What are your "best" games of *Last-Gen*?

Other Games
1

OK, this is a self indulgent topic but I’d been thinking about the games that still have weight in my memory from the DC, PS2, XBOX and GC console generation. For the most part they haven’t changed from how I felt at the time.

JetSetRadioFuture… yeah, if anything after the chance to play it ‘new’ on 360 I’m even more sure it gets my top spot. I still have to wonder how much difference it could have made with the reception the game got if everyone who played it had first understood that it’s a platformer with more in common with Mario 64 or Sonic Adventure than Tony Hawks. The relentless attention to visual details and always evolving and engaging level design still blows me away. Taken with the art style and the music it’s an unparalleled assault of the senses, execepting maybe it’s older sibling.

Burnout 2… and I’m never big on racing games as a rule, but the unadulterated ‘gameness’ of it rules. Perfect controls that don’t compromise fun for some arbitrary measure of “realism” and stunning visuals combined with the fantasy of driving like a complete maniac (or moron) with no consequences other than the chance to see an absurdly spectacular crash that always looks different.

Sky Odyssey… I despair of ever seeing anything the likes of this game again. Even being PS2 first-gen and looking almost previous gen in many ways it doesn’t matter, a rock solid 60-fps and good draw distance with huge spooling landscapes was more than enough for my own suspension of disbelief. Obviously most people only enjoy flying in a game as a secondary experience to killing things, but getting good enough to master every challenge was as thrilling an acomplishment as I’ve ever found in a videogame.

Phantasy Star Online… a tough choice but I have to be fair, the four months I did spend with this game showed me what the fuss is about with comunity RPG’s. Kind of an unfinished experience ultimately, and attempts to finish it only broke it but still… mad props.

Halo… another tough choice oddly enough, it’s not a very personal game for me but it’s just so freaking good. I can understand people being disappointed if they played it after the hype built up, and even worse if they had the story spoiled, but as a launch game I mean… god damn!

I seem to be very partial to ‘pure’ videogames anymore, I may just be too old-school but, I also think videogames have lost their identity the last several years. For example, Panzer Dragoon Saga is one of the most progressive games ever made judged by the contemporary criteria as an interactive action movie as much as a game. But it still holds to a sense of the priorities of being a game first, which is becoming rarer all the time IME (in my estimation).

So, anyone else?

2

PS2: Okami, Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 3, Odin Sphere, Fatal Frame 2, Zone of the Enders 2, Devil May Cry, Ico, Shadow of the Colossus

X-Box: Beyond Good and Evil, Panzer Dragoon Orta

Gamecube: The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker, Eternal Darkness: Sanity’s Requiem

That’s all I can think of right now.

Dreamcast? Last-gen? Well okay. Samba De Amigo.

3

I’ll probably edit in actual detail later on. :stuck_out_tongue:

–Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver 2 and Legacy of Kain: Defiance

–Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne

–Both halves of the Digital Devil Saga experience

–Shadow Hearts: Covenant

–Final Fantasy XII

–Suikoden III

–Devil May Cry

–Zone of the Enders: The 2nd Runner

–Beyond Good & Evil

–Rez

–ICO and Shadow of the Colossus

–Okami

–Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time

–Though incredibly flawed, the Xenosaga trilogy left quite the collective impact on me

–Dreamfall: The Longest Journey

–Syberia and Syberia 2

–Soul Calibur II

–Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty

–Panzer Dragoon Orta

–Phantom Dust

There are quite a few that I’m probably forgetting, and there are a few that I actually haven’t played yet (Kotor, Jade Empire, Ninja Gaiden, both Deus Ex titles, need to FINISH Persona 3 before making a call on it).

Perhaps it’s because I’m not the most old-school type in the world, but I had an absolutely obscene amount of fun with this past generation, and I still am, as it’s only somewhat recently that I purchased an Xbox. This past generation has thus far given me a vast wealth of memorable experiences, and those listed above are wonderful highlights of the generation.

4

I made a topic similar to this sometime ago, and in the spirit of laziness I’ll just link to that topic rather than compiling another list. My list would be more or less the same now though.

forums.panzerdragoon.net/viewtopic.php?t=1988

5

My preferences have actually changed a lot since the thread Solo mentioned. Mainly because I bough a PS2 and played a lot more games since.

