Um no, I don’t think Valkyria Chronicles doing initially better on PSP than on PS3 means that maybe Abadd has a point. An unsuccesful PS3 game gets an unsuccesful PSP sequel (though the PSP game probably at least will make its money back, lower dev costs and all). Holy shit? Where’s the surprise in that? It just goes to show what I told him already, that ratings don’t mean shit for sales, the mainstream buyer can have no desire to own a game even if it’s considered the best thing since sliced bread by critics. Final Fantasy Tactics on PSP sold better, despite being a port, so perhaps that’s the type of game they prefer, traditional turn based and all. Who knows? Piracy certainly isn’t an evident factor here, it’s merely a guess to suit one’s arguments and prejudices really.
Yeah this was what I was getting at. Unless someone games exclusively on handhelds, or uses their handheld more than their console, it makes more sense to get the PS3 version.
And yet MM hunter can sell brilliant on the PSP, while the PS2 versions didn’t set the charts sales alight .
And as for costs , I’m sure that while Val 2 on the PSP cost less,I wouldn’t imagine it be that much less, Given it was pretty much the same team , its more or less an all out sequel , new engine had to be made to run onthe PSP, and it was over 2 and half years in Production .
I wouldn’t have thought VAL 2 was that cheap to make
It’s MH, but no, the first portable MH game didn’t sell THAT much better than the PS2’s (which were by no means unsuccesful for a new IP AND having the benefit of subscription income on top of that AND requiring the not so widespread PS2 online equipment) but the series did grow afterwards, and like said already, to the players being portable and having free local cooperative play instead of p2p online improved the experience. It just clicked better like that. VC2 does nothing like it, apparently. Glad you agree it cost less. Not sure how a succesful action RPG that sells like hot cakes means that VC2 should have sold better leading to piracy being the cause it didn’t. Again, MH sells like hot cakes when they could just as well pirate that too. But all that’s straying from Abadd’s argument since he separated Western from Eastern sales, claiming piracy issues don’t apply there.
Arguing with you is like arguing with anti-evolution people. They have a preconceived notion of what exists and use selective data to “prove” their point. You stated that games with high ratings that happen to sell well is because of all the other factors involved. I said that a high rating is one of the requirements for a game selling at AAA levels. I have no idea what you are trying to argue.
A game gets a high rating due to a) a good implementation, which is contingent on b) a team with solid production processes, and sometimes c) a producer/designer with a clear vision (which is pretty obvious from the first point). Resources on a game are largely irrelevant, simply due to the fact that every type of game does not cost the same. One type of game may cost $40M to make and will sell millions, another game may cost half of that and still sell millions. The costs come into play for a wide variety of reasons, so simply stating that throwing money and a high level developer at a game will make it great is, well, naive.
And yes, many games are outsourced. Well, portions of games. Bioshock, for example, was made in bits and pieces all over the world. In this day and age, it’s nearly impossible to create a large-scale game without outsourcing. I’m not entirely sure what your point was there.
And you need to brush up on your logic. You can have something that is a requirement of another thing, but not a guarantee. Let’s take basketball, for example. It’s pretty much a requirement that you must be tall to play in the NBA. HOWEVER, being tall does not guarantee that you will be able to play in the NBA. You dig? Of course, like I’ve said many, many times now, there are always exceptions, but that is the general rule.
In order to sell millions of units in the traditional gaming space, you need to have a high rating (I believe it was 85+ in the last round of research we did). However, being at that level did not guarantee high sales. There were many mitigating factors - the setting of your game, the genre, etc. When you look at the data laid out, there is a clear correlation. However, figuring out what those mitigating factors were was actually something I spent the better part of a year researching. Never once did I say that high review scores were the sole requirement for selling well.
But go on, you can keep talking about your “common sense.” I will continue looking at the research of every analyst I’ve met that shows you really don’t know what you’re talking about.
