given the above info…

26

I personally don’t know if Abadd confirmed this nor do I know if he’s a reliable source :stuck_out_tongue:

But what i do know is that the line in PDO is said by an old “voiced” Gash.That could imply it’s many years in the future and we can assume that he’s talking to his fellow Seekers about Orta.

PS:Isn’t it said somewher ein Pandora’s Box that Yelico Valley is the new “headquarters” of the Seekers in general?

27

I suspect that those lines might not be intended as Gash’s voice, though; a voice actor for Gash is given in the credits, but as far as I can tell, that’s credit for the lines “We’re not really alive… We’re just being forced to live. The Ancients’ spirits are making sure of that”. I completely forgot about this, but those lines in PDS were spoken in Japanese; in Panzer Dragoon Orta they’re spoken in Panzerese, though. As it’s a new recording that’s meant to be Gash’s voice, it seems to be what the Gash voice actor credit would be for.

28

Abadd confirmed that the person responsible for saying “we must protect it at all costs” was referring to Orta… in one of his posts at GameFAQs (he said that the answer to the question of why the Seekers imprisoned Orta lay in Forbidden Memories here as well), though I can’t remember if he attributed that particular quote to Gash.

IMO, the speaker does sound like Gash.

29

Abadd posts on GameFAQs? :anjou_wow: What name does he go under?

Do you think so? I guess it’s just a matter of opinion, but I thought the “seed of our future” voice sounded much “weaker” than Gash’s; I always remember Gash’s voice as very deep and very abrupt, but to me the voice in PDO seemed much lighter with speech that flowed more. (Although of course, that’s just my observation based on a couple of lines.)

30

Abadd posts as… Abadd.

As for the supposed voice of Gash, if Gash truly was the speaker, then perhaps any perceived changes in tone etc are meant to reflect the aging process. I do think it’s Gash’s voice though.

Gash would’ve been much older by the time he acquired Orta, assuming he was still alive at all. But knowing how determined Gash always was, he probably survived to be a ripe old age.

31

As far as I know, the GameFAQs Abadd unfortunately isn’t our Abadd; I remember a few weeks ago someone on GameFAQs asked him if he was “the Abadd who posts on TWotA”, and he assured them that he wasn’t. (Also, the GameFAQs Abadd does post some statements that I’m sure the TWotA Abadd wouldn’t make.) I suspect you’ve been mislead by a deceptive username… :anjou_sad:

I was just going to do some math on this, and it’s presented a slightly odd question - just how old is Orta, and how long could the Seekers have reasonably held her for? Do any official sources literally say what her age is at the time of the game? I remember reading somewhere that she “appears to be 14” (or something to that effect), but I can’t remember if we’ve ever been told directly. Given what she is, would she definitely be as old as she looks? (Or could her ageing process be completely different from a normal human’s?)

32

I’d say that since she is half human, then she’d age like a human too. Even if she was immortal, I assume she still grew up in the Seekers’ care. I doubt she was created fully grown…

As for Abadd, if the Abadd at GameFAQs isn’t him, then he sure is a great clone judging from his “all-knowing” comments. Perhaps Abadd figured out how to reproduce himself after all. :anjou_happy:

In any case, our Abadd did confirm that the answer to why the Seekers felt the need to imprison Orta lay in Forbidden Memories. In the light of how the Seekers treated Orta, I can’t see how the recorded voice proclaiming that “we must protect it at all costs” isn’t referring to her.

33

It slipped my mind, but right at the beginning of the PDO opening sequence we’re shown a clip of Orta in prison as a young girl; so we do know that she grew up, at least (and definitely while in the Seekers’ care).

:smiley:

Hmm… I still can’t help thinking that the Seekers said the same thing about Azel in PDS, part of it literally (“She’s the one. We must protect her at all costs.”) - and in opening the gateway to Sestren and destroying the Tower of Uru, I wouldn’t be surprised if people like the Seekers would think of Azel as “the seed of their future”. But if that were the explanation for those lines in PDO (which it may very well not be), and if our “official source” says that the reason for the Seekers imprisoning Orta lay in Forbidden Memories, could he be pointing us towards Azel’s message in that episode instead? Azel said something very mysterious about Orta “having the power to change the world”; could that simply be the Seekers’ motivation, to keep the powers or potential that Azel hints at locked up for themselves? I doubt we can be sure either way, but it strikes me as a fair alternative.

34

Abadd stated and I quote:

[quote=“Abadd”]One other thing… People often ask why the Seekers kept Orta locked up.

Seems like nobody pays enough attention to the memory cells…[/quote]

You can find these comments and many more in this topic where we discussed Orta’s father.