Rez - I played it 5 years after it’s original release on the DC and it instantly become one of my favourite games ever. I can’t wait to get to play it in HD on my X360 with 5.1 surround sound. :anjou_wow:

Soul Reaver 2 : Good gameplay. The best soundtrack of last gen. Awesome characters, level design and concept art. Add to that the fact that this is the game with the best narrative (notice how I don’t use the word “story”) out there and you’re crazy if you never played it.

Ico - Like Rez I played it a long time after it’s release and it still managed become one of my all time favourites. Something to be experienced. From a game designer wannabe point of view no other game as spurred as many ideas in my head. If you look at it’s gameplay you’d call me crazy but but making things simple it made me realize The Truth about game design.

SotC - Even better than Ico and my current favourite game. A masterpiece. I was just a little bit disappointed in the music and it’s flow when compared with Ico. Some people are graphic whres I’m a music whore.

Halo - best FPS ever.

Panzer Dragoon Orta - Gameplay wise this is the best rail shooter ever. Like I mentioned before i have some quarrels with the art and music department. Apart from that though this is gold.

LoK:Defiance - After some time has passed I can see now that I still prefer Soul Reaver 2. Barely though. This game has it all.

Shenmue 2 - Now I see what all the fuss was about. Only downside is I played the game with english voice overs.

Myst IV : Revelation - Second best in the series after Riven. One heck of a ride and some of the toughest puzzles out there.

6

Ahh, I didn’t remember that thread Solo, I don’t think I was looking in at all around that time anyway.

And dragoon lover, Dreamcast is absolutely part of that generation, the 640x480 generation essentially. I’ve seen that type of comment before though, perhaps that reflects how successful Sony was at getting people to think of DC as obsolete well before PS2 showed up. If it was previous gen then it would make PS2 look just incredibly pathetic since DC outmatches it in certain respects… like pro-scan (with VGA) support for every 3D title, typically higher quality textures, always on anti-aliasing, and some nifty imaging tricks PS2 had to really strain to even emulate.

If I added another five games… ICO would definitely creep in there, possibly Grandia 2, Ninja Gaiden, Splnter Cell, Soul Calibur is amazing but without the arcade experience fighting games can’t quite cut it for me. Orta… as much as I’ve championed it and love it, it’s not a totally fresh experience and not my fave shooter in the series. And for that matter Panzer Dragoon Zwei has stiff competition just for my fave Saturn games. I can’t quite commit to top ten I guess.

There’s some more PS2 games I wish I’d played like SotC and Monster Hunter and especially Okami… and I intend to go back to the library once I pick up a PS3 actually. And I still need to play Resident Evil 4 as well, I haven’t had my Gamecube hooked up in years though, too many disappointments and an ever growing hatred of the controllers and… well I’m sure I can’t really give the system a fair shake but there was more than enough games for me to not get around to finishing on XBOX anyway. shrug

7

Highlights of the last generation for me undoubtably include:

Sonic Adventure
Sega Rally 2
Shenmue 1 & 2
KOTOR
Halo 1 & 2
MORROWIND
Splinter Cell and Chaos Theory

The highlight of the highlights are probably Halo and Morrowind. Just simply as perfect as any games can hope to be.

8

Tough call. I can’t think of my precise list at the moment, but when I do I’ll revisit this thread and edit this post to include the list.

Strangely enough, I don’t think PDO would be on that list. It’s really more “Honorable Mentions” grade stuff, sad to say.

It’s not that I don’t appreciate Panzer like I used to, it’s just that as I get older my standards for what constitutes a great game tend to become higher and higher as the quality of output in the industry gets lower and lower.

9

I like that sentiment Neil, and I may have to admit that my own feelings about PDO are completely connected to nostalgia. Which is not a bad thing in and of itself, the game made good on my minimum expectations for the series, which were as I’ve stated before already greatly adjusted. Perhaps that’s why I so appreciate seeing new fans show up because of Orta, it proves that the game does stand on it’s own, something I know I cannot gauge objectively.

But I also relate to the principle of becoming more critical in response to lowered baselines obviously, though I’m guessing you still aren’t as “older” as me… :anjou_sigh:

EDIT: On an impulse I looked at the profile thread and I don’t have to guess, I KNOW you’re something on the order of half my age… :anjou even more sad:

10

The reason why Panzer Dragoon Orta made it into my list was because the Panzer Dragoon shooter formula, in my honest opinion, captures exactly what is missing from gaming at the moment.