(And I didn’t not read the rest of your earlier post - just didn’t bother to respond to it because it was all conjecture on your part. And incorrect conjecture at that. 2D Mario games have “always” been more popular? Um… what 2D Mario games are you talking about? The whole reason why New Super Mario was such a big deal on the DS is precisely because there hadn’t been one in a while. And besides, I brought that up because you stated that GTA was only popular because of the switch to 3D, and that 2D wouldn’t sell.)
I willing to be corrected , but I thought the 1st MH on the PSP was a massive smash and sold far better than its bigger brother PS2 version . I take the points about online play cost and set up (for the PSP) but then, aren’t Phantasy Star 0 and Phantasy Star Portable II Online and free ? and both busting with huge content (especially in Zero’s case) yet they sold rather poor , compared to the 1st Phantasy Star Portable .
And if your game doesn’t sell great, I don’t it really help if you have paying Sub’s , I doubt it really helped PSU cause , which must have lost SEGA a huge ammount of money .
Also ‘again’ I’m willing to be corrected (has I’ve haven’t played the retail version) but doesn’t VC 2 offer full Multi Player co-op and Multi Player modes ?. Yet it still sold poor , and no better than its 'single player only 'bigger brother
@TA: I dunno why you’re having a hard time understanding that a game may become popular and another may not be liked as much regardless of any number of bullet points. Bullet points don’t make the game just as appealing and just as good to the consumer. The experience of all those games is completely different to Monster Hunter, one can be a MH fan and not like the others, so why exactly would they all sell the same?
Do you like all rail shooters like PDZ? Do you like all JRPGs like Saga? They’d all have similar bullet points, right? But does that make you buy them all? I imagine the answer is no. Valkyria Chronicles 1 & 2 are Valkyria Chronicles 1 & 2. People don’t want them, so people don’t buy them en masse, neither on PS3, nor on PSP. That doesn’t mean piracy is to blame, especially when the PS3 is still crack free, and when other PSP games which manage to appeal to a larger audience sell well.
Phantasy Star Portable sold pretty good, hence why it got a sequel that also did well in Japan. Also, another similar type of game called God Eater was just released for PSP and is also selling rather well considering the fierce competition (almost half a million sales as of Feb 21, within just 3 weeks from its initial release).
Neither reached MH heights (which actually still charts despite being rather old by now) but hey, Digimon stuff didn’t do as good as Pokemon either. No amount of bullet points showing how similar Digimon is to Pokemon will make people like it more. That’s not how it works and you know it but once again you’re arguing for the sake of arguing.
@Abadd: maybe you need to check out the lifetime sales of all Mario games to see that both Mario 64 and Galaxy are pretty far down the scale, showing that indeed 2D Mario has been historically more popular than 3D, for the games pushed by Nintendo as the “main entries” in the franchise at least.
And lol @ comparing 2D GTA to 2D Mario for sales potential. 2D Mario doesn’t sell just because it’s 2D, nor did I imply that. It sells because it’s what people enjoy as a whole. That doesn’t mean every 2D game ever can sell just as good, obviously (do all 3D games sell equally?). I’m not even sure why I need to state this, I already said it in my previous comment when I showed that Super Paper Mario, while sharing many of the same elements as NSMB, didn’t do as good, so apparently it lacked all the other factors needed for ludicrous sales. The same for the last Wario Land game. None of those are NSMB, none of those sold as good despite any number of bullet points and reviews.
Here, I found a chart listing the Japanese Mario sales. It’s not worldwide, but look where Galaxy fits. The chart is clear even ignoring NSMB. Of course it’s not the “2D” bullet point that makes others sell, it’s merely that more people enjoy this gameplay, whereas in GTA’s case, it’s clear the franchise boomed far beyond the first titles when it went 3D, showing that’s where its success stemmed from, that new type of gameplay. Reverting to the old type should in no way be expected to perform just as well. The DS version did great for what it is, the PSP version did poorly possibly for reasons I stated before rather than the knee jerk reaction of running around in circles screaming piracy. Rockstar was dumb to believe the various ignorami (among those various analysts that you trust so much, who claimed it would do so much better on PSP even though they have your piracy data and analysis, and were clearly wrong) who run around claiming it’s the DS’ fault it didn’t sell. It was the game’s lack of mainstream appeal, as proven by the PSP port.
