The same or different empires?

I was having a look through Panzer Dragoon Orta’s encyclopaedia, and the implication (in some places) is that it was the same Empire throughout all four Panzer games. It probably doesn’t matter too much, but for the purposes of semantic accuracy (as far as possible), it might be better if TWOTA’s encyclopaedia has just one article for “The Empire” faction, with a separate entry for the “Southern Peoples” faction. “Trueness” to the game lore is the objective here.

Reasons to refer to it as the same empire:

Southern Peoples:

The Empire was quick to seize the opportunity. The Empire was without an army, and the islanders were without leaders. At that point, an alliance seemed to be the only logical solution.

So, same leaders in both empires.

An interesting side effect of the sudden influx of this new island culture was the effect it had on industrial design in the “new” Empire.

“new” in quotes, suggesting that it wasn’t really new.


And several decades after the Great Fall, the military power of an immigrant race from across the southern sea served as the key to the re-establishment of the Empire. The 8th Emperor, said to be a descendant of the Imperial bloodline, served as the symbol of imperial continuity, and the armies began the task of reunification under his name.

Being referred to as the 8th Emperor, rather than the 1st Emperor of the new empire is an indicator that it is the same Empire.

Reasons to refer to them as different empires:

The Great Fall:

A period of great change, the world was in upheaval with the fall of the former Empire.


The previous Empire dissolved in a series of events-the death of the 7th Emperor, destruction of the imperial fortress Grig Orig, and the obliteration of the Imperial Capital-often referred to as the Great Fall, and the continent was plunged into chaos, ruled by several small, warring powers. But even amidst the destruction, the Imperial Academy survived, with its accumulated knowledge intact.

Ultimately it seems to be similar to (1) Germany -> (2) East/West Germany -> (3) Germany again. Are (1) and (3) the same country?

Sounds like there is more evidence to suggest they are the same… Or at least a continuation.

Perhaps I was more biased back in the day, not wanted to accept the new style was part of the old game!

It seems the old armies of the previous Empire were scattered and then reorganized under the 8th Emperor. Probably, enough previous soldiers and Imperials to keep or reaffirm the old traditions…

Yes, I think that possibility is likely if you didn’t like the new style. We also tend to base “sameness” on visual appearance.

They are different because of disparate cultures. The old Imperial aristocrats thought they could use the immigrants as soldiers, but the immigrants ended up being beyond their control.

The prevailing ideology is the same, however: efficiency.

I can’t help but feel that this story was designed to parallel the situation in the U.S. at the moment.

Interesting you should say that. There were hints of conflict between the two factions in the encyclopaedia, but we never saw that play out. I’d say the control was still there throughout Panzer Dragoon Orta at least.

How so?

Immigration is a huge topic in the U.S. at the moment. It’s a similar situation. Orta made it seem as if the Empire really needed the immigrants. Whether you agree or disagree.

The cultures themselves were disparate. In the end, it was a mutually beneficial relationship.

Another issue with calling them “The Old Empire” and “The New Empire” is that the former could be mistaken for the Ancients. These names are never used in the series, so encyclopaedia entries for “The Empire” and “Southern Peoples” instead might be truer to the games. I’m undecided.

Edit: This is similar to the same dragon/different dragons issue. In the end we decided to go with a single entry called “The Dragon”.

Alternatively, we keep it as two separate entries to mark the distinct cultures, but use clearer names. E.g. “The Empire (Pre-Great Fall)” and “The Empire (Post-Great Fall)”.

I like this idea best. They are definitely not quite the same empires in spirit. I see your point though. The “New Empire” is more like a reset than a continuation.

I’ve updated the entry names to “The Empire (Pre-Great Fall)” and “The Empire (Post-Great Fall)”. There will likely be some broken links in the encyclopaedia, so let me know if you see any (or fix them yourself if you have access).