Panzer Dragoon Orta features a combination of real time story telling and non stop action, based in an immersive world. Many games require the player to trek from location A to B to get the next segment of the story, but Panzer Dragoon Orta keeps it interesting the whole time. There’s no “downtime” in the story, and yet - cut scenes aside - you’re always in control of the dragon, so it’s actually a really good example of what an interactive movie should be like. An interactive action movie, at least. Games like Halo do this very well too, but the fact Panzer is an on rails shooter actually works to its advantage, as cinematic chase sequences (such as chasing Abadd through the ruins, or the waterfall section in Episode 2) are much harder to keep the player on the right path if they’re given control over their direction.

11

I may hope that sentiment is also implicit in my responses Solo… and I think I have communicated something congruent with the notion at other times. I absolutely feel that Orta epitomizes a kind of integration of solid action mechanics with narrative timing, which is rare in the extreme anymore. Again it is my own lack of certainty of perspective which may hold me from including Orta as a champion of the generation. I ADORE the experience I had with the game, yet it is incontrovertibly connected to emotions from another generation.

12

That is a good point - I wonder just how much I would have enjoyed Orta if I hadn’t played any of the Saturn games. Maybe I still would have loved it; maybe not. As you say, it is reassuring when you hear of Panzer fans who have only played Orta.

13

This is a weird tangential response having as much to do with me being sloshed as anything else but…

With your reference to your (Solo Wing Dragon’s) other topic I’m reminded of something I don’t think I’ve mentioned before, I can’t agree that Orta is the best shooter based on mechanics, but I know that I didn’t really appreciate the game at all until I’d learned the game. Unlike Zwei the game flow doesn’t lend itself to spontaneous response, and while the front end challenge is less than Zwei OR Eins the challenge of perfecting the game seemed at least as high as the Saturn shooters, to me.

So that’s what defines the discrepancy in gameplay for myself…

14

[quote=“Heretic Agnostic”]
But I also relate to the principle of becoming more critical in response to lowered baselines obviously, though I’m guessing you still aren’t as “older” as me… :anjou_sigh:

EDIT: On an impulse I looked at the profile thread and I don’t have to guess, I KNOW you’re something on the order of half my age… :anjou even more sad:[/quote]

That thread is a good three years old, bucko.

I’ll be nineteen in a month and a half. So if you’re pushing forty, then I am indeed half your age.

15

True - you can get through PDO the first time through just by shooting, with the odd morph or boost (especially if you’re playing on Easy). It’s only when you start to learn to play tactically that the gameplay really starts to take shape. I’d say that the game is more tactical than the first two games though, more in line with Saga, which is what I like about it.

[quote=“Neil”]That thread is a good three years old, bucko.

I’ll be nineteen in a month and a half. So if you’re pushing forty, then I am indeed half your age.[/quote]

Dedicated “profile” pages for each member might be a worthwhile addition to these forums, what do you think? I could look around for some mods to phpBB to expand the current profiles to include information such as age, gender, job, photos etc. This site could do with some “Web 2.0” features to increase the interactivity a bit. Let me know if you can see any flaws in that idea.

16

That’s actually the issue I have with on-rails games. While I think having some sections of a game be on rails to highlight action bits is fine (for example, if you were to make a Bourne Identity game, the car chase scene would be a good part), but all in all, I don’t think games should try to be movies. Instead, they should strive to be their own medium entirely.

While I’m not saying that there isn’t room for games like PDO where it tries to show you a cinematic experience with the hand of the designers pushing you along with little choice but to follow, but I’d rather much see the genre evolve in the direction of Ico, Shadow of the Colossus, Half Life 2, etc where the vast majority of the emotion the player feels comes about due to the interactivity, with minimal removal of the player from the game world. Best example from the current generation: Portal.

That being said, to answer the thread subject:

  • Ico
  • Shadow of the Colossus
  • Psychonauts
  • Halo 2
  • Morrowind
  • Guitar Hero 2
  • Metroid Prime
  • Beyond Good & Evil
  • Zelda: Wind Waker
  • Star Wars: KOTOR
  • and probably a few more I can’t think of.

BONUS!