I never said throwing money is the only requirement for a good game nor did I say outsourcing isn’t done, isn’t useful or cannot be done right. I merely said more money will result in a better product. Better than what? Anything? Nope, but better than it would be without that money spent. Hence why FFXIII wasn’t sprouted in a year 100% outsourced to some dodgy low level cheap as hell studio but instead needed several years of development with top collaborations which means, holy shit, more money spent. And no, that didn’t make it the best game ever, but it made it a better product than without.
That’s kind of Abadd point isn’t , MH isn’t the best example to use . It is, but one game , and the general trend, is that PSP games sales are poor given the Huge user base , and Piracy is a HUGE factor in that
I think the same for PC’s , given that everyone and their MUM has a PC, yet software sales are pretty poor
Now we keep hearing from you about extra content and modes ECT, ECT. Yet games like VAl II, or PS 0 don’t sell that great , ok in VAL II it was coming off a game which didn’t sell that great (1 could say the same about MH) but inthe like of PS 0 and PSP II cases ?
What this has got to with MH I do not know , because I like Videogames , that means, I should like ALL games , every single one ???
And that because a games gets a sequel , that doesn’t always means it ‘must’ have sold well .
JSR sell well ?, SEGA GT 2002 sell well ? . I don’t really think so , it a lot of cases its also because a developer is ready to give it another go , another chance , in order to grow/establish a series .
We even got or getting (in Okami case) sequels to Steel Battalion, Viewtiful Joe , Okami , none of which I think sold that great
Mario 64 is one of the best selling Mario games of all time isn’t it ?.
And Love the way you overlook the main reason why we had a view change in Chinatown in the 1st place , nothing at all to do with the DS poor spec ?, No… of course it isn’t .
It doesn’t matter the machine tech ,o ne should be expecting the same experience . I think a lot part of the poor sales of ChinaTown is that it didn’t give the gameplay experience, that the GTA fans have now got to use too, that and the trouble, that all 3rd party games face on NCL machines ,
I don’t think the GTA series have ever sold that well on the GBA, and the NCL fans have never had a Major GTA on their come consoles (None HH) either. These have to be factored in . As for the PSP port , I really doubt PSP users woul much care for a DS knock off , that came out months latter when they’ve already got 2 GTA games, that give the ‘Same’ experience of the 3D versions , would you ?
You’ve never played Too Human, I take it .
And you can bet , that most games outsource in one form or another these days . I’m pretty sure that some of the Motion Capture and Voice work in FF 13 , was outsorced for example
And we played have we it ? . That’s great , since its not even out yet (and well all know you don’t speak Japanese) , not on a PC either . Cever that, I must say
It seems you can’t even understand what you replied to.
MH is but one game, yes, but it’s not the only game that sells or has sold good on PSP. Several titles have been mentioned, even in the last comment alone (or in the very first comments, like Tekken: DR, the GTA games, PSP, God Eater), if you read the following paragraph instead of so “cleverly” ignore it. Again, you’re twisting even what Abadd, who you agree with, said, since Abadd implied piracy is not as much of an issue in Japan, yet here we are talking about Valkyria Chronicles 2 which has only had a Japanese release, or about games that flopped both in Japan and the West.
So, like I said, you, like a normal person, don’t like all video games, so why are people expected to like all PSP titles, so that VC2, GT, and all the others sells as good as other games? It’s absurd, that was my point, I’m glad you almost understood it.
As for my respose to Abadd that you felt like replying to, you don’t even understand what I wrote, even though it’s perfectly clear, so please just don’t respond next time: I didn’t say more money makes game X better than game Y, I said it makes game X better than game X if game X had less money than it did. With less money FFXIII would have less CG, less music, less gameplay content (or all of that in lower quality), because there simply wouldn’t be enough resources to include everything the game currently has in the same manner. That is the reason Square choose to spend that much money, instead of push out the game in half the time, with half the staff, yet expect the same reception.