I think the voices recorded as saying “we must protect it at all costs” and perhaps even “she is the seed of our future” deliberately provide us with an insight into why the Seekers felt it was necessary to imprison Orta in order to help us put the pieces of this puzzle together. I see those recordings as clues that shed light on the truth behind Orta’s creation.

Something else we must remember is that new players who have no prior knowledge of the series would want an explanation too, and these recordings adequately do the job IMO.

35

Sorry guys, it’s not me :slight_smile: Though, I do often use the Conan quote that’s in his sig… Bizarre.

36

[quote=“Geoff”]As for the supposed voice of Gash, if Gash truly was the speaker, then perhaps any perceived changes in tone etc are meant to reflect the aging process. I do think it’s Gash’s voice though.
[/quote]

Exactly.

You have to think from Orta’s prespective Lance.Even tho it’s not a preregotive IN the Panzer world itself Orta still had to make sense of those memories gamewise.So if more “she’s” were implied then the regular player would have to associate them to Orta less he made no sense of it.

Sega/Smilebit were had new fans in mind too so I’m sure they thought of all the implications of out of context lines.

Lines like the ones “from the Tower” in PD1 were somewhat explained in Pandora’s Box via the PD1 intro FMV.Not much was left unthought.

37

You’re right, I’d completely forgotten about that topic; I think I assumed this was something from the Die Welt days. Either way, we probably shouldn’t worry about it too much; we know that the Seekers had more than enough motivation to keep Orta locked away, that Orta may have had special powers or potential beyond simply being a Drone, and that Gash would presumably still have been a living, high-up member of the Seeker culture at the time she came into their posession. I just checked the maths for the would-Gash-still-be-alive question too, and you’re quite right, he would be; for anyone who’s curious, I came up with the following approximate dates:

Imperial Year 091 - Gash is born.
Imperial Year 119 - PDS takes place. Gash is about 28.
Imperial Year 142 - Orta is “born”. Gash would be about 51.
Imperial Year 156 - PDO takes place. Orta is about 14. Gash would be about 65.

(Assuming that Orta really was 14 at the time of PDO, as Smilebit’s site implies, and that Gash was indeed 28 at the time of PDS, as TA’s old site said. And assuming that the creators were paying close attention to continuity, of course.)

Even if a future PD RPG doesn’t star Orta herself, I’d really like it to present an explanation for Orta’s early years, and how she came to be in the Seekers’ hands. That still seems like such a grey area; we don’t really know how they came across her in the first place, or more strangely, why Azel couldn’t be with her daughter as she grew up. Even if it just comes as a random side-explanation, like the readable book items in PDS (a Seeker Report from year 142, for example), I’d warmly welcome some details.

38

Keep in mind tho that the Seekers live off both intellegence and constant little wars so Gash could and in my opnion did die/have died.

I would like tho that Gash was the kind of character that wouldn’t have trouble with locking Orta like he seems to be in Saga : he doesn’t pay Azell too much credit since she’s a drone…

39

I really did think that the Abadd who posted at GameFAQs was you there for a while. I guess I should’ve known better when he described the ancients as human. :anjou_happy:

I would love to see more flashback scenes in the next game where we perhaps see Abadd having a long conversation with the Empire’s grand admiral (if that was grand admiral Galcian from Skies of Arcadia he would’ve put Abadd on a very short leash), and perhaps some flashback scenes that delve into Orta’s past (epsecially with regards to how she came into the Seekers’ possession).

Of course, I wouldn’t want any such flashback scenes to give away too much of the story… since we all want to suspense to stay alive.

Gash doesn’t show any respect for Azel at all. He certainly didn’t handle her with kid-gloves after she awoke the Tower of Uru, which subsequently killed hundreds of people. Why should he? In fact, I suspect that Gash only saw her as a means to an end: a drone capable of shutting down the same Tower she awoke.

Judging from Edge’s conversations with Gash, it becomes apparent that Gash despises the ancient technology used to oppress humanity, drones included. These sentiments were obviously inherited by Orta’s jailors. I wonder if we can actually blame them…

40

Definitely; a healthy level of mystery does seem to be necessary for the PD universe. In PDO’s case though, I’d say that it would be better to clarify some things rather than “leave them hanging”, as if too much stuff like this accumulates then stories run the risk of not making much sense. I think it’d be good for a future RPG to mention the following stuff somewhere along the line too, as side-info, flashbacks or details in a new plot:

  • Why Abadd wasn’t able to “resusscitate” his masters
  • Why Azel couldn’t be with Orta as she grew up
  • What Abadd needed Orta for, specifically
  • How the new dragon pup came into existence.

Instead of simply being mysterious, I’d say some of those things risk not making much sense as they stand, so clarifications would let the story stay on the safe side.

Apparently so, and yet they also dressed her up in very well-made looking Seeker clothes and gave her a scarf and decorative earings…