Biggest Surprises:

  • Guitar Hero: Never thought someone could do this right and make it popular.
  • Suikoden 3: One of the few JRPGs I actually enjoyed playing in recent years.
  • Chronicles of Riddick: OMG, a licensed title that’s actually really good??
  • Jak & Daxter: Completely expected this to be a mediocre attempt at creating another platforming series, but was instead surprised by an insane amount of polish, seamless game worlds, and character animation to rival the top movie animation studios.
  • Indigo Prophecy: So ambitious, with a fantastic beginning… (continued below)

Biggest Disappointments:

  • MGS2: My god, someone please make him stop writing. Please!
  • Xenosaga: The team wanted to make an anime, not a game. Nothing like watching a 20 minute cutscene then taking control of your character, only to trigger another 20 minute cutscene by walking 5 steps. Especially when the writing is bad, the animation is bad, etc.
  • Splinter Cell: Very interesting gameplay… horrible presentation of story. Got better with the second and third, but the gameplay simply didn’t evolve enough.
  • Indigo Prophecy: …horrible ending.
  • Mario Sunshine: The game was polished, no doubt, but it simply wasn’t fun. I felt no motivation to do anything the game asked me to do.
  • .hack: My god, what a fantastic setting idea… delivered in a completely remedial game.
  • Fable: Completely failed to deliver on the promises set forth.

edit:

One more disappointment:

  • Killzone: Good graphics for the PS2, but very mediocre game design with unpolished controls. Other than the fact that it’s decent eye candy, I have no idea why PS3 fans are waiting Killzone 2 with baited breath.
17

Just naming favorites on each platform.

PS2: Shadow of the Colossus
GameCube: Tales of Symphonia
Xbox: Jet Set Radio Future
PC: Civilization IV

Also, Abadd is spot on in regards to Xenosaga.

18

[quote=“Abadd”]That’s actually the issue I have with on-rails games. While I think having some sections of a game be on rails to highlight action bits is fine (for example, if you were to make a Bourne Identity game, the car chase scene would be a good part), but all in all, I don’t think games should try to be movies. Instead, they should strive to be their own medium entirely.

While I’m not saying that there isn’t room for games like PDO where it tries to show you a cinematic experience with the hand of the designers pushing you along with little choice but to follow, but I’d rather much see the genre evolve in the direction of Ico, Shadow of the Colossus, Half Life 2, etc where the vast majority of the emotion the player feels comes about due to the interactivity, with minimal removal of the player from the game world. Best example from the current generation: Portal.[/quote]

I’m all for games like Half-Life 2 and Ico which attempt to tell the story interactively, but I don’t think fully interactive games are ideal for every aspect of story telling.

Take dialogue/conversation scenes for example. These are purposely kept to the minimum in Ico, and the story works well because of this. Half-Life 2 suceeds quite well in this area, but I do feel that it leaves much to be desired in terms of the way that the characters interact with you. For example, if you’re jumping around on top of computers and clearly not paying attention to the character who is talking to you, it seems a bit odd that they would keep talking to you as normal, especially if it’s an emotionally important subject. In some cases this may just be a matter of improving the AI, but what about - for example - the confrontation between Edge and Craymen at the end of Disc 3 of PDS. This was done as an FMV in the game, but imagine being fully in control of Edge while this was happening. It would take away the believably of the scene if Edge was over in the corner examining the wall, while Craymen explained why he murdered Edge’s captain. However, if the player was only partially in control of Edge, this would allow the designer to narrow down the number of responses, forcing the player to focus on what was important to that particular scene.

I don’t know if I explained that very well, as it doesn’t really relate to PDO, but more or less my line of thinking is: minimize the control the player has during important scenes, and it will keep them more focused on what is actually important during that scene.

19

[quote]

  1. Panzer Dragoon ORTA - X Box

Well I love it amd loved the way it kept on the Panzer Dragoon Trademarks (for me) like the amazing water effects, brilliant music score, amazing bosses , great story and voice acting . And the way the morphing and boss system form SAGA was used in ORTA was nothing sort of Genius

2). REZ - DC

2nd best game SEGA ever made in thier history imo. The game feels almost Spiritual , and Aera 5 along with Adam Freeland music score is just jaw dropping . I only wish I had 0.01% of the Art team talent.

Tetsuya Mizuguchi you are a Genius sir

3). JSRF- X-Box. Relly don’t know why there’s so much hate of the this game, its miles better than JSR with the only bad being the ploice chief wasn’t half as good as the one inthe DC version (so much character)

  1. Sonic Adv - DC

I still to this play this game, when I 1st had it over Christmas 1998 my jaw hit the floor so much , I had jaw Ache . The best Sonic game after Sonic CD and the 2nd best platform games I’ve ever played . The ammount of work and money that must have been spent of the Music score alone was mindblowing

5). O.TO.GI II - X-Box

This game is An experience in it?s self . Some of the best ART direction I?ve ever seen . Thumbs up to the stunning translation SEGA America did on the western version

  1. ICO- PS2.

For me Team ICO are SONY’s very own TA and thier games feel just as specail as the ones that TA made.