I did not say FFXIII is a GOOD or a BAD game on any preset quality scale, so no, I don’t need to play it since I was making a hypothetical explanation since proof is impossible for such a discussion considering we can never have two versions of the same exact game, one with a given budget and one with half that budget, yet the same design.
And no, Super Mario 64 has sold about 11 million units (about as much as Super Mario Bros. 2), whereas, for comparison’s sake, Super Mario Bros. sold over 40, Super Mario World over 20, New Super Mario Bros. DS over 20, Super Mario Bros. 3 over 18, etc. But hey, I suppose 64 could be the exception to the rule as well.
It isn’t though is it , The mod Scene has never been that big in Japan , in Europe its always been big , thanks to machines like ST and Amiga and that culture as that carried on . Japan has its own issues and problems like shirking Market, and Market that tends to be dominated by 1 machine or 1 game .
But that’s been a issue for years now .
Pretty much every Western PSP game sell poor now doesn’t it .
To that I would say , why did you buy a PSP inthe 1st place, if not to play games on it ?.
I’l ask again , how do you know its not the best game ever ?, You played it?, all the way through … right till the end ?. If the answer is no , then you can’t make such a comment .
Now learn to play the game , that make such a nice change
I’l say again , Mario 64 is one of the best selling Mario games of all time
I don’t know, I’ve never been in Japan, I just pointed out that we’re talking about Western piracy yet you had me discussing Japanese games, or games that flopped worldwide, and finally back down only when you’ve run out of stupid arguments.
Again, GTA (not CW)… Short term memory? As for other games, well, most tend to suck, like AC, or have little appeal, like CW, and all those other games we discussed previously… No reason to start talking about that all over again…
To buy the games that appeal to them, like MH, GE, GTA, and so on and so forth, not all.
Again, I didn’t say it’s not the best game ever, or that it’s a good game, or that it’s a bad game. I was talking about the effect the budget can have on a game, and that while the budget alone won’t make something the best game ever, it at least makes it a better overall product than if it didn’t have that budget. I don’t see why you make me spell every little thing out when it’s already so clear.
We’re not blaming it all down to Piracy , like you say Learn to Read .
And I really doubt people are buying a PSP , to play GTA on it.
No you’ve been found out yet again , making a wide swiping statement on a game you have yet to play, or even can play . Learn To Play The Game , then by all means say “that didn’t make it the best game ever”.
Feel free to have all the doubts you want, again, plenty of PSP games have sold good, not just MH or GTA, we’ve already gone through that, and PSP’s popularity isn’t so hot as it only currently sells better than the PS2, not the actually current systems (despite the better than PS3 install base). It’s no surprise software sales aren’t among the best if interest is dwindling, especially when the majority of games are like those we discussed already, and likely actually aid that loss of interest.
Give it a rest. Found out because you can’t comprehend a simple sentence? And what’s it to you anyway? Maybe I don’t like JRPGs so much so a JRPG can never be the best game ever to me. You can call that an educated guess if you want, something every normal person can do. A game will never be 100% objectively judged after all. How does that mean anything for this discussion? But no, I never said anything about how good FFXIII is or isn’t, you’re just grasping at straws as usual.
The PSP is one of the best selling systems of all time , yet you can probably count the amount of Million plus sellers on one pair of hands , everyone knows software sales are poor , and it has massive issues with Piracy even SONY have come and said so.
You only have to go into the shops , to see the that the PSP isn’t getting great retail support ( a sure sign Software sales aren’t great) and the fact that the PSP GO is getting outsold by the older Model , just paints a more depressing picture .
And as for the last part , just don’t say " that didn’t make it the best game ever". Giving the clear impression you played it , never mind JRPG’s aren’t your thing now its seems . So why you like to the praise the DS and its list of RPG’s, I don’t know 
The concept of hypothetical statements clearly escapes you. I also like PDS, you know, so yes, I obviously do enjoy JRPGs, at least some of them. I was simply stating you cannot know my personal preferences. And once again, I didn’t say it’s not the best game ever, and didn’t make any comment about its quality. Even if I did, there’s 99.9% chance I was right. But I didn’t. I was clearly discussing the effect the budget can have on a game in relation to the same game with less money spent on it, while acknowledging money alone will not also make it a better game than other titles since development conditions will differ. This is the third or fourth time I explain this and you keep grasping at straws.