7). SEGA GT Online- X-Box

Yes all laugh , but I loved this along with F355 . The best car control and handling since SEGA Rallly . The car models are the best this side of GT , and the track desgin some of the best ever. I so wish and hope SEGA will give the series one more go

8). Kung Fu Chaos - X-Box

If this waas the work of a Capcom I’ll never hear the end of how only a Jp Team can make a fighter this good ect. This for me is better than PowerStone looks and soudns amazing, the level desgin is Inspired and the level where 4 players have to jump over a spping pipe is the best party and drinking game ever made.

9). Code Veronica - DC

For the best inthe series after the 1st game, and yes way better than RE4. The story was the best inthe whole of the series as was the cast of characters . I almost almost chocked on my can of beer the 1st time I loaded this up on impert (it was hard to tell was CGI and what wasn?t)

10 Riddick - X-Box

Forget your HALO’s and Prime this was by far the better FPS’s . Starbreeze are the new Lobotomy and Magnus Hoghal the new Ezra Driesback .

Also special mention must go to PSO . The easy of use just meant is was such a magical place to go, and meet people from around the world to work as Team.
It’s not very often a game will come along where I rather stay in, rather than go down the pub. This was such a game[/quote]

Well adding to my list …

I like to add

Oddworld Stranger - Such a overlooked gem , brilliant game almost like 2 games in one, not just in gameplay terms , but also in story terms (with the real game taking place after the Bounty Hunter parts) Best end part to a game ever (I think) and it had almost Shenmue like visuals and scale .

Galleon - Yeah ok its was buggy and the control system flawed , but it was such a fantasic adventure and so well planned and set out , that I didn’t care . Brilliant story (felt I was playing Sinbad) and hands down some of the best voice acting I’ve had the pleasure to hear.

Gradius V- Does it get any better than Treasue handling the visuals and gameplay and Hitoshi Sakimoto providing the music I think not. If the 1st level music and gameplay in this , doesn’t get you going nothing will.

Conkers (X-Box) Yeah all laugh , but its one of the best laughs and most fun I’ve in game , and the visuals are to die for (looks like a 360 game)

Operation Flashpoint (X-Box) - No game comes close to making you feel like you’re taking part on real warfare as in this game . Proof that visuals aren’t always needed for a great game

Brothers In Arms - So real its hurts , even the loading screens moved me

Full Spectrum Warrior - If people wanted to get some sort of idea of what the poor sods in Iraq are having to face and put up with, you just need to play this game . Amazing sense of atmosphere , and makes a Squad contro fun and one thats works on a console (no mean feet)

OutRun II 2006 CTC - These days is hard to play a game thats feels like the SEGA of old. This game feels and plays like the SEGA of old and shows there’s still some magic left SEGA. Shame there’s no market for these games any more

House of The Dead II- Its a shame but its only now , that I’m starting to appreciate how good and how much depth this shooter has, I knew it was good when it 1st came out , but its only now that I fully understand and appreciate how good and how much above most other gun game it really is

Ninja Gadien - Best action and combat system ever seen in any game . Much like with HOTD II, it’s only now years after is 1st came out , am I waking up to how good it really is .

GOW (PS2) The only game to do ray harryhausen any sort of justice . A rip roaring game from start to finish with production vaules to die for , and some of the best bosses ever seen in a game

20

Sure, which is why I added the caveat that there’d always be rooms for games that tell a more direct story. But, you can still have that sort of impactful sequence, but make it so that it is impactful because of the player’s choices. While a very basic example of this, take Star Wars: KOTOR, for example. The dialog sequences are under the control of the player, but the player is locked into them. Slightly more linear than true free form gameplay, but allows the actual story to be interactive, rather than something like, say, Xenosaga where you are relegated to only playing the most boring bits of the story (i.e. running from room to room - which is the part that would get cut out of a movie), while the development team holds you captive to tell you, at excruciating length, the story that they want to tell.

To me, the point of interactive storytelling is to allow the player to actually affect the story. How much effect the player has on the story will vary greatly from game to game, but I think that even if the outcome is predetermined, at least give the player the power to affect the journey.