I never said PSP software sales as a whole are great, I merely said there are several titles in the history (recent history as well, like MH) of the PSP that sold great (great isn’t only past the million mark depending on the title) so developers should try and figure out what made people buy those, so that future games can sell as well, instead of keep putting out titles from their c and d string teams or make questionable design choices or even questionable choices over what games should be put on the portable and then wonder why they don’t sell. Plenty titles became succesful despite piracy and it’s up to everyone else to try and do the same. If the software is lackluster like AC or even if it’s a good game that simply doesn’t appeal to the mainstream like VC then not many will buy it even if it’s impossible to pirate, hence why VC didn’t sell on the piracy free PS3 either, hence why VC2 didn’t sell even in Japan where you claim piracy isn’t a major issue.
The Go is a joke of an SKU hence it sells lower than the previous models, it has little to do with this discussion. Even Sony didn’t make it to replace the older models considering they keep manufacturing and selling them alongside it. The fact it offers less but costs more is quite absurd and thankfully consumers didn’t fall for it. It should also be noted that even retailers weren’t all that happy with the device considering it’s basically designed to take software sales from them since it can only play games downloaded from Sony, and not sold through stores. That probably had some effect in its downward spiral.
Just adding that Ubi’s DRM has already been cracked and pirates all over the world can play Silent Hunter V (which uses the same system as AC2 will) just fine, while paying customers lose progress and get their experience interrupted every time their internet connection happens to crap out for any reason. This includes today’s 1.1 patch which was also cracked within minutes of release. Resources well spent in putting off potential customers and not affecting pirates in the least. Good job. Maybe they’ll some day catch up with the music industry who realised intrusive DRM doesn’t work out years ago.
Ubisoft claims the pirated version of the game isn’t complete, it"ll remain to be seen if that statement is true. I can imagine certain parts of the game have to be streamed and without internet connection those can’t be accessed, but even if that’s the case it’s probably not difficult to circumvent.
Thanks for updates Alex and D-Unit. It will be interesting to hear what content is missing from the pirated version and how Ubisoft (and the pirates) will go about distributing this.
Seeing how people are posting Youtube videos showing the pirated version crashing at certain points, Ubisoft’s statements seem to be valid. As I thought, the DRM functions very much like an MMORPG would and needs to download parts of the game. The crack disables that, but that means the game is incomplete. This probably won’t be trivial to circumvent, as a crack would either have to contain the missing parts or fool the server into thinking they’re running a legit copy.
There are conflicting reports, the game itself seems to be buggy and crashing for people with legit copies as well, while for many pirates it works. There’s also been a new crack to go alongside the game’s patch. There may as well be borked cracked copies distributed (even by Ubisoft), it wouldn’t be the first time.
It’s still different to a MMORPG. Ubi merely seem to have withheld certain content from the disc to be downloaded while you play (likely not significant content since they say a 50kb/s connection is required). It may be as simple as getting one legit copy and acquiring the files it downloads for further distribution in regards to Silent Hunter V. AC2 has been told to crash at a certain early point while for now it’s being bypassed by acquiring later save points, as it’s only the tutorial section that is skipped that way.
Edit: checking the comments under the most popular Silent Hunter V torrent on pirate bay it appears to be fully functional. I’m sure it will cleared up next week, but for now it seems that the people reporting issues were simply too hasty and didn’t follow the exact instructions provided (which aren’t anything special from the sound of it, just not the usual procedure). The game apparently needs to be run directly from the crack and not a shortcut, and for whatever reason that makes a difference. Most seem to have figured it out, but it’s not like I’m gonna download it myself to verify, complaints have mostly died down while various people are posting the solution and reporting positive results.